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    i agree. if we all had our sperate governments, then wed all be happy. i dont want to break off from england and scotland or anything, i just think we could do alot better by ourselves, but still debated things and criticse eachother decision. if the national party of wales had power, id be all for scottish and english people giving us ideas, but we should have the final say. i also think there should be more public votes about top up fees and things like that
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    i hope to see you in 2006 too!! i find football championships alot of fun if your home countrys involved. even if you lose you get a lot of tension and laughs!
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    (Original post by andrew_200)
    well why wont they give the natinal assembly for wales more powerful then, or give us better hospital treatment. youve seen the statistics on the tv, the english do well better for hospitals than wales do!!

    why dont they just let us do what we want to do and give us power?????

    im not saying all english people areracist but alot are, and theyre bigheaded enough to say it on tv aswell.they go all crazy over wayne rooney but when theres an amazing welsh football player like rob earnshaw they just say hes **** and call us sheepshaggers!!
    Did you see the number of people who were pro-devolution in Wales?

    Talking about breaking off, you don't seem to be informed of the rest of your nation's stance. Wales and England have a common history.
    I mean look at countries like Italy and Germany that haven't even been around for more than 200 years. And we're still bickering about the fact that 1000 years ago we were separate countries. We all have different cultures just as different regions in countries like Germany and Italy have totally different cultures.
    It's only in the UK that you get all these people moaning.
    You're welsh good for you but what would you gain from being separate from the rest of the country? You'd want to reject 700 years of your history just because you can't get over the fact that England is bigger than Wales. England doesn't even have a national assembly so why are you complaining about Wales not having one that's powerful enough?
    If you actually thought about the interest of the whole of the UK, instead of worrying about Wales, then you might get some where. Why doesn't everyone have a government in their own house because otherwise, the government might not look at you first?
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    i said i want wales to have more power. and where does all this bull come from that english should rule us just because there bigger than us?i dont want a complete seperation, no-one in wales does, we just want to make sum decisions for ouselves, instead of having sum englishmen sitting in parliament giving better health services to england rather than wales!
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    (Original post by SamTheMan)
    It's probably due to historical reasons: football was created in the UK and the first "international" matches were between different British nations: Wales v Ireland was the first ever international match. They just kept the tradition.
    England v Scotland in 1872 wasn't it?
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    Something similar to that yes .
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    (Original post by Chrism)
    England v Scotland in 1872 wasn't it?
    ]

    That's right. I got it mixed up with another match between Ireland and Wales.
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    Scotland should be called a state,a country or a nation anyway ?
    :confused:
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    I was prepared, as a Scot and on a rational basis, to support England in Euro 2004. Halfway into the France match, I was cheering for Zidane. It was those bloody flags on the cars that did it.

    Taking verbal pot shots at the English and opposing their football team are part of Scottish culture, and they can be harmless fun - rivalry often is! (although the Scottish team is nothing like a 'rival' to the English one at the moment - hence my 'rational decision' to support England above). Xenophobia and blaming the English for Scotland's problems (this does happen - one of the reasons I'm glad I moved to England is that I was never exposed to that in my more 'vulnerable' periods) is something that should be opposed at every opportunity.
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    (Original post by andrew_200)
    i said i want wales to have more power. and where does all this bull come from that english should rule us just because there bigger than us?i dont want a complete seperation, no-one in wales does, we just want to make sum decisions for ouselves, instead of having sum englishmen sitting in parliament giving better health services to england rather than wales!
    The trouble with your view is that you don't have the right vision of the UK. English don't rule you, the British government does. Sadly, the English are more numerous than the Welsh.
    Actually your statement would sound more exact coming from an Englishman. He can complain about the fact the Scottish and Welsh MPs deal with their issues, while they don't even have their own national assembly!
    So why doesn't my little town in the West Midlands have its own national assembly? I don't want the rest of the UK making decisions on matters concerning me. This statement is pushed to the extreme but it kind of resembles your statement. If you could just accept that our state is not called England, it's not called Scotland or Wales or Ireland. It's called the United Kingdom and as long as British people are governing British people we're ok.
    And saying that English MPs give better health services to England is a bit weird. How can they? The number of English MPs is proportionate to the number of people in England.


