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Americans that say "I'm Irish". How come? Watch

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    (Original post by Des_Lumières)
    LOL yes, I've heard this too. I have Irish on my dad's side (his father was born in Ireland and we're Ó Maolalaidh) but I wouldn't claim to be Irish Irish just 'of Irish ancestry'. If I went to live there and chose to bring my family up there I might start thinking of myself as Irish though. Do you encounter many returning Irish people in Ireland?
    My daddy is an example. He was born in Ireland, left to live in London for 18 years and then returned 14 years ago. I was born in London myself but I was brought up with an Irish heritage and culture from day one (and have lived 14 years in Ireland compared to 6 in London). It's definitely popular for people who have emigrated from ireland to return when they're older. My great uncle is moving back from the US after 50 years there so he can die in the city he grew up in.
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    (Original post by Airmed)
    As an Irish person, it's annoying as hell when someone says they're Irish American but the link is like it's their great great great granny's auntie's son's dog was from West Meath or something. Ugh.
    It's "annoying" but it's accurate.
    There is a social dilemma in claiming ethnicity before country/"I'm [country]-American."

    It's a fickle political correctness.

    Most people who claim Irish American do it because black Americans say "African American."
    But in reality most white people in US (visit perhaps?) don't bother with that. They just say white or American. On the census papers (US gov't demographic survey) there is no "Irish" "Polish" "Italian" check box. There's only white.

    However for blacks, there's African American :confused:

    But if they said Irish American, it wouldn't be inaccurate.:beard:
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    I suppose the claim is bandied about a bit more loosely in the US as everyone's descended from immigrants. Whilst it wouldn't really be appropriate for an 8th generation Irish American to lay claim to their Irishness when talking to someone born and raised in Ireland, I get the feeling that as everyone's "American", people use their ancestry however distant among themselves to distinguish their heritage.
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    Americans are obsessed with what they were, rather than what they are.
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    (Original post by somesomebody)
    I never said claim the continent. I pointed out that Africa is a continent because you seem to not understand what "race" is.
    Race is a group of people with indigenous origins from one continent; within a race comes many ethnic groups.
    White is a European race and Irish is a nation within in Europe; Ireland has its own major native ethnic group and cultures. If someone from Ireland moves anywhere they are Irish, even if their cultural orientation isn't there, which you seriously can't say it's not. Simply eating Irish food like potatoes and gravy could be being Irish. Or the pub culture, which is huge; dialects; the dancing; the names; US also has "gypsies." US has all of that. You guys don't know anything.

    What is this culture you say they're detached from??

    And now you're changing it up last minute. Because you don't have a solid idea.
    We're not discussing nationality; we're discussing ethnicity. Obviously someone not from any country can't say that it's their nationality...??

    We're discussing bloodline and ethnicity/race and culture last time I checked lol.

    And you are what you are, no matter where you are.
    It's like saying you move out your parent's house; now you're not their kid anymore????
    Their ethnic group changes over time Black Americans are not the same people from when they came off the slave ships to America it's the same thing with so called Irish Americans they are not the same people when they migrated to America hundreds of years ago. I consider them to be a new group Black Americans and White Americans.
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    (Original post by al_94)
    Their ethnic group changes over time Black Americans are not the same people from when they came off the slave ships to America it's the same thing with so called Irish Americans they are not the same people when they migrated to America hundreds of years ago. I consider them to be a new group Black Americans and White Americans.
    Ethnic group changes?
    You're not even addressing what I said, you're just responding with second-hand thoughts.

    Anyway OP repped me which means he/she understands what I'm saying which is all I wanted.

    (Original post by Drewski)
    Americans are obsessed with what they were, rather than what they are.
    What does this even mean? It's so poetically vague but still vague, so whoever repped you may have interpreted as something other than what you might mean so please explain.
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    (Original post by somesomebody)
    It's "annoying" but it's accurate.
    There is a social dilemma in claiming ethnicity before country/"I'm [country]-American."

    It's a fickle political correctness.

    Most people who claim Irish American do it because black Americans say "African American."
    But in reality most white people in US (visit perhaps?) don't bother with that. They just say white or American. On the census papers (US gov't demographic survey) there is no "Irish" "Polish" "Italian" check box. There's only white.

    However for blacks, there's African American :confused:

    But if they said Irish American, it wouldn't be inaccurate.:beard:
    My sister works in a hotel and many of the American tourists say they're 'blank-American'. It's quite common to hear that in Ireland.
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    (Original post by Airmed)
    My daddy is an example. He was born in Ireland, left to live in London for 18 years and then returned 14 years ago. I was born in London myself but I was brought up with an Irish heritage and culture from day one (and have lived 14 years in Ireland compared to 6 in London). It's definitely popular for people who have emigrated from ireland to return when they're older. My great uncle is moving back from the US after 50 years there so he can die in the city he grew up in.
    Sacré histoire [that's quite a story]! People with Irish connections do seem to often click with each other, don't you think? - I think it's the sense of humour but maybe also a bit of common strife. Sounds like you were really raised Irish, unlike me. My dad went to Grammar school and stayed here which is probably why he lost his sense of being Irish... shame really. Might move back there though - I'm only 20 so there's still time! Rather be there than squatting with les Cons! Are you at uni in Ireland?
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    (Original post by somesomebody)
    What does this even mean? It's so poetically vague but still vague, so whoever repped you may have interpreted as something other than what you might mean so please explain.
    It means exactly what it says.

