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    (Original post by RickmanAlways)


    Take an hour of your time to watch this please.
    Gary Yourofsky is brilliant and this will change the way you think.
    We dont. Need to eat. MEAT.
    There's a lot of things we don't need to do, so unless you turn caveman, you're a hypocrite.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    I'm just comparing how people go along with something they see as awful just because it is normal. Or they think it is wrong deep down but because everyone goes along with it they can make it all fine. Or that just because it is a a result of some detached consumerism that makes any moral dilemma mute, as if mindless consumerism lets us off the hook on the impacts of that consumerism. At numerous points in me growing up I thought about the whole meat eating thing, asked my parents about it, but they just give a kind of "it's just life" response and I go along with it. I mean, my parents aren't bad people, they have pets they look after and wouldn't harm. I imagine it would have been the same if I was a child growing up in a family that owned slaves.

    If you are a vegan for ethical reasons I can't see how the slavery analogy is not relevent in some way. Even if you don't place animal suffering as being equal to human suffering and it is purely to show how passivity allows major suffering to happen.

    I don;t know why this would irritate someone. You don;t have to agree with say Peter Singer to see why he equates the way we treat animals to slavery. Logic can easily lead down that route and vice versa. If your moral philosophy based purely on minimising physical pain a lot of slavery is probably better than what we do to animals for food, for example.

    I'm not a vegan or vegetarian and I completely reject sanctity of human life on any level beyond humans have instincts and/or social conditioning to look out for other humans due to natural selection making us this way. Darwinism discredits a lot of the arguments for sanctity of human life which are usually based on there being something mystically special about us when in reality we are just an animal.
    Yes I know that people do that. We all do it because we don’t even realise half the time. My point is because it’s something that we go along with as normal and because animal life isn’t as valuable to us as our tastebuds and satiation it is extremely difficult to overcome by militant vegans condescending meat eaters and using comparisons which at the end of the day don’t mean that much to them (meat-eaters).

    Meat-eaters know they are killing animals in droves and supporting the industry by eating meat- and so they don’t need education on this fact.

    I think what should be addresses is areas of hypocrisy e.g.:

    - People eating free range or grass fed meat because they ‘care’ about animal life. If you care, don’t eat the animal. Irrelevant of it’s life, it’s ending up in the slaughter house.
    - Ethical vegetarians- if you care enough about animals not to eat their meat you shouldn’t really be indirectly causing death and suffering by supporting the dairy industry.
    - People who care about the environment- If you care about climate change and sustainable use of the planet then eating meat is potentially one of the worst choices you can make (due to inefficiency of livestock in terms of land area and the emissions that the meat industry causes)

    The other key area of education is about the benefits of eating vegan and just putting the word out there about that rather than attacking the negatives of eating meat. For example the personal health benefits I have experienced since transitioning to a vegan diet:

    - Shinier and stronger hair
    - Clearer and softer skin
    - Brighter eyes
    - More energy
    - Weight loss
    - Improved body composition
    - Better digestion
    - Less brain fog
    - More mental clarity and stability
    - Stronger immune system (haven’t been properly ill since)

    The above will change people’s minds or give them an incentive to try. Not militant vegans making being arrogant and superior and making comparisons that just simply do not resonate with people.
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    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    Hitler was vegetarian.
    Myth.

    But okay, let's consider he was. What about ever other notable person (like Stalin) who has committed atrocious crimes. Do their meat eater diets not count or something?
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    (Original post by Joel 96)
    Myth.

    But okay, let's consider he was. What about ever other notable person (like Stalin) who has committed atrocious crimes. Do their meat eater diets not count or something?
    Don't be silly, it only applies to veggies.
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    (Original post by RickmanAlways)
    It got your attention didn't it?
    You prefer taste over killing animals (dont forget your an animal too) who may not be able to do complicated mathematical sums but are smart enough to know that they are gonna be slaughtered and they try to run but they cant they call for help but there is none, baby cows are torn away from their mothers so we can drink the milk instead. Imagine if the roles were reversed! The whole world would be screaming THIS IS WRONG! because simply it is.
    Erm. I hate to bust through the cotton wool that encompasses your life but someone has to.

