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"Traditional notions of left and right are breaking down." watch

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    http://capx.co/politics-is-too-compl...eft-and-right/

    (Original post by CapX)
    This suggests that the Tories won the election not just because they were seen as the most capable of managing the economy, but also because they occupied the common ground between Labour and UKIP on the social divide.
    (Original post by CapX)
    Most UKIP voters are left-wing, and some more so than Labour supporters.
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    I agree, traditionally the left has been synonymous with libertarianism. But the neo-left seem to be less concerned with individual freedom, they're actually becoming quite authoritarian.

    The Left and Right scale is a bit of an oversimplification imo, because while you could be economically left leaning, you could still have fairly conservative social views and vice-versa. That's why I like Political Compass' 2 axis scale, however even then it's still a simplification.
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    I certainly think the left/right description is pretty outdated at the moment.

    The main points of contention are the rights of non citizens and immigrants. As well as the states role in social values.
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    (Original post by Zargabaath)
    The Left and Right scale is a bit of an oversimplification imo, because while you could be economically left leaning, you could still have fairly conservative social views and vice-versa. That's why I like Political Compass' 2 axis scale, however even then it's still a simplification.
    I like the scale, i dont like the quiz though. There is a lot it doesnt take into account.
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    (Original post by Farm_Ecology)
    I like the scale, i dont like the quiz though. There is a lot it doesnt take into account.
    I like the quiz, because it's useful for people who aren't heavily into politics as a basic dummies guide. But yes I agree, there is a lot it doesn't take into account and it's still oversimplifying in my opinion. There was another quiz, more in depth then Political Compass, which was posted on TSR a few weeks ago but I can't remember what it was called. It broke results down into multiple scales, giving a more informative answer.
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    Ethereal World Heard she's good at breaking down.


    Also, she has interesting things to say on this topic.


    SS
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    (Original post by Supersaps)
    Ethereal World Heard she's good at breaking down.


    Also, she has interesting things to say on this topic.


    SS
    Why am I good at breaking down? :hmmm:
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    Admittedly, it was a poor choice of pun. My apologies.
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    (Original post by Zargabaath)
    I like the quiz, because it's useful for people who aren't heavily into politics as a basic dummies guide. But yes I agree, there is a lot it doesn't take into account and it's still oversimplifying in my opinion. There was another quiz, more in depth then Political Compass, which was posted on TSR a few weeks ago but I can't remember what it was called. It broke results down into multiple scales, giving a more informative answer.
    To give a couple of examples. There is a question about worrying about the blend of information and entertainment. Answering that you strongly disagree could mean you think its a good thing, or that you dont think it is happening. All the reasons behind this are what makes your answer aimed at a political leaning.

    This is just one example, but many questions are more of a question of awareness and understanding than anything about political leaning.
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    No there are two Eton boys running the country its as conservative as ever. And the Left wing is socialist again thread dead/

    You can't just quote someone one person and use that to base such a generalised view on/
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    I don't agree, I think the left and right are as concrete as ever. The Tory's unexpected majority can be attributed to the failure of the Lib Dems and most of their defectors opting for the Conservatives opposed to Labour.
    In the past this wouldn't have been the case hence the majority being unexpected. However, I think many people have strayed from the Labour party due to their being to similar to the Conservatives - too centre - and not moving back to the left after Blair. And Milliband being bumbling as he is.
    Labour also lost close to 50 seats in Scotland alone to a left-wing nationalist party.
    Many UKIP voters were ex-Labour voters as well. And they're facing competition from the Green Party which imbibes many 'traditional' Labour principles.

    All in all, the left is split leading to the success of the right - as happened throughout the Thatcher era
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    Most UKIP voters are not left wing. Admiring Hitler but thinking free markets are a good thing does not make you left wing lol.

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    (Original post by Death Grips)
    Most UKIP voters are not left wing. Admiring Hitler but thinking free markets are a good thing does not make you left wing lol.
    So, admiring Stalin makes you left-wing?
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    (Original post by Aceadria)
    So, admiring Stalin makes you left-wing?
    Your brain is clearly upside down.

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    (Original post by Death Grips)
    Your brain is clearly upside down.

    That's exactly the logic your statement used.
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    Essentially, yes- old style notions of purely left and right are no longer even remotely sufficient- unless looking purely at economic, which unfortunately is what most politics has been been brought down to and in particular has been exploited by the media and corporates into dumming down the populace.


    In addition to Libertarian/ Authoritarian distinctions I would think that a Cosmopolitan/ Communitarian distinction is necessary to describe people with similar economic views but vastly different views on things like Foreign Policy e.g- Hilary Benn/ George Galloway or George Osbourne/ David Davis

    Possibly a Pragmatism/ Idealism one too.
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    In many respects, left and right, are categories of people who have become parodies of themselves. There can be a lot of grandstanding, narcissism and navel contemplation within these movements and individuals who associate with it. If the Conservatives are in favour of a policy, Labour has to oppose it, and this type of unthinking logic goes well beyond these political parties, we see it among journalists, commentators and even bloggers. Something is wrong by virtue of the fact of the person doing it and not so much what's being done.
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    Left/right has nothing to do with anything more than the level of economic intervention by the government. Libertarianism (in the non-economic sense) and authoritarianism are entirely different.
 
 
 
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