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Is social mobility on the decline because education is being dumbed down? Watch

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    (Original post by Quantex)
    I don't think it is due to the perception that education is dumbed down, rather the huge disparity in educational standards. Those in wealthy positions can afford to send their kids to private school or move into the catchment area of well performing school. Then add in things like tutoring, soft activities like musical training, easier access to suitable work experience, and, most importantly, a stable environment to grow up in. Of course the kids are going to waltz their way to academic excellence. Hence they dominate the top universities, dominate graduate recruitments and dominate certain professions like law and medicine.
    This, also we can't vote in a Tory government and expect them to actually give a **** about social mobility. We can expect them to pretend yes, but smoke screens and mirrors is that.
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    Aye,I ended up getting a first but I put it down to hard work
    Who doesn't? :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Jesus Walks)
    Who doesn't? :rolleyes:
    I agree!
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    No, I don't think so.

    Yes, social mobility is down. Yes education has dumbed down. But I would speculate that the two aren't causally linked.

    Social mobility is down because inequality is up. When the mountain is steeper it's harder to climb (but also harder to fall so the metaphor is limited).

    And inequality is down because of economic forces and political decisions (lower taxation at the high end, tax breaks and avoidance for business, less and less demand for low skilled jobs etc.).
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    (Original post by chazwomaq)
    No, I don't think so.

    Yes, social mobility is down. Yes education has dumbed down. But I would speculate that the two aren't causally linked.

    Social mobility is down because inequality is up. When the mountain is steeper it's harder to climb (but also harder to fall so the metaphor is limited).

    And inequality is down because of economic forces and political decisions (lower taxation at the high end, tax breaks and avoidance for business, less and less demand for low skilled jobs etc.).
    There is absolutely nothing to back that up.
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    I think the problem lies with graduate employment or lack thereof. Young people graduate with degrees but there isn't the jobs to support them. People are then left with getting a lower paying job, going on to do a masters/phd or going abroad to find work. There are many young people from middle class backgrounds that end up getting working class jobs because there isn't the jobs available in the area of their degree. STEM fields and business/management fields may be exceptions to this.
    More graduates are employed but they're not earning as much, meaning that they don't have the economic freedom to start building up assets. Most will end up in rented accommodation for longer and as a result it'll take a long time for them to get on the property ladder.



    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-33069312
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    I read a guardian article the other day that quoted a Cambridge University Study, referring to GCSE grades:

    'In 1988 the pass rate...was 42.5%. In 2011, it had reached 69.8%.'

    Further to this, the study found by comparing exam papers from different years, that more recent exams included more short-answer and multiple-choice questions.

    GCSEs at least, seem to be easier than they used to be.
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    (Original post by Quantex)
    I don't think it is due to the perception that education is dumbed down, rather the huge disparity in educational standards. Those in wealthy positions can afford to send their kids to private school or move into the catchment area of well performing school. Then add in things like tutoring, soft activities like musical training, easier access to suitable work experience, and, most importantly, a stable environment to grow up in. Of course the kids are going to waltz their way to academic excellence. Hence they dominate the top universities, dominate graduate recruitments and dominate certain professions like law and medicine.
    Interesting viewpoint.I tend to find that's the opposite for my rich friends most of them do go to elite institutions but they're not career minded. Maybe that's more for the middle classes.
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    (Original post by NekoAngel13)
    I think the problem lies with graduate employment or lack thereof. Young people graduate with degrees but there isn't the jobs to support them. People are then left with getting a lower paying job, going on to do a masters/phd or going abroad to find work. There are many young people from middle class backgrounds that end up getting working class jobs because there isn't the jobs available in the area of their degree. STEM fields and business/management fields may be exceptions to this.
    More graduates are employed but they're not earning as much, meaning that they don't have the economic freedom to start building up assets. Most will end up in rented accommodation for longer and as a result it'll take a long time for them to get on the property ladder.



