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Cambridge students cancel theme party over 'cultural appropriation' fears Watch

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    (Original post by Howard)
    I don't agree with that either.

    I'm originally English myself but emigrated to the US in 2001 and eventually became a US citizen. However, to think of myself as just as American as my native born neighbours is ridiculous. And, I say this, even though I share the same culture and ancestral heritage with many of those neighbours.
    I only think of myself as English/British in an integration sense and the fact that I was born here but other than that,being middle eastern and Italian is what I've always identified as coming first
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    I only think of myself as English/British in an integration sense and the fact that I was born here but other than that,being middle eastern and Italian is what I've always identified as coming first
    I think of myself as American first, then Canadian, and then British. (I hold citizenship of all three countries)

    But I can never be "just as American" as a native born American. For a start, the Constitution which is the highest law in the land does not recognise me as an equal. Not that I begrudge that law, but it's a fact. All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others.
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    Is it perhaps that as an immigrant you feel more disconnected from your own heritage than you would otherwise be if you were not living in the UK. I'm not saying this as bad thing, merely trying to understand it.

    Something I rarely talk about is that I am a 3rd generation immigrant to the UK. But I have never been to my family's country of origin or been involved in the culture.
    I feel like a foreigner living within london,you're right.

    That's the thing,you're probably not as connected as I am to Damascus or Tuscany. When I'm back home in Tuscany I feel so different than just being here in London or when I'm visiting any other ME country. I just feel at home,I feel closer to my heritage
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    (Original post by Howard)
    I think of myself as American first, then Canadian, and then British. (I hold citizenship of all three countries)

    But I can never be "just as American" as a native born American. For a start, the Constitution which is the highest law in the land does not recognise me as an equal. Not that I begrudge that law, but it's a fact. All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others.
    Exactly! That's how I feel,like a foreigner in the UK.
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    Yes

    It's not as simple as that. I am a Levantine,I speak arabic,I follow the culture but I'm not really an Arab?
    Oxford dictionary:
    Levantine - A person who lives in or comes from the Levant.
    Levant (archaic) - The eastern part of the Mediterranean with its islands and
    neighbouring countries.

    It's about geography, not ethnicity.
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    (Original post by admonit)
    Oxford dictionary:
    Levantine - A person who lives in or comes from the Levant.
    Levant (archaic) - The eastern part of the Mediterranean with its islands and
    neighbouring countries.

    It's about geography, not ethnicity.
    Levantines are not Arabs!
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    I feel they are victims. If they weren't,the university would bother giving them counselling or even cancelling the whole event.
    Except I've already explained why universities are giving in to their demands. Money. Nothing more, nothing less. So you've only got subjective perception on your side as far as victimhood goes.

    Look,I don't care whether you choose to believe in cultural appropriation or not.
    I don't 'choose' to believe or disbelieve things because it seems nice or sensible or 'common sense' to do so -- that's called wishful thinking. It would be nice if you'd gracefully concede some of the points that you haven't made very well instead of upending the board because you're not pleased with the outcome.

    If you don't want to accept that minority cultures are being exploited on university campuses is up to you
    Again, this isn't about what I want to be true; it's about what is true. Whatever you or I want or don't want is irrelevant to what is the case.

    I also have never claimed to be an expert on such matters but I do believe such a thing exists and people have the right to voice their grievances to their universities.
    So am I to take it that you're going to hold to this view simply because you want it to be true? Well, alright, but in future, please let me know at the start that you're not willing to be convinced. It would have saved 10 pages of fruitless discussion.

    Hmm interesting you say this. I can still integrate with other cultures without the need to feel like I have to take advantage of said culture
    No comment. This position has been discredited, and you have not made any reasonable counter-arguments, so it's safe to write this off as deliberate obscurantism, I think.
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    Exactly! That's how I feel,like a foreigner in the UK.
    It takes a couple of generations. My kids were both born in the USA so are about as American as apple pie.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    Except I've already explained why universities are giving in to their demands. Money. Nothing more, nothing less. So you've only got subjective perception on your side as far as victimhood goes.



    I don't 'choose' to believe or disbelieve things because it seems nice or sensible or 'common sense' to do so -- that's called wishful thinking. It would be nice if you'd gracefully concede some of the points that you haven't made very well instead of upending the board because you're not pleased with the outcome.



    Again, this isn't about what I want to be true; it's about what is true. Whatever you or I want or don't want is irrelevant to what is the case.



    So am I to take it that you're going to hold to this view simply because you want it to be true? Well, alright, but in future, please let me know at the start that you're not willing to be convinced. It would have saved 10 pages of fruitless discussion.



    No comment. This position has been discredited, and you have not made any reasonable counter-arguments, so it's safe to write this off as deliberate obscurantism, I think.
    So you're not the spokesperson speaking on behalf of universities in the UK?

    Nothing to do with being nice or common sense. It's to do with justice! What points? Khalas,I'm so tired!

    Simply because i speak out where I see injustices. I just told you where I stand,why do you feel that people should have to culturally appropriate other people's culture for them to be integrated into society?

