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    A pig was born to be bacon tho?
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    (Original post by Multitalented me)
    I personally believe that all sentient life is equal.
    agree 110%
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    (Original post by ThatOldGuy)
    Chicken wings is murder. Garpar, Buffalo, blue cheese. I made a road trip to Edinburgh just specifically so I could have wings from Wings because I am a savage.
    Corrected that for you
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    We are all animals produced by natural selection. That's it. There are similarities and differences. Compared to the mythology surrounding human uniqueness most people still do or used to all believe, which is where the Christian scancity of human life comes from, are thoroughly debunked by Darwinian biology. We are more equal than are gut instincts and creation myths lead us to believe. Everything literately comes from the same group of chemicals. No gods made us. We come from the same stuff as a Cow.

    Humans are capable of being rational and finding things out. We are unique in human terms since the advent of Darwin, unlike most humans that have ever existed we have a pretty good idea of what we are and where we have come from. We are capable of seeing past our biologically programmed instincts to get to a higher level of logical understanding based on empirical evidence.

    If you bring a machete to a cow's hide and to a humans back they are both going to be in excruciating physical pain regardless of the species divide.

    Say another species of Ape existed and lived like we did as hunter gatherers. They have culture, some kind of language, and complex social relations. (Scientists may have found chimps practising religion https://www.newscientist.com/article...n-of-religion/)

    If given the choice between killing a mother with dependents from that species and a human that say had committed genocide. I choose the human to kill. To be honest I'd choose killing someone like Ratko Mladic over killing a cow... So there are obviously values I place higher than strict species divide. There are instances where killing a human is better than killing another animal. Sanctity of human life goes down the toilet from then onwards and I start to look at creatures like Dolphins, which are highly intelligent, as being akin to primitive humans. Just because they don't have thumbs and have not built a civilisation does not mean they do not suffer or are not highly sentient.

    We already do this in our science fiction like Star Trek. The different species are treated as occupying the same plane of existence as us based on their sentience and similarity to us. That's the idea that what matters isn't species divide, rather level of sentience, emotional intelligence and other such factors escaping through. Often it's more a crude analogy of the differences between humans now such as
    ethnicity and nationality etc, but the point still stands. The fact we portray differences in intelligent species in Sci-Fi like Star Trek being more like the differences between humans based on nationality and culture back in reality probably goes some way to show we already think like this to some degree. Or that we are all uber racists and nationalistic and equate foreigners as being a different species
    ohhhh Ethernal just got schooled with some facts. :rofl:
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    We are all animals produced by natural selection. That's it. There are similarities and differences. Compared to the mythology surrounding human uniqueness most people still do or used to all believe, which is where the Christian scancity of human life comes from, are thoroughly debunked by Darwinian biology. We are more equal than are gut instincts and creation myths lead us to believe. Everything literately comes from the same group of chemicals. No gods made us. We come from the same stuff as a Cow.

    Humans are capable of being rational and finding things out. We are unique in human terms since the advent of Darwin, unlike most humans that have ever existed we have a pretty good idea of what we are and where we have come from. We are capable of seeing past our biologically programmed instincts to get to a higher level of logical understanding based on empirical evidence.

    If you bring a machete to a cow's hide and to a humans back they are both going to be in excruciating physical pain regardless of the species divide.

    Say another species of Ape existed and lived like we did as hunter gatherers. They have culture, some kind of language, and complex social relations. (Scientists may have found chimps practising religion https://www.newscientist.com/article...n-of-religion/)

    If given the choice between killing a mother with dependents from that species and a human that say had committed genocide. I choose the human to kill. To be honest I'd choose killing someone like Ratko Mladic over killing a cow... So there are obviously values I place higher than strict species divide. There are instances where killing a human is better than killing another animal. Sanctity of human life goes down the toilet from then onwards and I start to look at creatures like Dolphins, which are highly intelligent, as being akin to primitive humans. Just because they don't have thumbs and have not built a civilisation does not mean they do not suffer or are not highly sentient.

    We already do this in our science fiction like Star Trek. The different species are treated as occupying the same plane of existence as us based on their sentience and similarity to us. That's the idea that what matters isn't species divide, rather level of sentience, emotional intelligence and other such factors escaping through. Often it's more a crude analogy of the differences between humans now such as
    ethnicity and nationality etc, but the point still stands. The fact we portray differences in intelligent species in Sci-Fi like Star Trek being more like the differences between humans based on nationality and culture back in reality probably goes some way to show we already think like this to some degree. Or that we are all uber racists and nationalistic and equate foreigners as being a different species Either way that shows that our superstitious understanding of how species divide dictates how we treat other living things is based on a human prejudice more than anything even if that prejudice is put there for natural section reasons.

    What if the racists of the 1800s were right? That black people are a different race. Would that have justified how they were treated?
    Totally agree.
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    (Original post by gg9322)
    I completely disagree with animals being inferior.

    I would save the cow.