    Eating meat is NATURAL. In fact it's even the reason why you exist. If no living organism had ever started eating others we'd all be plants or pond scum. On top of that we need quite a bit of protein to function, especially as infants. Protein deficiency causes all sorts of problems with foetal development, growth, brain development, etc. Yes we can get small amounts of protein from plants like legumes, but that just doesn't cut it unless you binge snack on those foods. Meat is the best source of protein.

    What about every other omnivorous/carnivorous species? Are the members of those species horrible cruel creatures too? Come on, can't you see how ridiculous this is? Besides, life isn't fair. It's just something we have to deal with. Also, if we didn't eat those animals then they'd just be eaten by other animals instead. However, when we kill them we do it quickly and painlessly. When other animals kill them they experience a great deal of pain as claws and teeth are used to rip apart their flesh - while they're still alive. You tell me what's worse.

    If you want to become protein deficient then good for you. But don't try to force everyone else to follow your lead. That includes guilt tripping the gullible. Stop shoving your radical vegetarianism ideals in our faces because we don't care.
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    (Original post by Ethereal World)
    Yes I know that people do that. We all do it because we don’t even realise half the time. My point is because it’s something that we go along with as normal and because animal life isn’t as valuable to us as our tastebuds and satiation it is extremely difficult to overcome by militant vegans condescending meat eaters and using comparisons which at the end of the day don’t mean that much to them (meat-eaters).

    Meat-eaters know they are killing animals in droves and supporting the industry by eating meat- and so they don’t need education on this fact.

    I think what should be addresses is areas of hypocrisy e.g.:

    - People eating free range or grass fed meat because they ‘care’ about animal life. If you care, don’t eat the animal. Irrelevant of it’s life, it’s ending up in the slaughter house.
    - Ethical vegetarians- if you care enough about animals not to eat their meat you shouldn’t really be indirectly causing death and suffering by supporting the dairy industry.
    - People who care about the environment- If you care about climate change and sustainable use of the planet then eating meat is potentially one of the worst choices you can make (due to inefficiency of livestock in terms of land area and the emissions that the meat industry causes)

    The other key area of education is about the benefits of eating vegan and just putting the word out there about that rather than attacking the negatives of eating meat. For example the personal health benefits I have experienced since transitioning to a vegan diet:

    - Shinier and stronger hair
    - Clearer and softer skin
    - Brighter eyes
    - More energy
    - Weight loss
    - Improved body composition
    - Better digestion
    - Less brain fog
    - More mental clarity and stability
    - Stronger immune system (haven’t been properly ill since)

    The above will change people’s minds or give them an incentive to try. Not militant vegans making being arrogant and superior and making comparisons that just simply do not resonate with people.
    You know, the changes in metabolic rate due to consuming fewer calories due to eating less meat causes all of those things. It happens if you take in fewer calories regardless of whether you eat meat or not. Until you provide evidence that this has been taken into account and the data you've mentioned has been adjusted to account for this I'm going to have to label this as bull.
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    Alas I do need to eat meat, sorry

    Spoiler:
    Show
    I need protein (have very high systemic demand for amino acid synthesis as I've ME/CFS) and my GI system does not tolerate substitutes :sad:
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    (Original post by RickmanAlways)


    Take an hour of your time to watch this please.
    Gary Yourofsky is brilliant and this will change the way you think.
    We dont. Need to eat. MEAT.
    Of course, a carnivore diet is not necessary. Most people know it. Inb4 the animal suffering argument, most people don't care. If you think about it, most people are happy purchasing products made by 3rd world children in terrible conditions. If they don't care about other humans, why would they care about other species?
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    (Original post by RickmanAlways)


    Take an hour of your time to watch this please.
    Gary Yourofsky is brilliant and this will change the way you think.
    We dont. Need to eat. MEAT.


