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    (Original post by ExMooseLDN)
    In what way is it inexplicable? Elaborate
    Obviously context is essential, but from my perspective: if someone was scientifically educated, not home-schooled, and had no family members following a religion, yet had unwavering conviction in their religious beliefs, I'd fail to comprehend how one could maintain those beliefs—aside from perhaps a desperate need for purpose and comfort of an afterlife.
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    (Original post by ExMooseLDN)
    The harm in it comes when it is forced upon people
    I agree. My response was about the girl converting.
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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    Exactly. His description didn't seem as though he investigated the verse enough to confirm it was an error.
    The peg thing is an error.
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    (Original post by Kiytt)
    Obviously context is essential, but from my perspective: if someone was scientifically educated, not home-schooled, and had no family members following a religion, yet had unwavering conviction in their religious beliefs, I'd fail to comprehend how one could maintain those beliefs—aside from perhaps a desperate need for purpose and comfort of an afterlife.
    Agreed, but some people start to think outside of what they have been taught. They question their very own way of thinking, and think from a different perspective. It's part of being open minded.
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    (Original post by Mjcal1)
    People could be indoctrinated by their circle of friends... And there are good aspects of every religion that people fall in love with. I don't see the harm in it tbh
    That could happen, yes. At the age of 10 or so, though? Would children even think to try convert their peers at that age?

    Why don't we just teach the "good aspects" of religion without the parabolic filler which simply convolutes the message?
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    (Original post by ExMooseLDN)
    Agreed, but some people start to think outside of what they have been taught. They question their very own way of thinking, and think from a different perspective. It's part of being open minded.
    I'm glad you were able to do that. However, some people simply don't have the capacity to analyse their faith critically; or, alternatively, they lack the will to utilise their capacity to out of a fear they may lose faith.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    You seem to be missing the point. What Muhammad did is now seen as wrong in most of the civilised world, meaning he is not a perfect example for all time...

    This comparison is void because no one follows Romeo and Juliet and says that they are perfect example for all time, try again.

    ....Overwhelming majority of Islamic scholars agree she was 6 when Muhammad married her and 9 when he raped her and these ages are from Sahih Hadeeth.

    Let's not be ridiculous here. No 9 year old girl is physically or mentally ready to have sex. Puberty is a process that occurs over many years, not a point that is reached and completed once a girl has her first period.
    These fallacious appeals to moral/cultural relativism, whataboutery and shaky claims alluding to supposed earlier puberty, amongst children in 7th century Arabia, are still being repeated :dry: If you had a pound for every time, huh. What's worse, apparently ones a "Convert".

    (Original post by ExMooseLDN)
    This is the thing, most people assume just because someone is not muslim or no longer muslim, they know nothing about Islam, whereas in reality, this mentality comes from the fact that most muslims think that we leave Islam or choose not to be muslim for purely sinful reasons. They do not understand that it is possible to not believe in Islam due to intellectual reasons.
    This reluctance by (and I don't expect) Muslims to admit to their being "Valid reasons" for apostasy, can be easily explained. Muslims have the presupposition Islam is "perfect". This pro-islamic bias, results in them being incapable of admitting to their being "valid reasons", for apostasy. Why would they indicate Islam is a flawed superstition, by admitting to their being 'valid reasons' for apostasy? Islam to them is perfect.Hence why you get tiring old ex-muslim cliches i.e. "you left to do haram" etc, etc.
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    (Original post by Kiytt)
    That could happen, yes. At the age of 10 or so, though? Would children even think to try convert their peers at that age?

    Why don't we just teach the "good aspects" of religion without the parabolic filler which simply convolutes the message?
    If only it was that easy.
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    (Original post by string56)
    These fallacious appeals to moral/cultural relativism, whataboutery and shaky claims alluding to supposed earlier puberty, amongst children in 7th century Arabia, are still being repeated :dry: If you had a pound for every time, huh. What's worse, apparently ones a "Convert".


    This reluctance (and I don't expect) by Muslims to admit to their being "Valid reasons" for apostasy, can be easily explained. Muslims have the presupposition Islam is "perfect". This pro-islamic bias, results in them being incapable of admitting to their being "valid reasons", for apostasy. Why would they indicate Islam is a flawed superstition, by admitting to their being 'valid reasons' for apostasy? Islam to them is perfect.Hence why you get tiring old ex-muslim cliches i.e. "you left to do haram" etc, etc.
    Apostasy....I still don't know how I managed to justify to myself what's said about that....smfh

    Would be blasphemous to think otherwise so you just lose all critical thinking ability I guess.
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    (Original post by Mjcal1)
    If only it was that easy.
    It's not? I remember very little details of the parables from being indoctrinated as a child, but I remember the sentiments being taught.