    And yes I said earlier you're treating this like a witch hunt because you don't like that people are voicing there opinions on such things just like the issues concerning islamophobia
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    So you're not the spokesperson speaking on behalf of universities in the UK?

    Nothing to do with being nice or common sense. It's to do with justice! What points? Khalas,I'm so tired!

    Simply because i speak out where I see injustices. I just told you where I stand,why do you feel that people should have to culturally appropriate other people's culture for them to be integrated into society?
    Injustices have to be proven, I'm afraid. Under your definition, anybody can be a victim by simply claiming to be one, as and when it's convenient for them.

    And yes I said earlier you're treating this like a witch hunt because you don't like that people are voicing there opinions on such things just like the issues concerning islamophobia
    When have I said that I don't like people voicing their opinions? Simply disagreeing with somebody's opinion and arguing against it is not the same as trying to stop them from expressing it in the first place.

    I also don't know what 'Islamophobia' has to do with any of this.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    Injustices have to be proven, I'm afraid. Under your definition, anybody can be a victim by simply claiming to be one, as and when it's convenient for them.



    When have I said that I don't like people voicing their opinions? Simply disagreeing with somebody's opinion and arguing against it is not the same as trying to stop them from expressing it in the first place.

    I also don't know what 'Islamophobia' has to do with any of this.
    Have a read habibi and tell me what you think:

    http://racerelations.about.com/od/di...s-It-Wrong.htm

    The article also talks about assimilation and 'culture sharing'
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    (Original post by Howard)
    It takes a couple of generations. My kids were both born in the USA so are about as American as apple pie.
    Are you part of the klan?
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    Are you part of the klan?
    AKIA??

    Good Lord, what makes you ask that!?
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    If you don't want to accept that minority cultures are being exploited on university campuses is up to you,I also have never claimed to be an expert on such matters but I do believe such a thing exists and people have the right to voice their grievances to their universities.
    But you keep ignoring our request to explain what this exploitation is, and why it does not apply the other way around. Are you able to tell us?

    (Original post by queen-bee)
    I have answers your questions and even gave you an example of your wife trying to appropriate middle eastern culture and you chose to ignore it.
    No. Go back and consider them individually.

    As for my wife. You said you can dress as an Arab princess because you are an Arabic speaker and know something of the culture so far as I can make out. You were not born there, are not an Arab, and have never lived there. The only difference between you and my wife is that you can speak Arabic (which is hardly relevant if you are attending a UK fancy dress party, is it?) and she can't, yet you can dress up as an Arab and she can't . Can you not see why we cannot understand what all the confusion is about?
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    (Original post by Howard)
    AKIA??

    Good Lord, what makes you ask that!?
    I've seen the stuff you've been posting...
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    But you keep ignoring our request to explain what this exploitation is, and why it does not apply the other way around. Are you able to tell us?



    No. Go back and consider them individually.

    As for my wife. You said you can dress as an Arab princess because you are an Arabic speaker and know something of the culture so far as I can make out. You were not born there, are not an Arab, and have never lived there. The only difference between you and my wife is that you can speak Arabic (which is hardly relevant if you are attending a UK fancy dress party, is it?) and she can't, yet you can dress up as an Arab and she can't . Can you not see why we cannot understand what all the confusion is about?
    I have explained many times!


    So your wife is also familiar with the culture? Like me? She is aware of the customs,the history of the culture?
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    Have a read habibi and tell me what you think:

    http://racerelations.about.com/od/di...s-It-Wrong.htm

    The article also talks about assimilation and 'culture sharing'
    The article doesn't talk about anything that hasn't already been brought up and been refuted here with regards to 'taking credit.' It relies on the same, incorrect assumption that we live in a society governed by group rights (see the the politics of Lebanon for something that's really based on group rights) as opposed to individual rights, and that one of these group rights is communal ownership of a given group's culture.

    This kind of reasoning, even if it wasn't flawed at the root, would easily run into trouble with people who hold membership of more than one group, such as yourself. Contrary to what the author, a race relations 'expert', thinks, this isn't some kind of progressive agenda; it's downright retrograde in its insistence on regulating people's lives according to their parentage.
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    I have explained many times!


    So your wife is also familiar with the culture? Like me? She is aware of the customs,the history of the culture?
    No you haven't; you keep ignoring points. How is any of that relevant to going to a fancy dress party? Why is appropriation of majority culture by minorities not a problem?
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    I've seen the stuff you've been posting...
    Oh. Well, no I'm not. I couldn't be as I'm not a native born American which is an absolute requisite for membership. But even if it were possible and I were a member I'd not admit it to you. No true klansman will ever reveal membership to an outsider (or an "alien" as they are properly known) It's a secret organization.

    BTW, there's no such thing as 'the klan" and hasn't been since 1944. There are instead many different klans (and many of them are bitter rivals and hate one another's guts!) Just so you know.
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    So your wife is also familiar with the culture? Like me? She is aware of the customs,the history of the culture?
    Are you familiar with Macedonian Greek culture?
 
 
 
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