    Rather than seeking ways of uniting themselves, they do their best to find ways of forcing segregation between them, making different ethnic groups where, really, there are none. As mentioned above, people claim they're Irish despite having no relation set foot on the island for 100+ years. They're no more Irish than I am.

    And it's not just heritage that they do that with. It's an odd quirk of theirs.
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    (Original post by Airmed)
    My sister works in a hotel and many of the American tourists say they're 'blank-American'. It's quite common to hear that in Ireland.
    I'm talking about in the United States how/why they refer themselves as such?? Obviously in a foreign country they will be more specific.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    It means exactly what it says.

    Rather than seeking ways of uniting themselves, they do their best to find ways of forcing segregation between them, making different ethnic groups where, really, there are none. As mentioned above, people claim they're Irish despite having no relation set foot on the island for 100+ years. They're no more Irish than I am.

    And it's not just heritage that they do that with. It's an odd quirk of theirs.
    Your first sentence doesn't even relate to the second. Elaborate on your 4th sentence with an example of other things you accuse them of doing? I just notice a lot of people on here talk about foreigners without even knowing them or having visited the place. It's just off the rail speculations. So yes I'll ask you to elaborate.

    Anyway sure it's a way of being politically correct, identifying specifically with what they are, because the place is so convoluted with different backgrounds. Some people will see it as segregation in the end but the intentions I'm sure was to just be specific however on the census they don't have the "country-American" options.

    Maybe you don't know what that's like in a predominantly white country/UK but every corner you turn all over US, even small towns, there is bound to be someone different to you. People have every right to find a solid group to identify with. I just do not understand the mentality of denying your ancestry simply because you haven't "set foot" somewhere? Makes literally no sense.

    Like what do you even "no more Irish than you?" Again what does that even mean! lol If their blood says they're Irish, they're Irish! Stop claiming Irish as strictly a culture. It's an umbrella term for blood, genes, culture, language, that come from this nation. Being in a different land does NOT disqualify you from having the blood, genes, culture, language
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    (Original post by somesomebody)
    Anyway sure it's a way of being politically correct
    I don't believe it has anything to do with political correctness at all, it's just an excuse to make themselves feel special and different.

    If someone is born in the US, grows up in the US, is educated in the US, to parents who are the same, then there's no cultural connection to Ireland at all. They won't have the accent, they won't know the language, the 'blood' is an arbitrary point that means nothing, as is genes. Genetics don't give you a cultural identity, that comes from environment and nothing else.

    My grandfather came from Lithuania. I have the right to qualify for their national sports teams. But I'm not Lithuanian. I don't know anything of the language, don't know the country, have never visited. If I said to anyone I'm Lithuanian they'd laugh me out of the room - and rightly so.
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    (Original post by Des_Lumières)
    Sacré histoire [that's quite a story]! People with Irish connections do seem to often click with each other, don't you think? - I think it's the sense of humour but maybe also a bit of common strife. Sounds like you were really raised Irish, unlike me. My dad went to Grammar school and stayed here which is probably why he lost his sense of being Irish... shame really. Might move back there though - I'm only 20 so there's still time! Rather be there than squatting with les Cons! Are you at uni in Ireland?
    I'm in Scotland for uni. I'm from the North, it's a shithole, I had to escape. But yeah, literally, even here, if I hear an Irish accent I gravitate towards it!
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    I don't believe it has anything to do with political correctness at all, it's just an excuse to make themselves feel special and different.

    If someone is born in the US, grows up in the US, is educated in the US, to parents who are the same, then there's no cultural connection to Ireland at all. They won't have the accent, they won't know the language, the 'blood' is an arbitrary point that means nothing, as is genes. Genetics don't give you a cultural identity, that comes from environment and nothing else.

    My grandfather came from Lithuania. I have the right to qualify for their national sports teams. But I'm not Lithuanian. I don't know anything of the language, don't know the country, have never visited. If I said to anyone I'm Lithuanian they'd laugh me out of the room - and rightly so.
    Your last paragraph is absolutely irrelevant.
    You having one grandparent from another place
    is not the same as
    an Irish American with every family member having Irish ancestry

    All I'm saying is go to the US and you will SEE they DO commonly still represent Irish "culture." What is this culture you say they're detached from?

    I will post this screenshot here for you to read so I don't have to repeat myself:



    Anyway maybe you're desperate or something or just a combative person I have no idea, but I also have no idea why you keep repeating the culture thing!

