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    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    Yeah exactly.
    Is that a reference to Bidah or "religious innovation"?

    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    Where did I say certain aspects of the Prophet's life are not applicable?
    ..

    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    Well, even 300 years ago it was acceptable to marry girls that young. As soon as a girl reached puberty (meaning she is ready to have children) she was thought of as being ready for marriage. By today's standards, yes, that is too young, but these things change and it was considered the norm in the olden days. So just because you find this "simply unacceptable" it means Islam is not the right religion? It's not a good enough reason for abandoning your religion.
    So you agree Islam or morality is subjective and not objective and timeless?
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    (Original post by Jeff548)
    You ever heard of Romeo and Juliet...?

    You know Romeo married a 10-11 year old Juliet and everyone loves that plot? But when put into context with Islam it's unacceptable? I know it's a play but it was written inn times when marriage like this was normal for everyone where men who were much older married much younger woman...
    This comparison is void because no one follows Romeo and Juliet and says that they are perfect example for all time, try again.
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    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    You disagree with it now, but had you been born earlier and in a different society perhaps you wouldn't look at it the same way. Society is what shapes our views, and it's the reason why today most people will believe this is pedophilia, as opposed to say 100 or more years ago when this was widely practiced and accepted.

    Also, no one knows for sure how old she was when they consummated the marriage. Scholars have had a lot of debates over this. However what's certain is that Aisha had gone through puberty before the marriage was consummated, meaning she was physically ready. If a girl is physically mature enough to bear children, why is it wrong for her to be married? You seem to appreciate science a lot more, and scientifically puberty is an indicator that the girl is now ready to have children.
    Overwhelming majority of Islamic scholars agree she was 6 when Muhammad married her and 9 when he raped her and these ages are from Sahih Hadeeth.

    Let's not be ridiculous here. No 9 year old girl is physically or mentally ready to have sex. Puberty is a process that occurs over many years, not a point that is reached and completed once a girl has her first period.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Overwhelming majority of Islamic scholars agree she was 6 when Muhammad married her and 9 when he raped her and these ages are from Sahih Hadeeth.

    Let's not be ridiculous here. No 9 year old girl is physically or mentally ready to have sex. Puberty is a process that occurs over many years, not a point that is reached and completed once a girl has her first period.
    How do you know so much about Islam? I use to practice it quite a bit and you probably know more than me lol
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    (Original post by TheMouseyS)
    Would you find it hard to start consuming alcohol and non-halal food?
    I already eat non halal food, but I don't drink alcohol because I prefer to be in full control of what my actions. I have tried it before though and absolutely hated it.


    (Original post by HS2030)
    where u from?
    Morocco
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    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    You disagree with it now, but had you been born earlier and in a different society perhaps you wouldn't look at it the same way. Society is what shapes our views, and it's the reason why today most people will believe this is pedophilia, as opposed to say 100 or more years ago when this was widely practiced and accepted.
    As somebody who claims a divine mandate, you're not allowed to appeal to the old, 'that's just how things were' excuse like the rest of us. If you claim to be following an absolute, perfect morality revealed by God as true for all times (as you must, being a Muslim), then you can't appeal to a lack of human progress to justify slavery. In being a Muslim, you claim to be above that.

    Taking your worldview, slavery was either always wrong, or always acceptable within the rules set by the Islam. Which is it? (Either way, you end up contradicting one of your earlier claims, which may be one reason for you to re-consider your worldview.)
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    (Original post by Mjcal1)
    How do you know so much about Islam? I use to practice it quite a bit and you probably know more than me lol
    Most of what I've learnt is here from TSR's religion section :yep:
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    (Original post by Mjcal1)
    How do you know so much about Islam? I use to practice it quite a bit and you probably know more than me lol
    This is the thing, most people assume just because someone is not muslim or no longer muslim, they know nothing about Islam, whereas in reality, this mentality comes from the fact that most muslims think that we leave Islam or choose not to be muslim for purely sinful reasons. They do not understand that it is possible to not believe in Islam due to intellectual reasons.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    As somebody who claims a divine mandate, you're not allowed to appeal to the old, 'that's just how things were' excuse like the rest of us. If you claim to be following an absolute, perfect morality revealed by God as true for all times (as you must, being a Muslim), then you can't appeal to a lack of human progress to justify slavery.

