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Is it time to negotiate with ISIS watch

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    Despite almost 2 years of bombing, ISIS are proving an incredibly resilient capable and motivated force and show no signs of going away any time soon. I believe that we won't be able to defeat them via military means and the only way we can deal with them is via talking to them and addressing some of their demands. We have to remember they're fighting Assad and putin who are not only far more barbaric but also a far great threat to the region. If we focused on the common enemy we have in Assad and iran and let them have their own law in their own lands in return for them not attacking us I think that we would save a lot of bloodshed and before any of you say its impossible it worked with the provos.
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    It depends what negotiating amounts to. The fundamental flaw with ISIS negotiation is that their primary goal is anathema to Western civilisation as a whole. However, it's clear that other simplistic policies also aren't in themselves sufficient. We can't "bomb ISIS" for obvious reasons. One can defeat a person, but an ideology is immanent.
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    (Original post by intelligent con)
    Despite almost 2 years of bombing, ISIS are proving an incredibly resilient capable and motivated force and show no signs of going away any time soon. I believe that we won't be able to defeat them via military means and the only way we can deal with them is via talking to them and addressing some of their demands. We have to remember they're fighting Assad and putin who are not only far more barbaric but also a far great threat to the region. If we focused on the common enemy we have in Assad and iran and let them have their own law in their own lands in return for them not attacking us I think that we would save a lot of bloodshed and before any of you say its impossible it worked with the provos.
    1) Firstly, your proposing that our negotiations grant them territory in which they can generate income, buy weapons and raise an army.

    2) You actually trust these people to keep their word?

    ISIS are enemies of the west and only exist because the electorate in the west is too stupid to know what is best for it and too weak willed to put up with the kind of resolve it would take to bring order to chaos.

    But no, there should be no negotiation.
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    I've thought for a long time that negotiating with ISIS is impossible. It'd be like trying to negotiate with rabid dogs.
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    Is it time to negotiate with Isis?

    Err no


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    Given that ISIS wants to dominate the entire Middle East, and after that the world, I am going to say no to attempting negotiation.
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    Nö, prïmeruhlee fuh thuh reesuhn that yoo just canot nuhgösheeeyt with them, orl they wunt iz tuh spred thê narstee ïdeeoluhjee and they wil doo evrithing tuh that end. Thê monstuhz hoo canot bee torkd too or reezuhnd with.
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    ISIS has been losing territory due to offensives backed by US (and to a lesser extent, Russian) air support, and they haven't had any major victories in nearly a year. And they have launched major offensives, so their lack of victories isn't due to lack of trying.

    ISIS' last major victory would probably be Ramadi and Palmyra in May 2015. They've captured some small towns and villages since then, but have not made any significant gains. In that same time they've lost much of the Turkish border to the YPG, have been almost pushed out of Hassakeh province by the YPG, and have lost ground to the Syrian government east of Aleppo. In Iraq they've actually lost Ramadi, and have been pushed out of Baiji by the Iraqi government and Sinjar by the Iraqi Kurds.

    ISIS' ideology is incompatible with negotiation by its very nature. They are not interested in negotiation, and we don't need to negotiate with them.
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    (Original post by JeffyBoyAnjou)
    Nö, prïmeruhlee fuh thuh reesuhn that yoo just canot nuhgösheeeyt with them, orl they wunt iz tuh spred thê narstee ïdeeoluhjee and they wil doo evrithing tuh that end. Thê monstuhz hoo canot bee torkd too or reezuhnd with.
    Mr Freedman?
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    If we really wanted to, we could just glass Raqqa and that would probably stop the terrorism, the issue is not that there has been bombing, it's a lack of decisive action. Either blow the living **** out of anyone with so much as a blag bin-liner in their kitchen, or leave them alone. Don't bomb them just enough to piss them off and then pull back before you've finished the job.
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    (Original post by intelligent con)
    Despite almost 2 years of bombing, ISIS are proving an incredibly resilient capable.
    You want to negotiate now? When we're starting to make some real progress against ISIS? The Kurds are only about 60km from Raqqa, the Syrian Arab Army is on the verge of retaking Palmyra.

    It was in the news the other day that ISIS forces pulled out of the Iraqi city of Heet without a fight. It makes absolutely on sense to start negotiating with ISIS now, and as others have pointed out, you could never trust them to keep their word.

    To licence a state which had committed genocide as the Islamic State has, which has opened the first public slave markets seen in the region for a hundred years, which has driven some of the most ancient races like the Assyrians, Chaldeans and Yezidis (who predate Islam and even Christianity) out of the northern Mesopotamia region, is unacceptable.
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    I'd rather negotiate with Putin and Assad.
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    (Original post by RF_PineMarten)
    ISIS has been losing territory due to offensives backed by US (and to a lesser extent, Russian) air support, and they haven't had any major victories in nearly a year. And they have launched major offensives, so their lack of victories isn't due to lack of trying.

