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Is it time to stop student finance being based on parental income Watch

  • View Poll Results: Should maintenance loans be based on parental income?
    Yes
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    No
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    But currently, the government is not recovering all the money it lends out to students. Why not increase the rate at which high earning graduates repay the loan? It could be 4% instead of 3%. Or it could be inflation 5% over £70k (for example).

    Even if "that's how it works already", I'm saying we should do it even more than we already do; so that in total, the government gets back all the money it lends out.

    That way, all subsidising of the poor by the rich can happen after the students graduate and get jobs, without unecessarily bringing parental income into it.
    That's quite probably a fair point


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    (Original post by Dez)
    There simply isn't enough money to give every student the same level of support granted to students from low income families, so the end result of this would be preventing the poorest from attending uni, rather than the middle class students. Exactly how would that be an improvement?
    But there's money for Trident and tax breaks for Tory voting millionaires? Sure
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    (Original post by jneill)
    That's quite probably a fair point


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    Thanks, glad you think so
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    (Original post by DougallnDougall)
    You're advocating that someone who has worked hard at uni and in work should be liable to pay back more for those who possibly haven't? That doesn't seem very fair, not fair at all.
    I see your point, and I agree it's not perfect. But I see it as no less fair than the way in which rich people pay a higher rate of tax than poor people. The government needs to recover a certain amount of money, but it has to do it without financially crippling poor people. So a higher burden on the rich is necessary.

    In fact I see it as considerably more fair than this "subsidising of the poor" happening before they attend university (as it currently does), with the children of poor parents getting much more financial assistance than the children of rich parents. Because at that stage, the students have no careers of their own and are all equally poor, roughly. The same thing happens, but instead of being based on the students' own income, it's based on parental income which is much less relevant.

    That leaves the door open for suggestions that unless a degree programme is linked to a specific career then there should be no funding since students in these programmes are indulging themselves or being irresponsible by not undertaking career specific courses.
    Personally I think the door is already open to those sorts of suggestions; that degrees should only be studied by those expecting it to lead to graduate prospects that are worth the cost of the degree.
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    Seeing the form and how it factors in my parents income from the LAST year and it DOES factor in my siblings, shows how disgusting the hate towards the middle class is. So after working out how I'd have less disposable income than a family earning less and how my family has only been earning as much as they have recently, people didn't care and still thought it was just me being spoilt.

    Thankfully the government doesn't see eye to eye with this hateful rhetoric and will factor these in, amazing how a bureaucratic right wing government policy is more tolerant and helpful than other students.
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    (Original post by Dinasaurus)
    What do you mean 'apply as with deductions'? Do I need to fill in a separate form for them to factor my siblings?
    I mean apply. Because when the full assessment is done there is a chance you will be awarded something.

    Pension contributions and siblings are deducted from your household income.
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    (Original post by Dinasaurus)
    What do you mean 'apply as with deductions'? Do I need to fill in a separate form for them to factor my siblings?
    Nope that's factored in already on the section of the online form your parents fill out. I think they peg a £xk figure per dependent child and then subtract it from the pre-tax income.

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    (Original post by PQ)
    I mean apply. Because when the full assessment is done there is a chance you will be awarded something.

    Pension contributions and siblings are deducted from your household income.
    Why is it on multiple threads everyone just told me, my parents are rich they should have saved up for my sibling etc etc without factoring this in, belligerent to it.

    Also I was never informed that it was for the tax year 2014-15, not 15-16, which means my household income is actually a lot less than I factored. It seems people just wanted to hate on me for not being in the lowest income bracket.
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    (Original post by Dinasaurus)
    Why is it on multiple threads everyone just told me, my parents are rich they should have saved up for my sibling etc etc without factoring this in, belligerent to it.

    Also I was never informed that it was for the tax year 2014-15, not 15-16, which means my household income is actually a lot less than I factored. It seems people just wanted to hate on me for not being in the lowest income bracket.
    Because you're attacking the current system without having an understanding of how it works.