    (Original post by Acaila)
    And I don't see what's wrong with voting for nationalist parties (providing it's not the British one!). I just feel that they should have a lot more policies. I always used to feel that the SNP were all about independence and nothing else. (With John Swinney in charge, I feel they're not about independence at all but that's a whole other can of worms).
    A nationalist party is a nationalist party. You might not want to compare the BNP to the SNP but the BNP is a nationalist party on the British level, whereas the SNP only concerns Scotland. There have been many complaints about the low number of immigrants in Scotland and several inhabitants of the Isle of Skye complained that English people and foreigners were buying houses there. That is racism in its purest form. It's just some people think it's acceptable to make comments like that when it's Scotland.
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    (Original post by alibaba)
    Scotland should be called a state,a country or a nation anyway ?
    :confused:
    Scotland can be called a nation, as it is. It isn't a state though. The UK is the only official state. It has a political status outside the UK.

    You could say it's a country. But using that word is dangerous as it has so many meanings. It can be considered a country culturally. Just as for example, Acadia (displaced French-speaking communities in North America which comprise New Brunswick, part of New England and Louisiana) and Tibet are countries. However it's not a country in the UN sense of the term, like the USA or France. Nationalists love to confuse people with the word "country".
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    (Original post by SamTheMan)
    Scotland can be called a nation, as it is. It isn't a state though. The UK is the only official state. It has a political status outside the UK.

    and Tibet are countries.
    why do you call Tibet a country anyway ???
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    (Original post by SamTheMan)
    A nationalist party is a nationalist party. You might not want to compare the BNP to the SNP but the BNP is a nationalist party on the British level, whereas the SNP only concerns Scotland. There have been many complaints about the low number of immigrants in Scotland and several inhabitants of the Isle of Skye complained that English people and foreigners were buying houses there. That is racism in its purest form. It's just some people think it's acceptable to make comments like that when it's Scotland.
    Didn't I just compare the two? Although the BNP really are too extreme to be a comparison. The SNP get less extreme by the second.
    I don't know where you hear about this low number of immigrants thing but from what I know it doesn't seem to be true. Even in my own small town for instance, there are a few hundred Iraqi refugees, and there are few complaints about them. Scotland seems to be a lot more welcoming to immigrants than England. We have nowhere near the same NIMBY mentality, otherwise why would there have been such outrage over the Dungavel detention centre.
    And the Isle of Skye reference isn't racism (although Islanders are notoriously cliquey, even concerning other Scots. Several anecdotes to back that one up but I can't be bothered typing them right now.). People object to those not from the area buying holiday homes, because it takes houses out of circulation so first time buyers from the area cannot afford them, thus having to move out of the area, thus aggravating depopulation which is a serious problem in places like Skye. Also, if the houses are only in use for a small part of the year, there are few economic benefits for the area compared to someone buying it and living there and contributing economically and culturally to the area. And I have heard of many similar conflicts like this in both England and Wales so this is not Scottish racism at all.
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    (Original post by andrew_200)
    i am welsh and i woz yelling my head off when portugal won!!!!

    no-one in my school likes the english because they are so big headed and think there the best at everything. they are also racist to us, like clive woodwood and that police superintendant
    So one a few people spoil it totally? Yes I have read his lyrics and are you totally convinced the way you interpreted them are his intentions? Do you hate Eminem because he's sung a lot more controversial lyrics than that policeman did? We may all have words for each other but at least we're not as hostile as in Nothern Ireland, thankfully.

    BTW on the sheep note, you're not the only country who gets that, New Zealand do too.

    (Original post by sublime_envy)
    yes we have our on parliment but that in itself comes with problems such as the building of the new parliment in scotland that is now over budget by £300 million and the cost is still rising to the taxpayer. Yet they have perfectly good old residences that they could have used. I do agree however that some people take it over the top, but generally I find these people just look for a fight
    What a waste of money. And I hear Eurosceptics complain the amount of money we give to Brussels....

