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    (Original post by CAPTAINSHAZAM)
    There is no observable empirical evidence for a change of kind nor can we observe it, And why is we can never find fossil records for the creatures in between the evolution like a hybrid of the transformation. Evolution isnt observable so it cant be tested so its unfalsifiable and cant be proven.
    Actually there's tonnes. please go and look it up properly.

    For those creationists here these videos should help you to understand common sense: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS5v...3481305829426D
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    (Original post by Alexion)
    Basically, she's dedicated to serving her father, her husband, and her children? That don't sound so great to me
    No her children should literally be crawling for every need if they knew what was there and what rewards this literally teaches respect for parents and how they should be looked after and cared for. For the father point if a father treats her daughters right will be protected from the fire, where does it say that she is dedicated to her father? A son or daughter should fulfill the needs and go above and beyond to look after the parents but the daughter is a safe haven for the father had she been treated right.
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    (Original post by CAPTAINSHAZAM)
    There is no observable empirical evidence for a change of kind nor can we observe it, And why is we can never find fossil records for the creatures in between the evolution like a hybrid of the transformation.
    Ah, the famous, pseudoscientific 'missing link' hypothesis. I won't even try and explain why that's nonsense. :rolleyes:

    Evolution isnt observable so it cant be tested so its unfalsifiable and cant be proven.
    Some statements really are self-discrediting...
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    (Original post by Tahira__)
    Maybe because that was your test in this life
    If God is all-knowing then a test cannot be the true state of things. A test is only conducted when there is doubt and uncertainty concerning the outcome, but this cannot happen if God knows everything.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    If God is all-knowing then a test cannot be the true state of things. A test is only conducted when there is doubt and uncertainty concerning the outcome, but this cannot happen if God knows everything.
    We are all given free will regardless of the outcome that God already knows YOU chose the outcome, from an islamic perspective we were all given the question to be an angel or human and we chose to be human because of the rewards we may be given.
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    No her children should literally be crawling for every need if they knew what was there and what rewards this literally teaches respect for parents and how they should be looked after and cared for. For the father point if a father treats her daughters right will be protected from the fire, where does it say that she is dedicated to her father? A son or daughter should fulfill the needs and go above and beyond to look after the parents but the daughter is a safe haven for the father had she been treated right.
    Can someone pull this apart for me? I literally can't even right now.

    Plantagenet Crown Hydeman Peroxidation
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    (Original post by CAPTAINSHAZAM)
    We are all given free will regardless of the outcome that God already knows YOU chose the outcome, from an islamic perspective we were all given the question to be an angel or human and we chose to be human because of the rewards we may be given.
    Irrelevant, knowing an outcome with certainty nullifies the test and I won't address the nonsense about angels as you have not an iota of evidence for that.

    And that sounds awfully convenient when the truth is that given such a choice by Allah I would choose to be an angel, who the hell wouldn't? To be a magical being who can't get sick or die, not to mention the certainty of never being tortured in hell.
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    Because why should they? Religion is, to me, entirely ridiculous - if you happened to have been born into a Christian family, you'd probably be a practising Christian. If you were born Muslim, you'd be a Muslim. If you were born into a family of Hindus, you'd be a Hindu. Religion is not based on fact, it's based on habit, and instruction from those who you love and trust. Why should one religion be right and the others wrong? Why do you believe in the Christian God, but not Zeus, or Apollo? Why do you believe in Brahman, but not the Loch Ness Monster? The reason is because you weren't born up believing in Nessie, you were brought up believing in God.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Irrelevant, knowing an outcome with certainty nullifies the test and I won't address the nonsense about angels as you have not an iota of evidence for that.
    Yes i do because from an islamic perspective we are told this, and the way i have evidence for this is the Quran and its long winded to get into a debate about proving this especially over written text, knowing an outcome doesnt nullify anything its like a teacher giving you the option saying you can either get a grade C knowing she believes this is the easiest option for you or you can sit a test in the hope of getting a better grade, if a person who has free will chooses the latter how can someone then complain about the outcome.
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    Sorry if this has already been discussed, I skipped to page 15. I don't see how you can use the argument 'humans are so complex and amazing that they can't just come out of nowhere!' - when you are literally saying that humans were created by another being even MORE complex and amazing (if they supposedly have the ability to CREATE THE UNIVERSE). So where did they come from? How can they possibly exist without being created by something else? If you believe that a God can exist independently of anything else, then why is so bizarre that humans and planets can exist independently of anything else?
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    (Original post by CAPTAINSHAZAM)
    Yes i do because from an islamic perspective we are told this, and the way i have evidence for this is the Quran and its long winded to get into a debate about proving this especially over written text,
    The Quran is not evidence, it's circular reasoning and no better than using the Harry Potter books to prove Hogwarts exists. Next.

    knowing an outcome doesnt nullify anything its like a teacher giving you the option saying you can either get a grade C knowing she believes this is the easiest option for you or you can sit a test in the hope of getting a better grade, if a person who has free will chooses the latter how can someone then complain about the outcome.
    It does nullify the test. Your teacher can have a very good idea that you may end up with a C, but he/she does not know that with 100%, absolute certainty. If he/she did then it would be entirely pointless and irrelevant to set a test because they would know the results of the test in advance, meaning it wasn't a test! i.e. a task to gauge your abilities in a certain field.
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    (Original post by Alexion)
    Can someone pull this apart for me? I literally can't even right now.

