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    Hi,

    So I'm about to start medicine this year, so I suppose anything could happen between now and graduation, however I'm the sort who has to think things through or they just get stuck in my head!

    I was wondering if anyone here had put some real thought into going to either the USA, Canada, Australia or nz, note I mean to train, not as someone who is a consultant (doubt they hang around here anyway).

    Info out there is very vague (or old) and frankly hard to navigate in some cases so I figure I'd toss this out here. Also most IMGs seem to be Indian or whatever, not coming from the UK, so sometimes their experiences are not as relevant. Also if anyone knows good links to look at, other forums or so, that's fine too.

    Thanks.
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    Information is hard to find. You'll just need to find people who have done it and ask them. For me, I've always wanted to work abroad (but more in LMICs) but I have been considering doing my specialist training in South Africa, but it's tricky and not as common as doctors who go to Australia/NZ to work. If you want to work in the USA you should consider doing the USMLE, or the parts which you can, during medical school - I know some of my classmates were trying to do the first part whilst in medical school.

    Since you're only in 1st year I'd consider trying to find some experience of healthcare in whatever places you are interested in. The reality might not be what you imagined, hence why I suggest speaking to people who have gone through the journey is a good shout. There are some people here on TSR who have/are thinking of going to Australia, if my memory serves correctly?
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    I am thinking about going to the US, but I have been to talks and understand some info about getting residencies there, taking USMLE and etc. it is a really hard process but i am still debating if i should pursue this route
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    The US is difficult to break into as there is lots of competition, they prioritise their own graduates, and you have to sit their exams (USMLE). That said, the greatest rewards (at least in terms of money, "status", and perhaps overall lifestyle) are probably all across the Atlantic where doctors are treated very well indeed. Their high incomes are usually mitigated by the fact that US doctors have spent 8+ years at university and often graduate with debt in the region of $500,000. You can obviously avoid both those millstones by training outside the US and entering their labour market as an IMG.

    Australia and NZ are probably the most well trodden paths. My understanding is that this is a fairly simple route if you want to work in a shortage specialty (e.g. GP, emergency medicine) or are willing to work far away from large cities. It's probably much harder if you plan to train in a mainstream specialty (e.g. surgery) in Melbourne or Sydney. Canada is probably similar.

    Most other places (e.g. South Africa, Singapore, India, etc) are probably best considered when you are a consultant. UK-trained specialists are in demand everywhere in the world (with the exception of the US, which does not usually recognise postgraduate training from other countries) but it could be a risk training outside the developed world (UK, US, Aus/NZ) unless you have a very specific plan in mind.

    If you're thinking about the US then it could be worth studying towards the USMLE alongside medical school. If you organise this carefully then there should be a lot of overlap between your USMLE work and the requirements of your medical school, although the USMLE requires a lot more fact-based knowledge that most equivalent UK exams.
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    For now: get through med school and consider the USMLE for the USA or Canada. Depending on your university's course there may be better or worse times to take it, and those times may be soon(ish).
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    I worked in NZ for a year but did my GP training first so was more employable and worked as a locum GP. At that time UK trained doctors could only get NZ jobs if they couldn't fill the job with natives.
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    hey guys Ive done Step 1 and Step 2 CK and am studying for Step 2 CS right now. Ill be starting my foundation training this year in Scotland if anyone has questions just message me.
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    FrenchUnicorn
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Hi,

    So I'm about to start medicine this year, so I suppose anything could happen between now and graduation, however I'm the sort who has to think things through or they just get stuck in my head!

    I was wondering if anyone here had put some real thought into going to either the USA, Canada, Australia or nz, note I mean to train, not as someone who is a consultant (doubt they hang around here anyway).

    Info out there is very vague (or old) and frankly hard to navigate in some cases so I figure I'd toss this out here. Also most IMGs seem to be Indian or whatever, not coming from the UK, so sometimes their experiences are not as relevant. Also if anyone knows good links to look at, other forums or so, that's fine too.

    Thanks.
    Hi !
    I did one year of med in France and I failed, so next year I'm hopefully going to Prague ^_^

    Feel free to PM ! I did a lot of research :

    USA : you can't enter to a med school withtout doing 4 years of uni to have a degree
    Canada : same ; and they take ~300 french per year for the whole country (Idk for the Brits, but I think it's kinda similar

    NZ : Try to apply to Otago Uni !! I was eligible , but it's for 2017

    Australia : complicated to enter a med school, you also have to get a degree first in sciences

    Hungary : Semmelweis Uni is a good one, there is an entrance exam, but it's not really competitive. A friend of mine is there (entrance exam in August, to start studying in september !)

    Czech Republic : Charles Uni of Prague is good too, I'm currently working on the entrance exam, he takes place in the country you want (he has to be on the list) and each country has a different date ( ex : 18th may in Prague ; ~15th July in Thailand) (~ 12 000$ per year)
    There is also the med school in Brno I heard about, I applied to and I'll pass the exam as well (~12 000$ per year)

    Romania : med school of Cluj, I have a friend there, and he's enjoying (~5600$ per year)

    If you go to Czech/Hungary, you can do 6 years and then go wherever you want in the world to continue. I'm planning to go to US after my 6 years

    PM if you wanna talk
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Hi,

    So I'm about to start medicine this year, so I suppose anything could happen between now and graduation, however I'm the sort who has to think things through or they just get stuck in my head!

