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I'm a Muslim girl I don't want to fall for him ( non muslim) advice? Watch

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    (Original post by popo111)
    God has given the absolute interpretation of the Quran to the Prophets and certain pure descendants.

    You may ask then, why are there different interpretations of the Quran today?... very simple, some followed and obeyed the Prophet and God, whilst others didn't.
    Which one is the right interpretation? Which sect is the true sect, even though all claim to be (except I don't Sufis "claim" anything)? Which empire in history had "perfect sharia" according to the perfect "absolute interpretation"...? Are there any objective measures that we can compare to, or is it "whatever feels right"

    If we consider what you are saying, the only true has to be Salafi as they are the only one claiming that the 7th century interpretation (how the prophet left it) is the only true interpretation as it is emulating the Prophet and his followes and other ones have been "corrupted by 1000 years of Bidah, religious innovation" - and I hope you're not saying Salafi is the true interpretation, it's a disgusting interpretation imo.
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    (Original post by Squishy™)
    ... no it's not?
    The interpretations of the quran aren't disputed that much, it's whether you follow certain people and which hadith you follow. Maybe little things about moving your finger in prayer and things like that but there are specifics in the quran which have to be followed. Basically the main course is the quran and the side dishes are everything else if you know what i mean.
    Yes it is. I'm afraid I have disagree with you. IMO the Quran is a load of repetitive assertions and vague laws and sentences (filled in with some narrative - some of those are unspecific), but I understand you wouldn't think that.

    Why are there different schools of laws, and so many different sects (on a spectrum of Liberal to ultra-conservative), all claiming to be the true one? The differences are a lot more than just "pointing fingers" and "waving hands".

    I don't agree with your main course analogy, as a lot of laws are based and backed up by the hadith and narration from "famous Islamic Scholars"... If anything, the Quran is just a "starter" that warms you up and points you to a direction of a certain law.

    I am also curious, where does it say in the Quran that muslim women cannot marry non-muslim men?
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    (Original post by chemting)
    Yes it is. I'm afraid I have disagree with you. IMO the Quran is a load of repetitive assertions and vague laws and sentences (filled in with some narrative - some of those are unspecific), but I understand you wouldn't think that.

    Why are there different schools of laws, and so many different sects (on a spectrum of Liberal to ultra-conservative), all claiming to be the true one? The differences are a lot more than just "pointing fingers" and "waving hands".

    I don't agree with your main course analogy, as a lot of laws are based and backed up by the hadith and narration from "famous Islamic Scholars"... If anything, the Quran is just a "starter" that warms you up and points you to a direction of a certain law.

    I am also curious, where does it say in the Quran that muslim women cannot marry non-muslim men?
    If you are sincerely looking for truth you will find it with time and patience, when you have looked in to the religion properly instead of a few things you've read here and there, you will find the truth with no contradictions, but if you are just here to speculate with no genuine interest then please stop your hate and offensive comments. It's not tolerable. Please maintain respect just like you would want people to respect you and what you deem important. Also don't generalise look for specific legit evidence. With proper context and understanding.
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    (Original post by popo111)
    The point of dating non muslims is more to do with the children, and the impact on their life. They may see one of their parents forbidding alcohol and pork, whilst the other eats it. They see one of their parents praying, and not the other. Also, if the faith of the muslim is lacking, then marrying a non muslim may exacebate the problem. One reason for marriage (in our belief) is that both husband and wife can help improve themselves spiritually (and thus morally as well). But don't get me wrong here, to me a good decent non muslim, is better than a muslim that always prays but is like a tyrant (oppressive).

    Sorry, but do you have evidence for the claim of 'women can't speak to men but men can speak to women'? Frankly, both can speak to each other but they just to remember their boundaries (in fact, it's incumbent for the male to lower his gaze with regards to women).

    Actually, men cannot 'wear whatever they want to', they still must cover parts of their body. I understand that you seem quite upset in your post, and honestly if I was in your position, then perhaps I would feel the same (at some of the 'so called Islamic beliefs' here)
    I've read the Qu'ran and quite a few Hadiths in an attempt to better understand both sides of the situation in regards to the whole terrorism thing and multiculturalism. It does say in the 'an-Nur' chapter (I forget which verse) that women must cover their heads at all times, but no such thing is said about men.

