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    (Original post by NDGAARONDI)
    Yet we are in the 21st century! How we speak of advances in medicine and we can't even perfect the pill and contraception which are both 'ancient'.
    However perfect contreception is there are always going to be people who don't use it correctly. I mean condoms have something like a 98% effectiveness if loose correctly. This drops significantly if people don't squeaze the top of it which some people don't know to do. So for some people it may not be carelessness but more not understanding how to use contrception.

    Why? Just because it has been expelled from the body? So if someone saw their ex girlfriend who cheated on him (and had sex with the other guy) and was due to give birth the next day came along and stabbed her foetus this would be different than if he waiting for her to give birth, then killing it?
    Legally there is a difference between a baby which has been born and an unborn foetus right or wronge it is the way the law goes. In terms of your point this is not a response to the original point. There is also a difference between a feotus of 1 month as cited in the original point and and 9 month old foetus. There is a difference between killing a one month foetus and a new born baby not only because one is inside the body and one outside but also because one is full formed and one isn't.
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    (Original post by randdom)
    However perfect contreception is there are always going to be people who don't use it correctly. I mean condoms have something like a 98% effectiveness if loose correctly. This drops significantly if people don't squeaze the top of it which some people don't know to do. So for some people it may not be carelessness but more not understanding how to use contrception.

    Legally there is a difference between a baby which has been born and an unborn foetus right or wronge it is the way the law goes. In terms of your point this is not a response to the original point. There is also a difference between a feotus of 1 month as cited in the original point and and 9 month old foetus. There is a difference between killing a one month foetus and a new born baby not only because one is inside the body and one outside but also because one is full formed and one isn't.
    I realise the legal standing on it. I was just trying to show a view point, not one I necessarily have

    I also agree with incompetant contraceptive users. Again it seems that the way to counter it is via education.

    When does a foetus become fully formed? j/w
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    (Original post by NDGAARONDI)
    When does a foetus become fully formed? j/w
    From my understanding normally at around 4 and a half months
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    I think what I was trying to say ages ago, in a cackhanded way, was that because a baby ends up at the end of gestation, it was from the moment of conception destined and meant to be that baby. It doesn't matter whether it is 4 cells or millions, it is going to be that baby. And to kill it at any stage is to prevent that baby from having a life it was going to have before it was killed.

    God, I am making a hash of this, but I know what I mean! My thoughts about abortion are coloured by the fact that I conceived my daughter in extremely unfavourable circumstances, (That makes it sound like really bad sex! But I mean economic, career, location, dog-end of a relationship blah blah.)

    I considered abortion, in fact I believe I was brainwashed from my early teens to believe abortion is the only route in such a situation, and I was implementing the received contingency plan for such an event. I called the clinic, I booked a consultation. I did my research quite calmly, as though it had already been decided for me by Logic. I thought, 'bunch of cells', 'father drank and smoked loads', 'not the right time', etc.

    I can report that what happens in your mind in this stage is denial of facts: you deny the baby an existence in your imagination. It is a problem to be overcome. So I know all about how easy it is to justify, and I can see what state of mind women are in when they go for abortions. There you are, about to grow a human inside you, and you don't want to!

    And yet....my daughter is now nearly 5 months, I thank a God I don't even believe in every day that I had her, with tears of joy in my eyes. Yes, it has been hard hard hard, what's wrong with hard? Better than dead.
 
 
 
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