    Taking your worldview, slavery was either always wrong, or always acceptable within the rules set by the Islam. Which is it? (Either way, you end up contradicting one of your earlier claims, which may be one reason for you to re-consider your worldview.)
    Couldn't have said it better myself.
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    (Original post by Jeff548)
    You ever heard of Romeo and Juliet...?

    You know Romeo married a 10-11 year old Juliet and everyone loves that plot? But when put into context with Islam it's unacceptable? I know it's a play but it was written inn times when marriage like this was normal for everyone where men who were much older married much younger woman...
    People don't perceive Shakespeare as word of God and dictate their life by it accordingly.
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    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    If a girl is physically mature enough to bear children, why is it wrong for her to be married?
    Because physical maturity is reached far sooner than emotional maturity.

    How you manage to not recognise this is absolutely horrifying.
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    Also, theology and beliefs aside, do you think you'll miss the feeling of belonging and community aspect of muslim life? I know I definitely would
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    (Original post by ExMooseLDN)
    This is the thing, most people assume just because someone is not muslim or no longer muslim, they know nothing about Islam, whereas in reality, this mentality comes from the fact that most muslims think that we leave Islam or choose not to be muslim for purely sinful reasons. They do not understand that it is possible to not believe in Islam due to intellectual reasons.
    ^^^ I just couldn't come to terms with the fact that most people aren't Muslims and would go to hell. On top of that, the amounts of non-practicing Muslims or Muslims from different sects that believe in different things, commiting biddah (religious innovation)or shirk (polytheism...eventhough that may not be they're intention. Like praying to a grave etc). Lol, there are an awful lot of people going to hell compared to people going to paradise.

    But oh yeah 'all loving' 'most compassionate' God etc etc. I'm not even close to being the most compassionate but I would never make someone burn, let alone for enternity.

    The fact is, people believe in a certain religion because that's what they were born into. I watched a documentary on North Korea...they don't hear anything about the outside world. What will come of them? I mean they pray to their supreme leader....

    Apologies for the long post but there are so many things I just don't like about religion. The lack of proof most of all. If God is so powerful, why wouldn't he prove his existence to people and let them decide if they want to follow him. (We have the next best thing though...an old book in a different language yaaay)
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    (Original post by Kiytt)
    Because physical maturity is reached far sooner than emotional maturity.

    How you manage to not recognise this is absolutely horrifying.
    Even more horrifying considering that, if I remember rightly, yasminkattan's situation is the diametric opposite of OP's: she's a convert to Islam who hasn't told her parents about her conversion. It somewhat alarms me that somebody who's had the benefits of a modern, Western education and, as far as I know, no parental brainwashing, can indulge in apologetics of this kind.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Quran is meant to be perfect word of God so all it takes is one error or questionable verse in there to disprove it for someone.
    Exactly. His description didn't seem as though he investigated the verse enough to confirm it was an error.
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    (Original post by ExMooseLDN)
    Thank you. There are many factors tbh, too many to list here, but it is definitely not just scientific errors. I also disagree with many other aspects, like the prophets marriage to Aisha, and the fact that Islam does not condemn slavery.
    OK I understand. I just thought what you wrote in your first post were your sole reasons. Have a good one.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    Even more horrifying considering that, if I remember rightly, yasminkattan's situation is the diametric opposite of OP's: she's a convert to Islam who hasn't told her parents about her conversion. It somewhat alarms me that somebody who's had the benefits of a modern, Western education and, as far as I know, no parental brainwashing, can indulge in apologetics of this kind.
    At least indoctrination somewhat rationalises someone's conviction in their religious beliefs. Believing solely on your own accord is inexplicable.
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    (Original post by Kiytt)
    At least indoctrination somewhat rationalises someone's conviction in their religious beliefs. Believing solely on your own accord is inexplicable.
    In what way is it inexplicable? Elaborate
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    (Original post by Kiytt)
    At least indoctrination somewhat rationalises someone's conviction in their religious beliefs. Believing solely on your own accord is inexplicable.
    People could be indoctrinated by their circle of friends... And there are good aspects of every religion that people fall in love with. I don't see the harm in it tbh
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    (Original post by Mjcal1)
    People could be indoctrinated by their circle of friends... And there are good aspects of every religion that people fall in love with. I don't see the harm in it tbh
    The harm in it comes when it is forced upon people
 
 
 
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