    You're right about it saying that men must lower their gaze when talking to women, it also says that women must do the same when talking to men. I do recall reading that women can't initiate conversations with men in one of the Hadiths though.

    I have to ask, why is it such a big deal if a Muslim has doubts? They have the right to make up their own mind about whether God/Allah exists or not, trying to force someone back into the religion is so cruel! The same applies to the kids. If they want to be Muslim fair enough, if not that's fine too. As long as they're good people does it really matter in the end?
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    (Original post by StrawbAri)
    Does this apply to all boys or just non Muslims?
    All.
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    (Original post by chemting)
    Which one is the right interpretation? Which sect is the true sect, even though all claim to be (except I don't Sufis "claim" anything)? Which empire in history had "perfect sharia" according to the perfect "absolute interpretation"...? Are there any objective measures that we can compare to, or is it "whatever feels right"

    If we consider what you are saying, the only true has to be Salafi as they are the only one claiming that the 7th century interpretation (how the prophet left it) is the only true interpretation as it is emulating the Prophet and his followes and other ones have been "corrupted by 1000 years of Bidah, religious innovation" - and I hope you're not saying Salafi is the true interpretation, it's a disgusting interpretation imo.
    I have never even mentioned Salafi sect (I'm not sure how you arrived at the conclusion that Salafism is the way the prophet acted (fully).

    The Prophet, along with the Quran has made it clear who to follow. As you may/should know, the main sects of Islam arrived after the death of the Prophet, where some believed that the Prophet appointed a successor and others thought that the prophet would actually leave his followers alone without a leader. However, there are hadiths in both of these sects (Sunni and Shia) which really tell us who is 'correct'. Eg:

    The Prophet said that I leave 2 weighty things for you, the Quran and My Ahlulbayt (Family of the Prophet) (x3). If you follow them, you will never go astray (Sahih Muslim).

    Another one which refers to how there will be 12 leaders after the Prophet (only one of the sects follow this to my knowledge).

    Thus, in my humble opinion, the truth is clear.
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    (Original post by Wafaas)
    If you are sincerely looking for truth you will find it with time and patience, when you have looked in to the religion properly instead of a few things you've read here and there, you will find the truth with no contradictions, but if you are just here to speculate with no genuine interest then please stop your hate and offensive comments. It's not tolerable. Please maintain respect just like you would want people to respect you and what you deem important. Also don't generalise look for specific legit evidence. With proper context and understanding.
    Woah there. All Chemting did was ask some questions. He/she said nothing offensive/hateful at all. Besides, you have no right to tell people that they can't speculate on this topic. You're just one of 7 billion other human beings, keep that in mind please.

    As I said above, I've read the Qu'ran. Chemting's absolutely right. It's full of contradictions and also of verses encouraging violence towards non-Muslims, among many other very questionable things. It does have some good messages too though, I will give it that.

    I've also read many of the historical documents from around that time because I was and still am genuinely interested in human stupidity with regards to religion and pseudosciences. From those documents, it's obvious that the Qu'ran was written during a period of tension in the middle east, the Islamic empire was just getting it's start back then and it had the Byzantine's to contend with too, most of whom were christians. It's clear that those verses are a call to war, but at the time that's what was necessary. Nowadays they're not needed though so why you people insist on keeping them is beyond me.

    Do you see what I'm trying to demonstrate here? I've just revealed the Qu'ran's much darker nature and have provided a historical background for it too. However, I didn't say a single offensive thing about the Qu'ran. I merely stated facts about it from a purely objective point of view. There's a huge difference.

    Keep in mind that just because someone said some facts about the Qu'ran that you didn't like, it doesn't mean they have some agenda to push. Facts are facts, getting upset over them won't change that so you might as well accept them and move on.
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    (Original post by Peroxidation)
    I've read the Qu'ran and quite a few Hadiths in an attempt to better understand both sides of the situation in regards to the whole terrorism thing and multiculturalism. It does say in the 'an-Nur' chapter (I forget which verse) that women must cover their heads at all times, but no such thing is said about men.