    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-33069312
    Agreed. I think the other major issue is the already large disparity in wealth and the rising costs of owning a home. London for example median salary is below the yearly rise in property values.
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    Agreed. I think the other major issue is the already large disparity in wealth and the rising costs of owning a home. London for example median salary is below the yearly rise in property values.
    This is a key point, I can save around 10-12k a year, but house prices are increasing faster than that.
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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    There is absolutely nothing to back that up.
    Grade inflation: proportion of students getting As or 1sts.

    Comparison of O level and GCSEs.
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    (Original post by chazwomaq)
    Grade inflation: proportion of students getting As or 1sts.

    Comparison of O level and GCSEs.
    Umm, maybe the kids are getting smarter...
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    Everybody needs a degree to get a good job.

    I think the OP is offended others are nearing his elitism....
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    (Original post by unamujercaliente)
    Everybody needs a degree to get a good job.

    I think the OP is offended others are nearing his elitism....
    hear hear!
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    The idea of social mobility has always been a myth perpetuated in the UK to make the education system seem 'fair'.

    The job market is all about who you know, not what you know.
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    (Original post by DanB1991)
    The idea of social mobility has always been a myth perpetuated in the UK to make the education system seem 'fair'.

    The job market is all about who you know, not what you know.
    Spoken like someone who's bitter about not being as successful as he wanted.
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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    Spoken like someone who's bitter about not being as successful as he wanted.
    Well I couldn't do what I wanted to do because of medical reasons :laugh: kind of why I'm in the middle of re-specialising.

    But in all seriousness, if you're not from a good background it's more dependent on your ability to network and create new connections. The further down you are the socio-economic hierarchy the harder this is.

    There's are reason employment companies stress that creating connections is the most important thing anyone needs to do to enter a decent job. Randomly trying to find work via adverts is an extremely inefficient way to get work, especially in the higher paid and status jobs.

    I know a fair few people who are extremely shocked at how many of their peers got their job through 'daddys connections'. I have one friend who works in the British Embassy in Israel and is one of the only employees there on a good wage who was even applied and interviewed for the job in the traditional manner, he was extremely bitter about it!
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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    Umm, maybe the kids are getting smarter...
    I'd put it more down to schools year on year get to teach mostly the same thing and practise what they are teaching.

    On the basis of repeating a task usually means doing it better in future, of course grades are going to improve over time.

    Doesn't necessarily mean the kids are smarter nor dumber, more the schools realistically are doing their jobs properly.
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    (Original post by DanB1991)
    Well I couldn't do what I wanted to do because of medical reasons :laugh: kind of why I'm in the middle of re-specialising.

    But in all seriousness, if you're not from a good background it's more dependent on your ability to network and create new connections. The further down you are the socio-economic hierarchy the harder this is.

    There's are reason employment companies stress that creating connections is the most important thing anyone needs to do to enter a decent job. Randomly trying to find work via adverts is an extremely inefficient way to get work, especially in the higher paid and status jobs.

    I know a fair few people who are extremely shocked at how many of their peers got their job through 'daddys connections'. I have one friend who works in the British Embassy in Israel and is one of the only employees there on a good wage who was even applied and interviewed for the job in the traditional manner, he was extremely bitter about it!
    You make one decent point here, as yes it is harder for working class people like myself to make connections, but that's not a excuse, it's not that difficult to talk to people who earn more than you, so that's what you do. If someone spends all their time with wastemans then the likelihood is that they'll too become a wasteman. However, just start from people who earn more than you and go from there, I have the phone numbers of several people who run their own (profitable) businesses. On LinkedIn, I have a huge connection base as well. It's not that difficult to meet people and just because it's harder when you're poorer, it's no excuse.
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    (Original post by DanB1991)
    I'd put it more down to schools year on year get to teach mostly the same thing and practise what they are teaching.

    On the basis of repeating a task usually means doing it better in future, of course grades are going to improve over time.

    Doesn't necessarily mean the kids are smarter nor dumber, more the schools realistically are doing their jobs properly.
    Maybe, but there isn't actually anything to suggest that education is being "dumbed down".
 
 
 
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