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Cambridge students cancel theme party over 'cultural appropriation' fears watch

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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    The problem here is that you aren't following a straight line of thought (from what I can see, and I mean that in the nicest way possible). You keep declaring people 'victims' before we've even established that they are -- you seem to operate on the assumption that they are victims by default and that any debate must proceed only after accepting this to be true, which is just not how you debate an issue of this kind.

    Anyway, plenty of examples have been cited on this thread. Curry, or the heavily modified version of it found in British restaurants, is a popular food in Britain. If I make some right now, am I stealing something from the Indian community? If you say yes, then you must prove that they had ownership/copyright of this in the first place, which you haven't done so far.

    You have also not managed to reconcile your pro-integration worldview with this culture-ownership model that you're arguing for. You cannot have an assimilated multicultural society if you insist on this nonsense barriers that make it taboo to eat the wrong thing, wear the wrong clothes, or get the wrong haircut. The proper word for that is (self-imposed) segregation, and I'm sure that not many people want that.
    If they weren't genuine victims I don't think the universities would be genuinely concerned about creating safe spaces? And how do you define whether they are victims or not,you'll probably say no as you don't believe in cultural appropriation yourself,so it's just bias?

    I don't remember examples cited. What would be cultural appropriation is you disliking people from that part of the world and then passing off their cultural good as your own whilst still maintaining that you dislike said group of people

    Nah,I'm a huge supporter of multiculturalism but I can see why cultural appropriation should not be seen in a positive manner.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    The price of measuring intelligence using academic grades only, I guess. :dontknow:
    Cambridge interviews students as well though. It's the same in the US as well, Yale, Princeton, Harvard, former great colleges which promoted a vision based on enterprise and intelligence replaced by a bunch of hippies who get good results in tests.
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    What makes you who you are is your actions and experiences, not your ethnicity.

    Pride is reserved for your own achievements not your your results of the genetic lottery.
    Maybe for you,like I said,it doesn't on the place of upbringing. Some cultures emphasise this a lot more,so clearly we weren't brought up the same way
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    (Original post by whorace)
    Cambridge interviews students as well though. It's the same in the US as well, Yale, Princeton, Harvard, former great colleges which promoted a vision based on enterprise and intelligence replaced by a bunch of hippies who get good results in tests.
    They do, but the interview is secondary in the sense that the grades are the first hurdle. No matter how well you interview, you're not getting in with three Bs in your A Levels. They get flooded with applications from people with 95+ percent UMS averages, and given that that's the criterion that they use most heavily to decide who gets an interview, it's hardly a surprise that they end up with so many people who know how to never drop a mark in an exam but can't think to save their lives.
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    Maybe for you,like I said,it doesn't on the place of upbringing. Some cultures emphasise this a lot more,so clearly we weren't brought up the same way
    Is it perhaps that as an immigrant you feel more disconnected from your own heritage than you would otherwise be if you were not living in the UK. I'm not saying this as bad thing, merely trying to understand it.

    Something I rarely talk about is that I am a 3rd generation immigrant to the UK. But I have never been to my family's country of origin or been involved in the culture.
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    If they weren't genuine victims I don't think the universities would be genuinely concerned about creating safe spaces?
    We're definitely going in circles now, because I've explained this twice, this being the most recent instance:

    (Original post by Hydeman)
    As Good bloke explained earlier, you're conflating two different things.

    Anyway, I explained this to you before: they are simply capitulating to the stupid demands of students whose money they need to be able to do all the things that they want to do as institutions. I'd be seriously worried if leading universities were doing this out of a principled commitment to protecting their students from being exposed to ideas that they don't like.

    (Bearing in mind now that this has almost nothing to do with 'cultural appropriation.' Safe spaces are a tangentially related issue, but are quite distinct from the grievances being discussed right now.)
    And how do you define whether they are victims or not,you'll probably say no as you don't believe in cultural appropriation yourself,so it's just bias?
    That would be the case if I held on to this belief irrationally. But I don't; I've argued my case as best as I can, and I welcome any challenge to it from anybody at all (who isn't on my ignore list :innocent:).

    My issue here is that you refer to them as victims before any consensus has been reached on whether they are victims. I thought about highlighting this earlier: there was one instance where you were discussing whether they were victims while at the same time referring to them as such, which I thought odd, but meh. Too late to look for it now.

    We determine whether they are victims or not by looking at the matter reasonably. Why do they feel that they 'own' their culture? Are they entitled to prevent people from wearing what they like in a free society? These aren't questions that have produced answers thus far that would allow us to say that these people are the victims of any injustice that exists outside their imaginations.

    I don't remember examples cited.
    This isn't true. Good bloke cited a number of examples, as did TimmonaPortella, as did I (well, I cited two). You even briefly addressed some of them.

    What would be cultural appropriation is you disliking people from that part of the world and then passing off their cultural good as your own whilst still maintaining that you dislike said group of people
    I think one of the great problems with this discussion is that you, speaking on behalf of the people who believe that this is a real thing, don't have a very consistent definition of what you mean by this. I don't mean that as a personal attack, but previously you've defined it as exploitation/taking advantage of/taking credit for minority cultures (with a less than satisfactory explanation for why the majority/minority distinction is at all relevant if we consider this objectively).

    On further questioning, you've defined 'exploitation/taking advantage of/taking credit for' as adopting parts of the culture with malicious intent and, when this has been shown to be unworkable and arbitrary by counter-example, you've retreated and said that you don't understand it that well yourself and aren't an expert, only to repeat the same things moments later.