    Plantagenet Crown Hydeman Peroxidation
    It's incoherent babble... I couldn't pull this apart even if I could be bothered. :sigh:
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    (Original post by huddledapple)
    Sorry if this has already been discussed, I skipped to page 15. I don't see how you can use the argument 'humans are so complex and amazing that they can't just come out of nowhere!' - when you are literally saying that humans were created by another being even MORE complex and amazing (if they supposedly have the ability to CREATE THE UNIVERSE). So where did they come from? How can they possibly exist without being created by something else? If you believe that a God can exist independently of anything else, then why is so bizarre that humans and planets can exist independently of anything else?
    And this is where theists usually resort to Special Pleading: "Everything complex needs a creator, except God!"
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    The Quran is not evidence, it's circular reasoning and no better than using the Harry Potter books to prove Hogwarts exists. Next.



    It does nullify the test. Your teacher can have a very good idea that you may end up with a C, but he/she does not know that with 100%, absolute certainty. If he/she did then it would be entirely pointless and irrelevant to set it a test because you would know the results of the test in advance, meaning it wasn't a test! i.e. a task to gauge your abilities in a certain field.
    First point how can science over 1400 years ago that in that time wasnt even discovered by a man be accurate and validated TODAY?

    No because youre missing the point, we have free will and we chose to do the test regardless if knowing or not knowing the outcome, we were given the choice not forced to. Im not going to get into a religious argument with you because its tedious and points wont be given justice over the Internet.
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    (Original post by Tahira__)
    If we are not complex, then I would like to see anyone try to come up with something more great then a human being
    You wouldn't be able to do that, or if you even tried to
    You wouldn't be able to do it without using gods creation anyway
    Easy, we're ****

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    (Original post by CAPTAINSHAZAM)
    First point how can science over 1400 years ago that in that time wasnt even discovered by a man be accurate and validated TODAY?
    The Quran contains no such science, that's the point. Besides, I'd rather not get into the debate about the so-called scientific miracles of the Qur'an, it's been done to death and this thread isn't the place for it.

    No because youre missing the point, we have free will and we chose to do the test regardless if knowing or not knowing the outcome, we were given the choice not forced to. Im not going to get into a religious argument with you because its tedious and points wont be given justice over the Internet.
    You're simply stringing words together into phrases that don't actually mean anything or resolve the issue. If God knows the choices you make before you're born then you cannot make any other decision therefore nullifying free will as well as making a test void. All that's required is omniscience, God doesn't need to be physically forcing you to do certain actions.
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    Similarly to the above post by Chris-Graham. Many, if not most individuals only believe in God because the idea of God and the afterlife was reinforced during childhood - to the extent where their parents beliefs became their own beliefs.
    Personally, I don't mind the concept of God but I don't believe that 'God' would set certain standards for his/her/its followers to abide by and that God would condemn certain individuals purely because they don't believe in the same faith or are gay or divorced etc.
    What I do dislike is organised religion. Through my own experiences, I've witnessed people after people saying that they can't do something like eat pork or be in a relationship because their religion condemns it but when I've asked why they don't know the actual reason.
    The younger generations are essentially brainwashed by the older generation and few would question their beliefs. Thankfully, some are questioning their beliefs and although they haven't lost faith; it's nice to see that they're not believing everything that is said to them.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    The Quran contains no such science, that's the point. Besides, I'd rather not get into the debate about the so-called scientific miracles of the Qur'an, it's been done to death and this thread isn't the place for it.



    You're simply stringing words together into phrases that don't actually mean anything or resolve the issue. If God knows the choices you make before you're born then you cannot make any other decision therefore nullifying free will as well as making a test void. All that's required is omniscience, God doesn't need to be physically forcing you to do certain actions.
    No such science? Human embryology? roots of mountains? Cosmology and the universe at one point being nothing but a cloud of "smoke". People like yourself have probably never read the Quran yet still think they can have some sort of informed opinion on the science in the Quran. How can you comment about the technicalities of something youve never read?
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    (Original post by CAPTAINSHAZAM)
    No such science? Human embryology? roots of mountains? Cosmology and the universe at one point being nothing but a cloud of "smoke". People like yourself have probably never read the Quran yet still think they can have some sort of informed opinion on the science in the Quran. How can you comment about the technicalities of something youve never read?
    As I say, they've all been refuted and much of that is wrong, this isn't a thread for that topic.

    Don't make baseless accusations, I have read the Qur'an.
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    (Original post by CAPTAINSHAZAM)
    No such science? Human embryology? roots of mountains? Cosmology and the universe at one point being nothing but a cloud of "smoke". People like yourself have probably never read the Quran yet still think they can have some sort of informed opinion on the science in the Quran. How can you comment about the technicalities of something youve never read?
    All of this goading us to read the Quran...

    With arguments as flawed as yours, I would be trying to keep the Quran to myself to be honest.
 
 
 
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