Turn on thread page Beta
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    Well, even 300 years ago it was acceptable to marry girls that young. As soon as a girl reached puberty (meaning she is ready to have children) she was thought of as being ready for marriage. By today's standards, yes, that is too young, but these things change and it was considered the norm in the olden days. So just because you find this "simply unacceptable" it means Islam is not the right religion? It's not a good enough reason for abandoning your religion.
    It's a good enough reason if he says it is, who are you to dictate whether someone else's reasons are justified?

    Out of interest, what reason would you consider good enough for leaving Islam?
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    No. Didn't say that.
    That is what you implied. If something was the norm in the olden days and not now then it isn't acceptable in modern times. You can't have it both ways.
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ExMooseLDN)
    I understand what you mean, but firstly it was only part of why I left, and secondly, I'm sorry but Islam is supposed to be timeless and apply to all times. By this logic, it would be okay for me to marry a girl at six, as long as I don't consumate this marriage until she first has a period. After that, it is acceptable to have sex, regardless of her emotional maturity. Aisha was not emotionally prepared, she was still playing with dolls after she was married off to Muhammad.
    Yes, it is timeless and still applies to today. Just because we have laws today against this sort of thing doesn't necessarily make it 'wrong' - we have simply been raised to believe it's wrong. In some cultures this is still practiced, but by Western standards it is instantly labeled as 'pedophilia'. What I'm saying is social norms are always changing.

    The Prophet consummated the marriage with Aisha once she hit puberty, and the Qur'an actually prohibits sex with prepubescent children. Playing with dolls doesn't make her emotionally unprepared. Judging by hadith she was very happy with the Prophet (saw) and he treated her very well.
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    That is what you implied. If something was the norm in the olden days and not now then it isn't acceptable in modern times. You can't have it both ways.
    Social norms change all the time. No country has the same legal age for marriage, for example, because what's considered acceptable in one country might not be acceptable in another country. The fact that this would be considered 'pedophilia' today, in most countries, doesn't make it wrong.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ExMooseLDN)
    Hello,
    I'm an 18 year old ex-muslim atheist studying a2's in London, AMA
    How have you 'left' Islam?

    Why did your knowledge of geology dissuade you from Islam? Do you not think that others who have studied the Quran and its meaning may have come to these doubts before you, but understand what it actually means?

    If you're an 'ex-Muslim' why have you not told your parents? When do you plan to do this? You just pretend to be a Muslim now?

    If you had doubts in Islam, maybe you should speak to an Imam who understands the Quran far better than you I assume...?

    Was your faith that weak that some doubts caused you to leave Islam? So you must be really easily persuaded and 'indoctrinated'?
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    Ben and Jerrys or Vodka?
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Mjcal1)
    Genuine question... Do you think it's acceptable for a 10 year old girl (who's gone through puberty) to marry a grown man?
    You ever heard of Romeo and Juliet...?

    You know Romeo married a 10-11 year old Juliet and everyone loves that plot? But when put into context with Islam it's unacceptable? I know it's a play but it was written inn times when marriage like this was normal for everyone where men who were much older married much younger woman...
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by chemting)
    "but these things change and it was considered the norm in the olden days"
    Like I've said to the others, social norms are always changing, and not all societies will view this the same way. That doesn't make it 'wrong', therefore the Qur'an is still applicable today. What may be considered wrong in the EU may be perfectly acceptable in another region.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    Yes, it is timeless and still applies to today. Just because we have laws today against this sort of thing doesn't necessarily make it 'wrong' - we have simply been raised to believe it's wrong. In some cultures this is still practiced, but by Western standards it is instantly labeled as 'pedophilia'. What I'm saying is social norms are always changing.

    The Prophet consummated the marriage with Aisha once she hit puberty, and the Qur'an actually prohibits sex with prepubescent children. Playing with dolls doesn't make her emotionally unprepared. Judging by hadith she was very happy with the Prophet (saw) and he treated her very well.
    See this is where we disagree, you feel as though it is society that has raised us to believe that it is wrong, and don't see an issue with it yourself whereas I personally do not agree that it is okay that a child so young married supposedly the most perfect man to have ever walked on this earth. I mean how can she consent to a marriage at the age of six, or even nine for that matter? At those ages, children are still children, no matter how long ago they lived.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    Ben and Jerrys or Vodka?
    Ben and Jerrys anyday, I personally don't drink
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    Would you find it hard to start consuming alcohol and non-halal food?
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    where u from?
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jeff548)
    You ever heard of Romeo and Juliet...?