    Perhaps if we didn't teach young children who are incapable of logical thought about the existence of God, we wouldn't need to dumb the moral message down by dressing them with parabolic stories.
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    (Original post by Mjcal1)
    Apostasy....I still don't know how I managed to justify to myself what's said about that....smfh
    I'm assuming you're a fellow Ex-Muslim? Nice to meet you :hat2:

    Would be blasphemous to think otherwise so you just lose all critical thinking ability I guess.
    Yes, inquisitive thinking and the full utilisation of one's critical thinking faculties is somewhat stifled when you have warnings by some Muslim clerics and such quotes from Islamic scripture as...

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    'O ye who believe! Ask not questions about things, which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble… Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account lost their faith’ [Quran5:101–02].

    ‘Allah’s Apostle said, ‘Satan comes to one of you and says, ‘Who created so-and-so? ‘Till he says, ‘Who has created your Lord?’ So, when he inspires such a question, one should seek refuge with Allah and give up such thoughts’ [Buhkari 4:496; Muslim 1:242–43]

    ...and if that's not enough, there is such a thing as "apostasy" and "blasphemy laws"- in such religions. So "believers" should be really careful in their "questioning".
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    (Original post by string56)
    I'm assuming you're a fellow Ex-Muslim? Nice to meet you :hat2:



    Yes, inquisitive thinking and the full utilisation of one's critical thinking faculties is somewhat stifled when you have warnings by some Muslim clerics and such quotes from Islamic scripture as...
    Spoiler:
    Show
    'O ye who believe! Ask not questions about things, which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble… Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account lost their faith’ [Quran5:101–02].

    ‘Allah’s Apostle said, ‘Satan comes to one of you and says, ‘Who created so-and-so? ‘Till he says, ‘Who has created your Lord?’ So, when he inspires such a question, one should seek refuge with Allah and give up such thoughts’ [Buhkari 4:496; Muslim 1:242–43]

    ...and if that's not enough, there is such a thing as "apostasy" and "blasphemy laws"- in such religions. So "believers" should be really careful in their "questioning".
    First time I've ever been called that lol.

    These kind of verses make me question why anyone believes in God. People of other faiths should learn about Islam or (xyz). However, Muslims shouldn't questions their faith or look into other religions or...(same old same old)
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    Do you think your family are going to disown you? Were you raised really religious or allowed to have your own views on stuff?

    Were you scared of telling your friends?

    Do you think you'll probably look at other religions or stick to atheism/agnosticism?

    Sorry for the excessive questions. Just interested!
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    (Original post by ExMooseLDN)
    The Quran states that the mountains were pegs and stabilised the earth, and from my knowledge of geology, that is completely wrong.
    Mountains do have "roots", but not like a plant's roots.

    Mountains, like the rest of the continental crust, are made of low-density granite that "floats" in the Earth's mantle. Like an ice cube, all mountains must have a compensating "root" to isostatically balance them. The higher a mountain, the deeper its roots.

    Scientists confirm that mountains have below them roots that extend deep into the earth's surface and stabilise the earth's crust. The history of science tells us that the theory of mountains, having deep roots and being stabilisers for the earth, has just begun to be understood in the framework of plate tectonics since the late 1960’s. These roots can reach several times their elevations above the surface of the ground. So the most suitable word to describe mountains on the basis of this information is the word "peg", like the Qur'an describes it.

    Mountains also play an important role in stabilising the crust of the earth. They hinder the shaking of the earth. Likewise, the modern theory of plate tectonics holds that mountains work as stabilisers for the earth.

    Source: http://www.salaam.co.uk/themeofthemo..._index.php?l=1

    And here's another link you could read:
    MOUNTAINS AS PEGS/STAKES? DO MOUNTAINS HAVE ROOTS THAT RESEMBLE PEGS/STAKES?
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    My advice..Take it or leave it!

    The only one who can help you is Allah SWT, it's your mind that has brought you to this state, trying to rationalise everything based on fallible science .. Sincerely pray to Allah, like you have never prayed before, put your face on the floor and beg Allah to help you and guide you. May Allah help you see the truth and save you from eternal suffering ameen.
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    (Original post by paniking_and_not_revising)
    Do you think your family are going to disown you? Were you raised really religious or allowed to have your own views on stuff?

    Were you scared of telling your friends?

    Do you think you'll probably look at other religions or stick to atheism/agnosticism?

    Sorry for the excessive questions. Just interested!
    No they wouldn't disown me but the relationship would be affected, so for now, why ruin something that works well. Plus I wouldn't want to make my mum unhappy unless it's necessary.