    You're right about it saying that men must lower their gaze when talking to women, it also says that women must do the same when talking to men. I do recall reading that women can't initiate conversations with men in one of the Hadiths though.

    I have to ask, why is it such a big deal if a Muslim has doubts? They have the right to make up their own mind about whether God/Allah exists or not, trying to force someone back into the religion is so cruel! The same applies to the kids. If they want to be Muslim fair enough, if not that's fine too. As long as they're good people does it really matter in the end?
    Firstly, which hadiths did you read (you mentioned it at the start)?

    To my knowledge, women covering their head isn't mentioned in the Quran.

    Once again, although hadiths are relatively important, I would be careful as some have been fabricated. This notion that a women cannot initiate a conversation with a male is nonsense, many of the women of the Prophet's time (even his daughter who is regarded as one of the women of Paradise) conversed with men (of course with boundaries and modesty)). I don't agree with the 'so called hadith that you read'.

    Your last paragraph is very interesting (in a good way). Indeed, everyone must make their own decision whether to believe in a God or not (there's no compulsion in religion). However, the issue here is that the boundaries for a muslim isn't the same for a non muslim (in terms of the rules they abide by) and hence it's difficult to be married (eg the alcohol example). I also did mention how marriage is meant so that both husband and wife become more spiritual. It makes it easier as both parents will be believing the same thing, attending same events, can guide and help each other religiously.

    In my view, being a good person is one of the most important aims in life. In my belief, most people will end up in paradise after being cleansed for their sins (only fair). Many people attempt to refute this using verses with 'disbelievers' in it and then claim that as most people are disbelievers, most will never enter heaven. However, a disbeliever means kuffr, meaning to hide. Hence, a 'disbeliever' is one who knows the truth but still hides it. Hence, when the Prophet spread Islam and showed miracles, people knew this was the truth but still didn't accept; hence disbelievers. (Thus, this doesn't apply to everyone who isn't a muslim).

    To summarise, the most important thing for me is being a good person. You can be forgiven for sins (between you and God), but cannot be forgiven for your sins to another human unless they forgive you.
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    (Original post by Peroxidation)
    Woah there. All Chemting did was ask some questions. He/she said nothing offensive/hateful at all. Besides, you have no right to tell people that they can't speculate on this topic. You're just one of 7 billion other human beings, keep that in mind please.

    As I said above, I've read the Qu'ran. Chemting's absolutely right. It's full of contradictions and also of verses encouraging violence towards non-Muslims, among many other very questionable things. It does have some good messages too though, I will give it that.

    I've also read many of the historical documents from around that time because I was and still am genuinely interested in human stupidity with regards to religion and pseudosciences. From those documents, it's obvious that the Qu'ran was written during a period of tension in the middle east, the Islamic empire was just getting it's start back then and it had the Byzantine's to contend with too, most of whom were christians. It's clear that those verses are a call to war, but at the time that's what was necessary. Nowadays they're not needed though so why you people insist on keeping them is beyond me.

    Do you see what I'm trying to demonstrate here? I've just revealed the Qu'ran's much darker nature and have provided a historical background for it too. However, I didn't say a single offensive thing about the Qu'ran. I merely stated facts about it from a purely objective point of view. There's a huge difference.

    Keep in mind that just because someone said some facts about the Qu'ran that you didn't like, it doesn't mean they have some agenda to push. Facts are facts, getting upset over them won't change that so you might as well accept them and move on.
    I'm sorry but what you just 'proved' is not a fact and I didn't see anything that points to it. I'm not saying your not entitled to an opinion but before you state you know the facts I'd like see exactly where and how and on top of that I don't see how you can claim to understand the message of the Quran when you clearly missed the point. Each and every verse of the book was revealed to a certain moment in that time but still has its relavence which is learned through scholars who spend most of their lives learning even if they are born Arabic speaking, it's called Tafsir. So unless you speak and understand Arabic, which is a rich language I don't see how you can claim to know the facts from reading some 'documents' and one translation you have no full knowledge of. The translation is just that, one small meaning of each verse but not the whole meaning it's like only analysing a whole picture by just looking at one object of it and judging it according to that and ignoring the rest.