    I am discussing

    blood and genetics; you guys don't understand the difference between

    race
    nationality
    ethnicity
    and their relation to but NOT being exclusive to
    culture
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    (Original post by somesomebody)
    Your last paragraph is absolutely irrelevant.
    You having one grandparent from another place
    is not the same as
    an Irish American with every family member having Irish ancestry

    All I'm saying is go to the US and you will SEE they DO commonly still represent Irish "culture." What is this culture you say they're detached from?

    I will post this screenshot here for you to read so I don't have to repeat myself:



    Anyway maybe you're desperate or something or just a combative person I have no idea, but I also have no idea why you keep repeating the culture thing!

    I am discussing

    blood and genetics; you guys don't understand the difference between

    race
    nationality
    ethnicity
    and their relation to but NOT being exclusive to
    culture
    Every human on the planet has African ancestry, so why don't people talk about that?

    Your obsession with blood and genetics means nothing. There's nothing in genes which dictates someone's culture. And I'm not the one bringing it up - you did.


    I have been to the States. I have lived and worked in Canada. I'm well aware that they do. I'm simply saying I find the practise utterly absurd and entirely without merit.

    And I disagree. I think my Lithuanian ancestry is highly relevant to the discussion. According to you I would have Lithuanian blood and genes. But that's nonsense. There's nothing in blood or genes that controls one's nationality.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    Every human on the planet has African ancestry, so why don't people talk about that?

    Your obsession with blood and genetics means nothing. There's nothing in genes which dictates someone's culture. And I'm not the one bringing it up - you did.


    I have been to the States. I have lived and worked in Canada. I'm well aware that they do. I'm simply saying I find the practise utterly absurd and entirely without merit.

    And I disagree. I think my Lithuanian ancestry is highly relevant to the discussion. According to you I would have Lithuanian blood and genes. But that's nonsense. There's nothing in blood or genes that controls one's nationality.
    Lmao again you have conveniently but still not sensibly switched your argument over to a new social classification, that being nationality. You weren't arguing nationality before. You quite simply were arguing cultural detachment Now it's nationality?
    And there is no "obsession." Lmao it's what OP was asking about, and he/she seems to have understood what I meant considering the rep and not bumping the thread again to ask for more clarity...

    Anyway your one grandparent being from some place you claim does NOT relate at ALL to being in a new place with a predominant ancestry from another

    You can disagree lol but the facts are there.
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    (Original post by Airmed)
    I'm in Scotland for uni. I'm from the North, it's a shithole, I had to escape. But yeah, literally, even here, if I hear an Irish accent I gravitate towards it!
    That's cool, I'm in Scotland too! I quite like it here (the mountains are nice!). I hope you find Scotland more to your liking!
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    (Original post by somesomebody)
    Your last paragraph is absolutely irrelevant.
    You having one grandparent from another place
    is not the same as
    an Irish American with every family member having Irish ancestry

    All I'm saying is go to the US and you will SEE they DO commonly still represent Irish "culture." What is this culture you say they're detached from?

    I will post this screenshot here for you to read so I don't have to repeat myself:



    Anyway maybe you're desperate or something or just a combative person I have no idea, but I also have no idea why you keep repeating the culture thing!

    I am discussing

    blood and genetics; you guys don't understand the difference between

    race
    nationality
    ethnicity
    and their relation to but NOT being exclusive to
    culture
    Have you read my comments on this thread?
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    (Original post by somesomebody)
    Lmao again you have conveniently but still not sensibly switched your argument over to a new social classification, that being nationality. You weren't arguing nationality before. You quite simply were arguing cultural detachment Now it's nationality?
    And there is no "obsession." Lmao it's what OP was asking about, and he/she seems to have understood what I meant considering the rep and not bumping the thread again to ask for more clarity...

    Anyway your one grandparent being from some place you claim does NOT relate at ALL to being in a new place with a predominant ancestry from another

    You can disagree lol but the facts are there.
    You mentioned nationality... Really, if you're going to harangue me for using words in your own posts then this is pointless.

    But that's the point, there are no facts. There's no basis for this practise, it's a trend that only some people do. Therefore it has to be something other than "their genes mean x".
    You have presented one point of view. Others have presented an alternative. It's this thing we call "debate".
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    You mentioned nationality... Really, if you're going to harangue me for using words in your own posts then this is pointless.

    But that's the point, there are no facts. There's no basis for this practise, it's a trend that only some people do. Therefore it has to be something other than "their genes mean x".
    You have presented one point of view. Others have presented an alternative. It's this thing we call "debate".
    I did not mention nationality. I listed it as a part of all social classifications that you clearly have jumbled up and straw pick whenever you feel like it lol

    You didn't need to add the last part.

    And yes there are facts.
    If you don't know them:

    1. It's called a dictionary. Use it please. All these words have definitions. You can't pick and choose and then call it a debate. You simply have no idea what or who you're talking about :erm:

    2. It's also called common knowledge of the reality around you, which entails living a bit and learning from your experiences, and others'.

    3. It's also called, an encyclopedia. With history on social constructs such as race, nationality, ethnicity...

    It's quite evident that you need to use all the three things I just mentioned
 
 
 
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