    I was raised in a typically muslim way, e.g made to pray, go to arabic school, learn quran etc, but my parents have always taught me to think for myself, so my parents know I believe in evolution and support LGBT rights etc.

    I did consider christianity when I first left, but then I realised that they weren't for me, so unless someone persuades me with enough evidence in a rational way, I'll probably stay as an atheist.
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    ExMooseLDN
    Mjcal1

    If you guys are planning on sticking around on TSR, you may want to consider joining the TSR Ex-Muslim Society. There's an associated thread for discussion about ex-Muslim issues, jokes, and general chat about Islam, too.

    Spoiler:
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    Proselytisation over. :rofl:
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    (Original post by FluffyCherry)
    Mountains do have "roots", but not like a plant's roots.

    Mountains, like the rest of the continental crust, are made of low-density granite that "floats" in the Earth's mantle. Like an ice cube, all mountains must have a compensating "root" to isostatically balance them. The higher a mountain, the deeper its roots.

    Scientists confirm that mountains have below them roots that extend deep into the earth's surface and stabilise the earth's crust. The history of science tells us that the theory of mountains, having deep roots and being stabilisers for the earth, has just begun to be understood in the framework of plate tectonics since the late 1960’s. These roots can reach several times their elevations above the surface of the ground. So the most suitable word to describe mountains on the basis of this information is the word "peg", like the Qur'an describes it.

    Mountains also play an important role in stabilising the crust of the earth. They hinder the shaking of the earth. Likewise, the modern theory of plate tectonics holds that mountains work as stabilisers for the earth.

    Source: http://www.salaam.co.uk/themeofthemo..._index.php?l=1

    And here's another link you could read:
    MOUNTAINS AS PEGS/STAKES? DO MOUNTAINS HAVE ROOTS THAT RESEMBLE PEGS/STAKES?
    Spoiler:
    Show
    My advice..Take it or leave it!

    The only one who can help you is Allah SWT, it's your mind that has brought you to this state, trying to rationalise everything based on fallible science .. Sincerely pray to Allah, like you have never prayed before, put your face on the floor and beg Allah to help you and guide you. May Allah help you see the truth and save you from eternal suffering ameen.
    Sorry but your sources are both biased towards Islam and do not come from a purely scientific background.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    ExMooseLDN
    Mjcal1

    If you guys are planning on sticking around on TSR, you may want to consider joining the TSR Ex-Muslim Society. There's an associated thread for discussion about ex-Muslim issues, jokes, and general chat about Islam, too.
    Spoiler:
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    Proselytisation over. :rofl:
    Yeah I just joined it today
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    (Original post by ExMooseLDN)
    No they wouldn't disown me but the relationship would be affected, so for now, why ruin something that works well. Plus I wouldn't want to make my mum unhappy unless it's necessary.

    I was raised in a typically muslim way, e.g made to pray, go to arabic school, learn quran etc, but my parents have always taught me to think for myself, so my parents know I believe in evolution and support LGBT rights etc.

    I did consider christianity when I first left, but then I realised that they weren't for me, so unless someone persuades me with enough evidence in a rational way, I'll probably stay as an atheist.
    Only true fastest growing Truth
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster
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    (Original post by ExMooseLDN)
    I'm only gonna answer the questions I haven't answered before.

    Left in the sense that I no longer believe in it.

    I prefer to think for myself. You just assume I do not understand the Quran, but at the end of the day, I have done my research, as well as read the Quran for myself, and its tafsir whenever i've had doubts. Like for example, one of the doubts I had was about surat al kahf when the sun is said to be 'setting in a muddy spring' according to dhul qarnayn. In the tafsir, I found that this was referring to the ocean. Whilst I do not 100% agree with this interpretation, I still accepted it as a possible explanation. I do however challenge you to find an acceptable explanation for the mountains as pegs, as I have not found one yet.

    I do pretend to be muslim, but that is for my personal peace of mind.

    And finally, go search the definition of indoctrinated, I think it applies more to you than me. At least I'm thinking for myself. Rational thinking beats blind faith anyday.
    I do not need to research anything because my faith in Islam and Allah is strong so I believe whatever is written in the Quran, as an 'ex-Muslim' this won't be the case for you.

    If you don't mind me asking, how old are you? Why haven't you told your parents yet? I understand from previous posts you are waiting to be independent but why haven't you told them yet?

    Hahaha okay then. Yeah, I think not.

    You didn't answer, so you agree... you are very easily persuaded? And yes, it does apply to you in this situation. If you need it spelt out further it's word choice.
 
 
 
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