    Anyway please forgive me if I have offended you, I just want to advise you in a positive manner and raise your awareness to the complexity of our religion and not to take it at face value but really look in to it sincerely and not through the lense of being able to prove people stupid. Too much negativity is not good for your health and life.

    Peace.
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    This is the biggest problem with religion imo.
    Why is this even a thing?!?

    Be with whoever you want to be with. You have your own views, they have theirs.
    Don't let religion be a barrier to who you can be with.

    I know many muslims who have dated/currently date non-muslims. Go for it.
    If you two aren't compatible on other levels then that's fine but if it purely down to religion then don't let that stop you.

    This isn't the 12th century. Nothing bad will happen if you two get together.

    I'm not an atheist but religious nonsense like this makes me think i should be.

    Make yourself and other people happy in life. Be a 'good' person. End of.
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    (Original post by popo111)
    I have never even mentioned Salafi sect (I'm not sure how you arrived at the conclusion that Salafism is the way the prophet acted (fully).

    The Prophet, along with the Quran has made it clear who to follow. As you may/should know, the main sects of Islam arrived after the death of the Prophet, where some believed that the Prophet appointed a successor and others thought that the prophet would actually leave his followers alone without a leader. However, there are hadiths in both of these sects (Sunni and Shia) which really tell us who is 'correct'. Eg:

    The Prophet said that I leave 2 weighty things for you, the Quran and My Ahlulbayt (Family of the Prophet) (x3). If you follow them, you will never go astray (Sahih Muslim).

    Another one which refers to how there will be 12 leaders after the Prophet (only one of the sects follow this to my knowledge).

    Thus, in my humble opinion, the truth is clear.
    You have said "absolute interpretation of the Quran to the Prophets" without really explaining what "absolute interpretation" means... I only said Salafi as an example because they claim to be the "absolute, fundamentalist, literalist" interpretation in the spirit that the Quran was written. However, do you then accept all the "religious innovations" done by the Ottoman empire and other dynasties?
    You can have vague hadith stories to justify your sect but most of the sects claim that they follow the Quran, the prophet and the hadiths... (except for the Quranists, who reject the authority of the Hadith as it was influenced by culture). And all the relevant sects (more that just Sunni/Shia) have hadiths that support them.

    Again, that is another vague Quran verse... your "truth" has been made "clear", but I don't think you can objectively define the "clear truth".

    PS: Does it say in the Quran that Muslim women cannot marry non-Muslim men? I'm genuinely curious.
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    (Original post by Wafaas)
    If you are sincerely looking for truth you will find it with time and patience, when you have looked in to the religion properly instead of a few things you've read here and there, you will find the truth with no contradictions, but if you are just here to speculate with no genuine interest then please stop your hate and offensive comments. It's not tolerable. Please maintain respect just like you would want people to respect you and what you deem important. Also don't generalise look for specific legit evidence. With proper context and understanding.
    What an unique and original response! I've never heard this sort of response before.
    There is obviously no generalisation going on whilst you lump me in with Fox News/Daily Mail Trump supporting Ann Coulterites who wants to deport all Muslims...

    "please stop your hate and offensive comments. It's not tolerable." - Why are you entitled to believe that a certain idea is beyond criticism? I can defend your right to belief but I can wholly reject and criticise the belief itself. In return, you can criticise my ideas and "beliefs" (or lack of) without resorting to superstitious assertions in the Quran about the "non-believers".

    "With proper context and understanding" - that is my original point! who defines what is "proper"?