    I was wondering if anyone here had put some real thought into going to either the USA, Canada, Australia or nz, note I mean to train, not as someone who is a consultant (doubt they hang around here anyway).

    Info out there is very vague (or old) and frankly hard to navigate in some cases so I figure I'd toss this out here. Also most IMGs seem to be Indian or whatever, not coming from the UK, so sometimes their experiences are not as relevant. Also if anyone knows good links to look at, other forums or so, that's fine too.

    Thanks.
    I had a conversation about this with a friend who is in final year of Medicine at Barts. I asked him about doing serious postgraduate training (long-term) in Medicine abroad (particularly the Gulf countries), but he suggested I should be skeptical about the equivalency of training between other countries and the UK. I'm not sure how true this is, but he believes it can be very difficult to get a job as a consultant in the UK after doing all your specialty training abroad, even if your degree is from the UK. Apparently lots of doctors with experience up to consultant level (in their own countries) are only able to get staff-grade jobs in the NHS, basically doing all the work of a consultant for less pay. My friend suggested I should only move abroad if I want to settle somewhere long-term with a view not to return to the NHS. He reckons that, if you want to return to the NHS after doing a few years of training abroad for experience, the more established route is to go somewhere like Australia or NZ. So I'm debating whether or not to start specialty training in another country. I only want to stay in the UK as far as FY2 (if that). But I am considering working abroad for a few years and then applying for GP training if I return as it's a shorter training scheme and I won't have to worry about equivalency.

    I think you should consider speaking to medical students in the years above you - they might have similar thoughts about where they want to do their training. Granted, it's quite unusual for anyone to think about doing long-term specialty training abroad as the consensus with most medical students will be to stay in the UK for their training. But some people may be seriously considering it now as the government in this country continues to **** over junior doctors and the NHS. I would also recommend finding doctors you meet on placement who have done some training abroad and ask them what their thoughts are.

    Spoiler:
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    I do think you're jumping the gun about IMG's from India. Most of them will have seen rare diseases and presentations that UK doctors might never see in their lives. So their experience is more than relevant for working in the NHS. We wouldn't have a health service without all our doctors from Indian hospitals.

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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Hi,

    So I'm about to start medicine this year, so I suppose anything could happen between now and graduation, however I'm the sort who has to think things through or they just get stuck in my head!

    I was wondering if anyone here had put some real thought into going to either the USA, Canada, Australia or nz, note I mean to train, not as someone who is a consultant (doubt they hang around here anyway).

    Info out there is very vague (or old) and frankly hard to navigate in some cases so I figure I'd toss this out here. Also most IMGs seem to be Indian or whatever, not coming from the UK, so sometimes their experiences are not as relevant. Also if anyone knows good links to look at, other forums or so, that's fine too.

    Thanks.
    If i could go back in time to med school i would do my USMLEs. After all they are similar to med school exams and much easier todo at the time then years later when you have gained experience but lost allth at med school theory knoweldge.
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    Regarding Canada, it is possible to move to Canada for fellowship and permanently for both GPs and specialists. Canada takes British trained GPs and for some areas where there is a shortage of GPs including places like NFLD and Nova Scotia, they will take you without any requirements for further training.

    Regarding specialists a lot of doctors will do a fellowship in Canada, these tend to be the terminal end of specialty training so things like interventional cardiology or electrophysiology etc etc. and some of them have stayed in the past, I don't know whether it is still possible but I do know it is a common thing to do your fellowship in a different country to learn techniques from elsewhere especially in procedural disciplines.

    This is all a long way off for you but if you want to keep your doors maximized regarding training or moving abroad the only thing you can do now is write the USMLEs.
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    Hi all,Thanks for replying, there was some useful stuff here. Infofor stats and jobs in Aus/NZ are incredibly hard to find, at least the USA putsout the stats on %s and match rates for various specialities, showing IMGsuccess rates and USMLE scores.I am initially interested in psychiatry, and it seems as ifthere’s been a big uptick in domestic applicants in the USA who are interestedin it, which naturally is a shame for me! Some are saying it’s a blip, some aresaying it doesn’t matter because it matches the increase in trainingprogrammes, some are saying it’s because of various things making psych moreappealing beyond just ‘lifestyle’. I haven’t checked the stats for internalmedicine/family medicine but I imagine they’re the same as ever. However Ithink you guys are right, study for the USMLE from day one, it can’t hurt.Anyway when it comes to Aus it’s very difficult to findstuff out which is why I asked here! I know that recently there are too manyAus med grads for their own training programmes which is a disaster, but I wascurious whether some specialities are still unpopular. Basically could I do mypsych or emergency medicine training over there? Is that likely, or aredomestic students filling all the spaces?When it comes to GP stuff, what’s the job market like ingeneral? Is it as unpopular there as it is here? These sorts of things I can’tfind out, if anyone could point me in the right direction I’d be rather happy.Also just to note I’m talking about being a fully qualified GP and moving,since the training is short enough to consider that.
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    No idea why all my line breaks disappeared, so here's a second copy:

    Hi all,Thanks for replying, there was some useful stuff here. Info
    for stats and jobs in Aus/NZ are incredibly hard to find, at least the USA puts
    out the stats on %s and match rates for various specialities, showing IMG success rates and USMLE scores

    .I am initially interested in psychiatry, and it seems as if
    there’s been a big uptick in domestic applicants in the USA who are interested in it, which naturally is a shame for me! Some are saying it’s a blip, some are saying it doesn’t matter because it matches the increase in training programmes, some are saying it’s because of various things making psych beyond just ‘lifestyle’. I haven’t checked the stats for internal medicine/family medicine but I imagine they’re the same as ever. However I think you guys are right, study for the USMLE from day one, it can’t hurt.

    Anyway when it comes to Aus it’s very difficult to find stuff out which is why I asked here! I know that recently there are too many Aus med grads for their own training programmes which is a disaster, but I was curious whether some specialities are still unpopular. Basically could I do my psych or emergency medicine training over there? Is that likely, or are domestic students filling all the spaces?

    When it comes to GP stuff, what’s the job market like in general? Is it as unpopular there as it is here? These sorts of things I can’t find out, if anyone could point me in the right direction I’d be rather happy.Also just to note I’m talking about being a fully qualified GP and moving,since the training is short enough to consider that.
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    I guess I'd hope in 5/6 years time things would be fixed and you won't have to contemplate all this crap. After all, that's what we're fighting for right now! I've only just qualified as an FY1 this year and the way I see it, I'm going to do FY2 so at least I have options and then take a year out. For me, I'm very open to the idea of not returning to Medicine. I've enjoyed my job but it's also been a lot of stressful service pressure and provision. Which leaves you with the opposite of job satisfaction. It's a pile of s*** really and I'd happily take all sorts to get out of this, even a massive pay cut. My happiness is the most valuable thing.

    Honestly, in 5 years I hope this is cleared up somehow. Or at least you'll know the future. Even if the government f*** this up, I have to hope they will have righted it or been replaced by another administration after that amount of time. You should continue now you've applied and just not worry yourself about this stuff until you get there.
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    Honestly speaking, I couldn't care less about doing any medical training at all in the UK now. Just making it from one year to the next through my medical degree has been hard enough that I don't think the effort is worth it any more with regards to working in the NHS. But I've made it this far and been rejected from other courses in the UK so I might as well finish what I started. I'm glad my medical degree won't be from the UK now, as I have no obligation to continue up to the end of FY2. My plan is just to finish Medicine to get a qualification and maybe sit the USMLE (haven't decided yet), otherwise I will be heading straight for any other country that will accept me straight out of medical school. I don't believe for a second that completing FY2 will keep my options open when the work of junior doctors is woefully under-appreciated and under-paid. By the time I make it to qualification, there could potentially be a UK medical licensing exam too - yet another hurdle to cross when it's already difficult enough for EU graduates to get FY jobs in the UK. Instead of wasting time here, I'd rather work my way up through the training system in another country where the earning potential is higher, the cost of living much lower than the UK and most importantly, where doctors get a bit more respect and appreciation for their work. Hence why I want to go to the Gulf countries, India/Pakistan or Singapore/Malaysia/HK etc.

    Failing that, I don't really see the appeal of being a doctor at all if it turns out to be difficult to get an Eastern European medical degree recognised by countries where I want to work. Medicine is just an ordinary day-in day-out job for me, and it's not what I want to spend the rest of my life doing unless I'm working somewhere fulfilling. That's certainly not in the UK. At this point in time, my work in performing arts has opened more doors for me than Medicine ever has - and that's after 4 years spent working towards a medical qualification with nothing to show for it. I've learned the hard way that I have to be happy doing what I do, and Medicine has been such a struggle before I've even started the job. Getting pushed back further from graduating, year after year, is so demoralising when I could spend my 20's travelling and getting more involved in show business. Medicine is so consuming and takes over your life that it doesn't allow for any other long-term commitments (unless you consider a family to be one). When you have other ambitions outside Medicine, it's best to get out as soon as possible, and that's exactly what I want to do. For my own health and happiness.
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    Anyone had any experience training in the Republic of Ireland?
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    (Original post by seaholme)
    It's a pile of s*** really and I'd happily take all sorts to get out of this, even a massive pay cut. My happiness is the most valuable thing.
    THIS. Exactly. My plan is to finish F2 and then take some time out to have a Big Think.
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    After the developments between the BMA and JH over the last few days, I have made my decision. I will get my medical degree but I will never work as a doctor in the NHS. Not at FY level, not for specialty training. This new deal is worse than JH's initial proposition.
 
 
 
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