    I just don't think this is a tenable line of argument, circular as it is. :dontknow:

    Nah,I'm a huge supporter of multiculturalism but I can see why cultural appropriation should not be seen in a positive manner.
    This makes no sense, for the reasons that I've previously explained. You don't support multiculturalism if you support people feeling entitled to their culture in a way that encourages segregation.

    Edit: This is also an example where you talk about something whose existence/severity is in dispute in a way that assumes that this information has already been agreed upon. It hasn't; we're still talking about it.
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    how many times does this have to be repeated?
    It doesn't have to be repeated. You just have to explain the logic of what is wrong and why, and why it only applies to majorities "appropriating" minority cultures and not the other way round. Please go back to my examples and tell me why each is OK or not OK, as you promised last night. also explain why you don't want proper assimilation (which the concept of cultural appropriation appears to forbid).

    If you really don't understand then that is fine. All you need do then is say so and not try to teach us about it when you don't understand yourself. And remember the lesson for the future.

    It would help if you stopped sneering at us and assuming we don't know what we are talking about as well as you do. To say you are Arab as we may not understand Levantine is patently ridiculous and insulting as well as being misleading - and, in this debate, dishonest. The truth is you are a half-European half-Levantine non-Arab who has never lived in Syria.

    To claim that a Syrian necessarily understands what is going on in Syria better than a Briton is also ridiculous, particularly if the Syrian is (a) half-Syrian and (b) a non-resident.
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    (Original post by generallee)
    On another thread you claimed to be of English ethnicity.

    You don't know what you are, do you?

    Except for someone desperately seeking attention! We can all see that...
    you are a nasty bully.
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    (Original post by the bear)
    you are a nasty bully.
    you are a bear.
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    Do you still not agree about the Arab Jews conversation we had?
    Do you still think that Arab Jews are Arabs?
    (Original post by queen-bee)
    I may not identify as an Arab but I speak the language and follow the culture
    If you speak Arabic language, follow Arabic culture and look Arabic - then you are an Arab. :cool:
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Only the French/Italians should wear jeans! :pierre:

    Oops, I'm stereotyping a Frenchman with that emoticon! :cry2:
    You need to put a Breton shirt on him and string some onions around his neck. Then have a speech bubble saying "It is I. l'eclaire"

    Then he'd be a true Frenchie!
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    (Original post by admonit)
    Do you still think that Arab Jews are Arabs?

    If you speak Arabic language, follow Arabic culture and look Arabic - then you are an Arab. :cool:
    Looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck; probably is a duck.
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    I went to an Ethiopian restaurant not too long ago and ate, as is the tradition, with my fingers. I suppose that was cultural appropriation; the restaurant owners should rightly have objected to a white cracker like me using my fingers and handed me some damn silverware.

    Same with chopsticks - I apologise for having tried (and usually failed miserably) to use them in the past. I'll just use a plastic spoon next time so not to cause offence.
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    (Original post by generallee)
    On another thread you claimed to be of English ethnicity.

    You don't know what you are, do you?

    Except for someone desperately seeking attention! We can all see that...
    I can't be ethnically English,so your point is moot but English/British,in a sense that I live in England/UK

    I'm pretty sure I've made it clear what I am,some people just can't seem to stand me saying it. How are people still having difficulties understanding this,I also have mentioned it in my profile if you can't seem to understand it on this thread.. Or as another user,good bloke, has just simplified for everyone's understanding:

    'truth is you are a half-European half-Levantine non-Arab who has never lived in Syria.'


    If I'm attention seeking don't bother quoting me If you can't stand me, you don't get to police me
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    (Original post by the bear)
    you are a nasty bully.
    I feel so bullied
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    I feel so bullied
    :console:

    the a-hole filter needs replacing
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    (Original post by admonit)
    Do you still think that Arab Jews are Arabs?

    If you speak Arabic language, follow Arabic culture and look Arabic - then you are an Arab. :cool:
    Yes

    It's not as simple as that. I am a Levantine,I speak arabic,I follow the culture but I'm not really an Arab?
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    (Original post by the bear)
    :console:

    the a-hole filter needs replacing
    Thank you habibi
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    Yes

    It's not as simple as that. I am a Cutie,I speak Cutely,I follow the Cuture but I'm not really a total Cutie?
    :ahee:
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    It doesn't have to be repeated. You just have to explain the logic of what is wrong and why, and why it only applies to majorities "appropriating" minority cultures and not the other way round. Please go back to my examples and tell me why each is OK or not OK, as you promised last night. also explain why you don't want proper assimilation (which the concept of cultural appropriation appears to forbid).

    If you really don't understand then that is fine. All you need do then is say so and not try to teach us about it when you don't understand yourself. And remember the lesson for the future.

    It would help if you stopped sneering at us and assuming we don't know what we are talking about as well as you do. To say you are Arab as we may not understand Levantine is patently ridiculous and insulting as well as being misleading - and, in this debate, dishonest. The truth is you are a half-European half-Levantine non-Arab who has never lived in Syria.

    To claim that a Syrian necessarily understands what is going on in Syria better than a Briton is also ridiculous, particularly if the Syrian is (a) half-Syrian and (b) a non-resident.
    I have answers your questions and even gave you an example of your wife trying to appropriate middle eastern culture and you chose to ignore it.

    Yes,it's misleading, but the majority of levantines still choose to see themselves as Arabs,is that misleading too even tho they know full well they are not ? Ofcourse but they still say it
    I'm sorry but the majority of the kids on this forum no idea what the levant region is.

    Yes,you're right. I am a half European-half Levantine non Arab who has visited Syria multiple times before this whole tragedy
 
 
 
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