    You know Romeo married a 10-11 year old Juliet and everyone loves that plot? But when put into context with Islam it's unacceptable? I know it's a play but it was written inn times when marriage like this was normal for everyone where men who were much older married much younger woman...
    Shakespeare does not assert a moral high ground over everyone else. Islam does. Therefore, please hold Islam to a higher standard than the writings of a drunken, illiterate adulterer.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    Like I've said to the others, social norms are always changing, and not all societies will view this the same way. That doesn't make it 'wrong', therefore the Qur'an is still applicable today. What may be considered wrong in the EU may be perfectly acceptable in another region.
    So then, there is no "objective unchanging morality"... just a world full of "bidah"?
    How can you say Qur'an is applicable and timeless when you've just said certain aspects of the prophets life is not applicable?
    So is morality changing with time or not changing?
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ExMooseLDN)
    See this is where we disagree, you feel as though it is society that has raised us to believe that it is wrong, and don't see an issue with it yourself whereas I personally do not agree that it is okay that a child so young married supposedly the most perfect man to have ever walked on this earth. I mean how can she consent to a marriage at the age of six, or even nine for that matter? At those ages, children are still children, no matter how long ago they lived.
    You disagree with it now, but had you been born earlier and in a different society perhaps you wouldn't look at it the same way. Society is what shapes our views, and it's the reason why today most people will believe this is pedophilia, as opposed to say 100 or more years ago when this was widely practiced and accepted.

    Also, no one knows for sure how old she was when they consummated the marriage. Scholars have had a lot of debates over this. However what's certain is that Aisha had gone through puberty before the marriage was consummated, meaning she was physically ready. If a girl is physically mature enough to bear children, why is it wrong for her to be married? You seem to appreciate science a lot more, and scientifically puberty is an indicator that the girl is now ready to have children.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jeff548)
    How have you 'left' Islam?

    Why did your knowledge of geology dissuade you from Islam? Do you not think that others who have studied the Quran and its meaning may have come to these doubts before you, but understand what it actually means?

    If you're an 'ex-Muslim' why have you not told your parents? When do you plan to do this? You just pretend to be a Muslim now?

    If you had doubts in Islam, maybe you should speak to an Imam who understands the Quran far better than you I assume...?

    Was your faith that weak that some doubts caused you to leave Islam? So you must be really easily persuaded and 'indoctrinated'?
    I'm only gonna answer the questions I haven't answered before.

    Left in the sense that I no longer believe in it.

    I prefer to think for myself. You just assume I do not understand the Quran, but at the end of the day, I have done my research, as well as read the Quran for myself, and its tafsir whenever i've had doubts. Like for example, one of the doubts I had was about surat al kahf when the sun is said to be 'setting in a muddy spring' according to dhul qarnayn. In the tafsir, I found that this was referring to the ocean. Whilst I do not 100% agree with this interpretation, I still accepted it as a possible explanation. I do however challenge you to find an acceptable explanation for the mountains as pegs, as I have not found one yet.

    I do pretend to be muslim, but that is for my personal peace of mind.

    And finally, go search the definition of indoctrinated, I think it applies more to you than me. At least I'm thinking for myself. Rational thinking beats blind faith anyday.
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by chemting)
    So then, there is no "objective unchanging morality"... just a world full of "bidah"?
    How can you say Qur'an is applicable and timeless when you've just said certain aspects of the prophets life is not applicable?
    So is morality changing with time or not changing?
    Yeah exactly.
    Where did I say certain aspects of the Prophet's life are not applicable?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    You disagree with it now, but had you been born earlier and in a different society perhaps you wouldn't look at it the same way. Society is what shapes our views, and it's the reason why today most people will believe this is pedophilia, as opposed to say 100 or more years ago when this was widely practiced and accepted.

    Also, no one knows for sure how old she was when they consummated the marriage. Scholars have had a lot of debates over this. However what's certain is that Aisha had gone through puberty before the marriage was consummated, meaning she was physically ready. If a girl is physically mature enough to bear children, why is it wrong for her to be married? You seem to appreciate science a lot more, and scientifically puberty is an indicator that the girl is now ready to have children.
    Had i been born in the 1500s, I would probably think slavery was not wrong too. By your logic, why is slavery wrong? Btw, slavery was practiced in the prophets time too, and he even married a slave by force (Search Safiyah I think).
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    Social norms change all the time. No country has the same legal age for marriage, for example, because what's considered acceptable in one country might not be acceptable in another country. The fact that this would be considered 'pedophilia' today, in most countries, doesn't make it wrong.
    You seem to be missing the point. What Muhammad did is now seen as wrong in most of the civilised world, meaning he is not a perfect example for all time.
    Offline

    6
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jeff548)
    You ever heard of Romeo and Juliet...?

    You know Romeo married a 10-11 year old Juliet and everyone loves that plot? But when put into context with Islam it's unacceptable? I know it's a play but it was written inn times when marriage like this was normal for everyone where men who were much older married much younger woman...
    How old was Romeo though?

    The problem is that if the prophet did it, it's acceptable for people to do it now. You can't just say it's paedophila now but it's okay 1400 years ago. If religion is timeless, you can't justify things with "it was normal back then". You know what I mean?
 
 
 
Poll
Which accompaniment is best?
Useful resources
AtCTs

Ask the Community Team

Got a question about the site content or our moderation? Ask here.

Welcome Lounge

Welcome Lounge

We're a friendly bunch. Post here if you're new to TSR.

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.