    I dislike Reza Aslan and Aslan media, but I would strongly recommend Muslims to read this: http://www.aslanmedia.com/aslan-medi...s-we-can. Also, observe all the triggered self-righteous conservative Muslims in the comment section trying to refute the "liberal interpretation" of the author. Please don't accuse me of "not knowing the truth" when its obvious that the Islamic community can't resolve the issue of "true Islam" themselves.
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    (Original post by chemting)
    You have said "absolute interpretation of the Quran to the Prophets" without really explaining what "absolute interpretation" means... I only said Salafi as an example because they claim to be the "absolute, fundamentalist, literalist" interpretation in the spirit that the Quran was written. However, do you then accept all the "religious innovations" done by the Ottoman empire and other dynasties?
    You can have vague hadith stories to justify your sect but most of the sects claim that they follow the Quran, the prophet and the hadiths... (except for the Quranists, who reject the authority of the Hadith as it was influenced by culture). And all the relevant sects (more that just Sunni/Shia) have hadiths that support them.

    Again, that is another vague Quran verse... your "truth" has been made "clear", but I don't think you can objectively define the "clear truth".

    PS: Does it say in the Quran that Muslim women cannot marry non-Muslim men? I'm genuinely curious.
    Any religious innovation is not allowed.

    By absolute interpretation, I mean that as God is the exclusive author of the Quran, only He knows what each verse means and how they should be interpreted. This was given to the Prophets.

    I'm not sure how the hadiths are vague, they explictly state that anyone who doesn't follow the Quran and Ahlulbayt will go astray, and those who follow both will never go astray. Research for yourself which Muslims follow both of these.

    The clear truth is the message that God gave to the Prophets, who gave it to their descendants (hence Ahlulbayt).

    Yes the Quran does in fact state who to marry (Are you asking to evidence or just asking generally?)

    Hope this helps
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    (Original post by popo111)
    Any religious innovation is not allowed.
    Nice splash of Salafism there... The Ottoman Empire went through a series of "reformations" starting in the 18th century, some these included decriminalising homosexuality, getting rid of apostasy laws, emancipation of slaves etc. The Salafis at the time (or pro-Wahab factions) and some Ottoman soldiers saw these as bad "bidah". Would you say they were religious innovations?

    (Original post by popo111)
    By absolute interpretation, I mean that as God is the exclusive author of the Quran, only He knows what each verse means and how they should be interpreted. This was given to the Prophets.
    Clearly there seems to be no objective way of determining this, as various sects/schools of laws interpret it differently. If "only He knows", then how do you know?

    (Original post by popo111)
    I'm not sure how the hadiths are vague, they explictly state that anyone who doesn't follow the Quran and Ahlulbayt will go astray, and those who follow both will never go astray. Research for yourself which Muslims follow both of these.
    Again how do you define who (or which sect) isn't following the Quran? and which people (or sects) have gone astray? By these standards, which sect is the right one?

    (Original post by popo111)
    The clear truth is the message that God gave to the Prophets, who gave it to their descendants (hence Ahlulbayt).
    It seems, in my opinion, that the God, or the prophets did such a bad job that noone can objectively define this. Islam has always needed an empire to propagate the "true" Islam (or the empire's Islam). It seems a very statist ideology.

    (Original post by popo111)
    Yes the Quran does in fact state who to marry (Are you asking to evidence or just asking generally?)
    Considering the OP, where does it say in the Quran that non-Muslim women cannot marry Muslim men?
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    (Original post by chemting)
    Nice splash of Salafism there... The Ottoman Empire went through a series of "reformations" starting in the 18th century, some these included decriminalising homosexuality, getting rid of apostasy laws, emancipation of slaves etc. The Salafis at the time (or pro-Wahab factions) and some Ottoman soldiers saw these as bad "bidah". Would you say they were religious innovations?



    Clearly there seems to be no objective way of determining this, as various sects/schools of laws interpret it differently. If "only He knows", then how do you know?



    Again how do you define who (or which sect) isn't following the Quran? and which people (or sects) have gone astray? By these standards, which sect is the right one?



    It seems, in my opinion, that the God, or the prophets did such a bad job that noone can objectively define this. Islam has always needed an empire to propagate the "true" Islam (or the empire's Islam). It seems a very statist ideology.



    Considering the OP, where does it say in the Quran that non-Muslim women cannot marry Muslim men?
    Ha, it's not exclusive salafism, it's an Islamic principle... You're just over complicating everything here, any religious practice that the Prophet commanded us to do, that has been changed is an innovation.