    Spoiler:
    Show
    I'm not wasting my 1h 9mins to watch a video when I could be making all kinds of gains, all kinds!
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    Alas I do need to eat meat, sorry

    Spoiler:
    Show
    I need protein (have very high systemic demand for amino acid synthesis as I've ME/CFS) and my GI system does not tolerate substitutes :sad:
    Questionable unless you have tried every substitute (i.e. anything with proteins) under the sun.
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    Guys...I think we should stop eating vegetables too, they are living things. We grow them in intensive farming and pump them full of fertilisers. We chop up living vegetables and throw them into boiling water, we stab fruits with our teeth and grind up their sweet flesh. Just think of the pain they go through everyday because of us murderers.

    Humans should survive purely on air and responsibly sourced organic H20.
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    (Original post by Juichiro)
    Questionable unless you have tried every substitute (i.e. anything with proteins) under the sun
    I've tried all the feasible alternatives I'm aware of, but welcome further suggestions

    Spoiler:
    Show
    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    Personally I only tend to buy chicken/fish, and would substitute for animal meat protein completely were it not for the fact that unfortunately my system does not tolerate e.g. [soy], quorn, eggs, and dairy :sad:
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    We are carnivores
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    (Original post by Peroxidation)
    You know, the decrease in metabolic rate due to consuming fewer calories due to eating less meat causes all of those things. It happens if you take in fewer calories regardless of whether you eat meat or not. Until you provide evidence that this has been taken into account and the data you've mentioned has been adjusted to account for this I'm going to have to label this as bull.
    Loooool I consume way more calories eating vegan. N=1 but I was talking about myself in what I have experienced on a vegan diet.
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    (Original post by RickmanAlways)
    We dont. Need to eat. MEAT.
    You don't need central heating.
    You don't need a mobile phone.
    You don't need the Internet.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by Ethereal World)
    Loooool I consume way more calories eating vegan. N=1 but I was talking about myself in what I have experienced on a vegan diet.
    ...Your personal experience =/= reliable data when investigating overall trends. I don't understand what's funny about the fact that you don't fit the trend, there's always anomalies in these things. For example, if you eat heaps of junk food while still being vegan then you're going to have a higher intake of calories than other people, regardless of whether they're vegan/vegetarian/neither. People also have different metabolic rates anyway, which would also produce anomalies.

    I have to say, presenting your own experiences as scientific evidence (or in your case proof of your assertions) is absolutely deplorable. Not only is it pseudoscientific, but it also the worst kind of evidence you can give. It is not empirical, it can be exaggerated/understated, it cannot be compared to anything whatsoever and then there's the fact that you've got an agenda to push. As an actual scientist I ask that you refrain from making assertions unless you've got scientific evidence to back them up.

    The scientific community works really hard to show the public valid, reliable data in an attempt to silence pesky snake oil salesmen. People presenting inaccurate, invalid and unreliable data in a scientific manner makes our job so much harder.
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    (Original post by MountKimbie)
    Slavery still exists, just in a slightly different form.

    Humans are not equal to animals in the eyes of the law (yes humans are animals but I need to use the word animals to differentiate them from us). In what way do you think humans equal to animals? Sentience?

    If a child and a dog are drowning in a river with similar chances of survival you'll go for the child. Bit of a silly situation to imagine, but you get the point.

    Been watching Cowspiracy have we?
    probably choose the dog...
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    (Original post by mathsastronomy12)
    oh and one more thing, if vegans love animals so much, why do they eat all their food? Banter
    lol. Rofl. Banter banter m9
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    i don't eat meat, with the occasional packet of walkers smoky bacon or roast chicken flavour crisps, which i suspect they may lace with bacon intestine or fowl eyeball juice. But seriously i try to avoid eating that kind of s*** !
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    You're good mate, this has forced me to begin a crusade of eating meat in front of vegans with vigour,
 
 
 
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