    ISIS' last major victory would probably be Ramadi and Palmyra in May 2015. They've captured some small towns and villages since then, but have not made any significant gains. In that same time they've lost much of the Turkish border to the YPG, have been almost pushed out of Hassakeh province by the YPG, and have lost ground to the Syrian government east of Aleppo. In Iraq they've actually lost Ramadi, and have been pushed out of Baiji by the Iraqi government and Sinjar by the Iraqi Kurds.

    ISIS' ideology is incompatible with negotiation by its very nature. They are not interested in negotiation, and we don't need to negotiate with them.
    This. We're accomplishing major victories against ISIS (without having put any appreciable number of ground troops in, it shows the West is learning how to fight wars in the Middle East), as you point out they're being pushed out of Hassakah and even in the last couple of weeks, the Kurds have moved quite far south parallel to the Iraqi border. The SAA is on the verge of retaking Palmyra.

    We're seeing ever more ISIS members defecting, which says a lot; if they're caught trying to escape by ISIS, they will suffer a terrible death, and in trying to surrender they risk being shot by jumpy Kurdish/Iraqi forces. But even then they still perceive that is still the safer option than continuing to fight for ISIS.

    To negotiate with them now is a suggestion that's not to be taken seriously. And we know from the Afghanistan example in the 1990s what results when you allow a vicious terrorist group to acquire a large sanctuary from which they can plan attacks (9/11 was the outcome).
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    ISIS won't negotiate.
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    (Original post by intelligent con)
    Despite almost 2 years of bombing, ISIS are proving an incredibly resilient capable and motivated force and show no signs of going away any time soon. I believe that we won't be able to defeat them via military means and the only way we can deal with them is via talking to them and addressing some of their demands. We have to remember they're fighting Assad and putin who are not only far more barbaric but also a far great threat to the region. If we focused on the common enemy we have in Assad and iran and let them have their own law in their own lands in return for them not attacking us I think that we would save a lot of bloodshed and before any of you say its impossible it worked with the provos.
    I don't agree that Assad or Iran is our enemy. Nor Putin for that matter. I see them as allies (of convenience) in a war against ISIS in which we should be more actively involved. ISIS' declared purpose isn't control over their own lands as you'd like think; it's a global caliphate.

    And don't even bother trying to compare ISIS with the Ra.
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    (Original post by Brutum Fulmen)
    ISIS won't negotiate.
    And neither should we.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    I don't agree that Assad or Iran is our enemy. Nor Putin for that matter. I see them as allies (of convenience) in a war against ISIS in which we should be more actively involved. ISIS' declared purpose isn't control over their own lands as you'd like think; it's a global caliphate.

    And don't even bother trying to compare ISIS with the Ra.
    It's true that we have a convergence of interests with Iran (not necessarily Assad who is in many ways responsible for the rise of ISIS, more on that later). But it is a mistake to, as so many on the left do these days, fall into the trap of believing that somehow the Iranian government are these wonderful people who are really quite civilised compared to ISIS.

    Do they let women drive? Sure. But Iran carries out more executions each year than Saudi Arabia. Homosexual acts are still punishable by death in Iran, and stoning is still on the Iranian statute books as the penalty for adultery. Iran has assiduously cultivated Shi'a sectarianism, and has been the controlling force behind political parties in Iraq that ran some of the worst death squads (an example would be one of these death squads went to a brothel in Baghdad a couple of years back and killed everyone in there, about 20 women in total; that is the kind of religious fanaticism that the Iranian government promotes). Iran has been an extremely regressive influence on Iraqi politics and society.

    Unfortunately the left, because of their tendency to see things in simplistic terms and to perceive the Iranian government as anti-imperialist, then engage in rationalisations and equivocation and convince themselves that somehow the Khomeinist ideology really isn't that bad. The Iranian government is a major regressive force and a promoter of sectarianism in the Middle East, and "but whatabout Saudi" doesn't change that fact
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    (Original post by Dinasaurus)
    I'd rather negotiate with Putin and Assad.
    This.

    Putin can be negotiated with, he's not a completely insane barbarian like ISIS' followers and leaders are. In fact, Putin has done quite a lot of great things for Russia. He's managed to halve murder rates and significantly reduced the number of terrorist attacks that take place, among many other things. He may not hold the same views about LGBT+ and things like that as we do, but neither does he hold anti-western views.
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    Mr Freedman?
    Soree?
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    (Original post by JeffyBoyAnjou)
    Soree?
    There is someone who writes like you in a facebook group (Open Oxford) with the surname Freedman.
 
 
 
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