    I've already told you, there are various verses in the Quran and hadith (the ones that are accepted by majority of muslims) which tell us that the only ones who will never go astray are those who follow the Prophet and his family (successors).

    The various interpretations are a result of not following the correct meaning from God and who God has chosen.

    I disagree with your second to last paragraph, it's not a bad job, it's called people disobeying God's order. You cannot blame the religion for some of the followers. I'm not sure where this idea of Islam needed an 'empire' came from, I also disagree with this point.

    I'm not entirely sure that your criticisms of Islam are actually of the entire religion, but are of certain sects of the religion.
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    (Original post by popo111)
    Ha, it's not exclusive salafism, it's an Islamic principle... You're just over complicating everything here, any religious practice that the Prophet commanded us to do, that has been changed is an innovation.
    That is subject to interpretations, the prophet commanded a lot of things.
    Again I ask, the Ottoman Empire (under the guidance of the caliph) went through some reforms (e.g. the Tanzimat) mentioned above, which was very much inspired by European secular principles. Some people considered this "reform" bidah, do you consider them bidah? Note that these "some people" have a lot of influence in the Muslim world today.

    (Original post by popo111)
    I've already told you, there are various verses in the Quran and hadith (the ones that are accepted by majority of muslims) which tell us that the only ones who will never go astray are those who follow the Prophet and his family (successors).
    So the "right" interpretations are the ones that that are accepted by the majority? I can see why Pervez Hoodbhoy said "an Islamic State would be hell for minorities".

    (Original post by popo111)
    The various interpretations are a result of not following the correct meaning from God and who God has chosen.
    Yet you fail to define what "interpretation" is the correct "meaning" and what would constitute as "god choosing"...

    (Original post by popo111)
    I disagree with your second to last paragraph, it's not a bad job,
    No surprise there

    (Original post by popo111)
    it's called people disobeying God's order.
    And god has told you what his orders are?
    (Original post by popo111)
    You cannot blame the religion for some of the followers. I'm not sure where this idea of Islam needed an 'empire' came from, I also disagree with this point.
    Islam has always needed an empire. If you take Islam fully, it needs a state, it is not just a religion, it is a political ideology (a complete way of life, even Muslims admit this). Is it a surprise that after the fall of the Ottoman Empire, Islam has been choking like a fish out of water? I admit some Muslims like to keep their religion to a personal, but as you say "You cannot blame the religion for some of the followers"

    (Original post by popo111)
    I'm not entirely sure that your criticisms of Islam are actually of the entire religion, but are of certain sects of the religion.
    Well both, I have issues with the claim of One True Interpretation, and having a Unified Ummah, for a True Islamic State. I don't think such a state has ever existed (or will), or there will ever be an Unified Ummah.

    Besides, where does it say in the Quran that muslim women cannot marry non-Muslim guys?
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    As'alamualaikum sister, Try your best to stay away from him..when you see him just keep your gaze low. Make sure to pray Authoobillahi minashaytaan nirajeem - It may be shaytaan whispering to you "oh look at that guy, his smile"..
    Shaytaan will work on you slowly and he'll make you do many sins that will dissapoint Allah (swt). Your being tested by Allah (swt), He's trying to test your imaan, He wants to see if youll turn to Him or follow shaytaan. At this point make taubah ask for forgiveness, turn to Allah (swt) pray to Him. Make duaa, talk to Allah (swt).
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    OP, DO NOT fall for someone that you can't be with. It really ****ing hurts like nothing you've ever felt before.
    If you think you might fall for him, I'd advice you to just keep your distance.
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    (Original post by Supersaps)
    Ok. But why? What's the actual reasoning behind this belief?


    I don't want to be patronising but following a rule for no reason is strange. What's the reasoning behind the belief and what makes you think those reasons apply to you in your individual circumstances?
    You are really ignorant. Her dad and family will disapprove of it, they would disown the daughter.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Deep inside I don't think i'm falling for him , but I've started analysing little things such as him laughing for no reason, staring at me etc.

    Should I be his friend or stay away from him as I'm confused whether he's after friendship or
    The commonly held wisdom is you can't help falling in love with who you do.
 
 
 
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