    Spoiler:
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    Especially if the human happened to be Jen.
    I love how you always think of me - even when I'm not here
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    (Original post by AliRizzo)
    Humans will always eat meat regardless of whether it's a necessity or not. Therefore, human needs will always take precedence. What they want, they get, especially if it's at the expense of other animals. Not saying I agree with it 100% but that's how it is and always will be.

    Until we get dominated by a superior species that is.
    I hear this argument again and again, and it shows a lack of perspective. People have said for centuries that while they don't agree with such and such an unfairness, it's the way it's always been and the way it will always be. Over and over they have been proved wrong - the slave trade, disenfranchisement of women, criminalisation of homosexuality, and many other longstanding, oppressive traditions that people claimed would never go away have been abolished. Meat-eating will be next, or if not next, it's somewhere down the road.

    What's more, you are essentially attempting to justify an act based on what others are doing and the way the world is; ethics does not work like that.
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    (Original post by anosmianAcrimony)
    I hear this argument again and again, and it shows a lack of perspective. People have said for centuries that while they don't agree with such and such an unfairness, it's the way it's always been and the way it will always be. Over and over they have been proved wrong - the slave trade, disenfranchisement of women, criminalisation of homosexuality, and many other longstanding, oppressive traditions that people claimed would never go away have been abolished. Meat-eating will be next, or if not next, it's somewhere down the road.

    What's more, you are essentially attempting to justify an act based on what others are doing and the way the world is; ethics does not work like that.
    All of those examples you've mentioned have been oppression against HUMANS. People soon realised (some still haven't) that all humans have equal rights. You're deluded if you think there will be a change in the way animals are treated any time soon, if ever.

    And no, that's not why I'm trying to justify it. I like meat and so I will eat it. That is my justification.
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    (Original post by Mrgg)
    A pig wasn't born to be bacon a pig was born if live life just like you.


    I will fight for equal rights for animals - who wants to join me. Think for yourselves, stand up against this disgusting society- do the right thing.
    Hi I agree with animal rights but how can we ever start with animal rights when we have barely established humans rights for every single human? We should move onto animal rights when we can protect and deal with each other of the same species fairy and give them ALL the rights they deserve
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    I just read through this thread whilst eating a bacon sandwich
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    (Original post by AliRizzo)
    All of those examples you've mentioned have been oppression against HUMANS. People soon realised (some still haven't) that all humans have equal rights. You're deluded if you think there will be a change in the way animals are treated any time soon, if ever.
    People didn't consider slaves to be real people, and that's why they were able to justify exploiting them. Dehumanisation is a part of most such oppressive institutions, and this one is no different. Now obviously, your counterargument is that the animals we eat truly are not human to begin with. I say they're feeling, thinking creatures that should be afforded many of the same rights we enjoy anyway. As for who's deluded - I reiterate, history is on my side.

    (Original post by AliRizzo)
    And no, that's not why I'm trying to justify it. I like meat and so I will eat it. That is my justification.
    That isn't a valid justification either. It may be enjoyable for you, but you are not the only entity your meat-eating affects.
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    (Original post by anosmianAcrimony)
    As for who's deluded - I reiterate, history is on my side.
    So you believe there will soon be a law not to eat meat? Don't get your hopes up.
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    (Original post by Jenx301)
    I love how you always think of me - even when I'm not here
    Shut up go back under the rock you crawled out of you filthy peasant.
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    (Original post by AliRizzo)
    All of those examples you've mentioned have been oppression against HUMANS. People soon realised (some still haven't) that all humans have equal rights. You're deluded if you think there will be a change in the way animals are treated any time soon, if ever.

    And no, that's not why I'm trying to justify it. I like meat and so I will eat it. That is my justification.
    What kind of justification is this?


    The murderer can say: I like to murder so I will murder. That is my justification

    The rapist can say: I like to rape so I will rape. That is my justification

    The thief can say: I like to steal so I will steal. That is my justification.


    :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:
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    (Original post by TheGuyReturns)
    **** you
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    (Original post by ggismad)
    What kind of justification is this?


    The murderer can say: I like to murder so I will murder. That is my justification

    The rapist can say: I like to rape so I will rape. That is my justification

    The thief can say: I like to steal so I will steal. That is my justification.


    :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:
    Stop getting your knickers in a twist, I never said it wasn't flawed.
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    (Original post by AliRizzo)
    Stop getting your knickers in a twist, I never said it wasn't flawed.
    Sorry I only listen to rational unflawed points as I'm a intelligent individual.
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    (Original post by notgg)
    ohhhh Ethernal just got schooled with some facts. :rofl:
    #Ethernalforever :heart:
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    The extremists on this thread comparing meat eating to murder, slavery and persecution of minority groups, and using that to argue that "meat is next" really need to get a sense of perspective.

    It may be possible to go without meat today, but the fact remains that inclusion of meat in the diet is an inherent part of who we are as human beings - this is just biology. Therefore you cannot compare iy to things like murder, slavery, racial discrimination and other things which are acts of hatred rather than biology.

    Meat is nutritious, tastes good, and is a good base for all sorts of different meals. It is not going to go away just because some vegetarians and vegans wish it to.
 
 
 
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