    (Original post by MadNatSci)
    Well actually... what bugs me is that we are. The top up fees vote was only passed because some Scottish Labour MPs voted for it. Does that not strike you as a trifle unfair? The Scottish Parliament won't introduce the legislation north of the border but their MPs are able to influence decisions affecting hundreds of thousands of English students. By all means let the Scots have their own parliament - I'm all for it, I think it's a great idea - but I think it's daft that they should also control what happens to the English when it's nowt to do with them... Why can't we have properly separate government, if that's what people want? Also, if English people aren't allowed to be SMPs then surely Scots shouldn't be Westminster MPs... Just my controversial twopence

    As for supporting England.. well, everyone's entitled to support whomsoever they wish of course but as an Englishwoman I know I cheered like hell for Wales when they beat Italy and I'm always wishing that Scotland would be able to qualify for major championships... Hope to meet you in Germany 2006!
    Strange how this has happened and I'm surprised it hasn't been outlawed. Why is it classed as racist when this Manchester policeman charged a black tax but does not work on the English? I thought race relations issues dealt with nationality too. If and when I become a qualified barrister shall I charge Scottish clients twice as the English? I bet that won't be permittable.

    I've no idea why English people cannot be SMPs. Surely it's best to try and rake in the best possible people to do the job, irrespective of their 'nationality'?

    Also I when I visited Trinity College this Scottishwoman told me that you can have one Scot accuse another Scot of being a sheep. Presumably Scots from rural areas? I have a friend who's Scottish and ages ago when I asked where she's fro mand guesses certain parts of Scotland like Glasgow she was like noooo etc So it seems what England does to Scotland and Wales happens within Scotland as well.
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    What a waste of money. And I hear Eurosceptics complain the amount of money we give to Brussels....
    Most people think that Holyrood’s biggest failure is the enormous cost of the new Holyrood building - apparently an international architectural sensation in the making - and they have a point, except that it is misplaced. The fact is that Holyrood’s costs are probably not all that scandalous. The real scandal was the deliberate under-estimating of the cost when the WESTMINSTER government first put a figure on it.
    “Between 10 million and 40 million" predicted Donald Dewar in his white paper on home rule. We now know he hadn’t a clue about the cost because the wife of Enric Mirrales, designer of Holyrood, has since made clear the figure was invented before the plans were even approved.



    I've no idea why English people cannot be SMPs. Surely it's best to try and rake in the best possible people to do the job, irrespective of their 'nationality'?
    Because there is nothing that goes on at Holyrood that affects England! How many times have I said that?

    Also I when I visited Trinity College this Scottishwoman told me that you can have one Scot accuse another Scot of being a sheep. Presumably Scots from rural areas? I have a friend who's Scottish and ages ago when I asked where she's fro mand guesses certain parts of Scotland like Glasgow she was like noooo etc So it seems what England does to Scotland and Wales happens within Scotland as well.
    Scotland are a nation of *****es. And proud of it!

    Finally, a survey around the time of the last Scottish elections showed that given the chance, only 13% of Scots would like things to go back to the way they were before devolution. That’s considerably fewer than voted against the parliament in the first place.
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    Because there is nothing that goes on at Holyrood that affects England! How many times have I said that?
    But what if you had a prospective politician who was born in England and moved to Scotland for family reasons and wanted to give his own local people a say. However, he can't because he was born in England and not entitled to be an SMP. Yet someone born in Fife can become a Westminster MP and not have a clue about English matters. Does this apply?
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    I think that is possible actually.

    And it's MSP not SMP if you don't mind.
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    (Original post by Acaila)
    I think that is possible actually.

    And it's MSP not SMP if you don't mind.
    Sorry, a typo
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    Well the first time I gave you the benefit of the doubt then I started to wonder
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    (Original post by Acaila)
    Well the first time I gave you the benefit of the doubt then I started to wonder
    LOL.
 
 
 
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