    None of this information is a secret- it's all explained on the student finance guides available online. It isn't the system at fault that you haven't done any research.
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    (Original post by Dinasaurus)
    Seeing the form and how it factors in my parents income from the LAST year and it DOES factor in my siblings, shows how disgusting the hate towards the middle class is. So after working out how I'd have less disposable income than a family earning less and how my family has only been earning as much as they have recently, people didn't care and still thought it was just me being spoilt.

    Thankfully the government doesn't see eye to eye with this hateful rhetoric and will factor these in, amazing how a bureaucratic right wing government policy is more tolerant and helpful than other students.
    If the government is factoring these things in then that is great, has been needed for a while. I would not have spent certain nights during my undergrad crying over finances if the SLC had taken into account that I had 3 other siblings at uni at the time. A family earning £25k a year and supporting one child would have more disposable income, but they did not seem to care about that.
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    Surely it should be for wealthier parents to help their kids.

    We should stop making people dependent on the State, and put the family at the heart of society, its a key part of conservatism.
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    If the government is factoring these things in then that is great, has been needed for a while. I would not have spent certain nights during my undergrad crying over finances if the SLC had taken into account that I had 3 other siblings at uni at the time. A family earning £25k a year and supporting one child would have more disposable income, but they did not seem to care about that.
    Factoring in siblings at university has been part of the income assessment for over 20 years. It isn't new (although the amount factored in is different for new students in 2016 - for many families the change will reduce their entitlement while for others they will get more).
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    (Original post by PQ)
    Factoring in siblings at university has been part of the income assessment for over 20 years. It isn't new (although the amount factored in is different for new students in 2016 - for many families the change will reduce their entitlement while for others they will get more).
    My experience was that I got the minimum maintenance loan available and no grant, it did not feel like they factored in my circumstances at all. This was in 2013 though.
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    My experience was that I got the minimum maintenance loan available and no grant, it did not feel like they factored in my circumstances at all. This was in 2013 though.
    Did your parents complete the income assessment? If they assumed that you wouldn't receive anything and didn't complete the assessment then you would get the minimums. Unfortunately many parents won't bother - or complete the assessment for the first year that a single sibling is at university, get no award and assume that the same would be true even when their circumstances change and more than one child leaves for university.

    Similarly if they completed the assessments but their household income was well in excess of the upper bracket for extra support. The allowance for siblings isn't substantial. Many high earners will have more deducted for pension contributions than for dependents.
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    (Original post by PQ)
    Did your parents complete the income assessment? If they assumed that you wouldn't receive anything and didn't complete the assessment then you would get the minimums. Unfortunately many parents won't bother - or complete the assessment for the first year that a single sibling is at university, get no award and assume that the same would be true even when their circumstances change and more than one child leaves for university.

    Similarly if they completed the assessments but their household income was well in excess of the upper bracket for extra support. The allowance for siblings isn't substantial. Many high earners will have more deducted for pension contributions than for dependents.
    I don't remember the entire situation too well but one thing I can remember is that I would pester them every year to fill in the forms and give me all of the scanned evidence I needed. Our household income is very good for a family with only a few kids but there are a lot of us (thankfully half have graduated now). I'm not completely sure why I was given so little.
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    I don't remember the entire situation too well but one thing I can remember is that I would pester them every year to fill in the forms and give me all of the scanned evidence I needed. Our household income is very good for a family with only a few kids but there are a lot of us (thankfully half have graduated now). I'm not completely sure why I was given so little.
    The deduction for siblings (either under 18 or in university) is only £1,130. If your household income is above £85k then unless your parents are paying very large pension contributions (well above 10% of their gross salary) then even with multiple siblings you aren't going to fall below the upper threshold.
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    (Original post by PQ)
    Because you're attacking the current system without having an understanding of how it works.

    None of this information is a secret- it's all explained on the student finance guides available online. It isn't the system at fault that you haven't done any research.
    Nobody else provided any defense of it, most people just said "Oh my parents earn more than theres, its our fault for having multiple siblings" and "Stop whining, you don't need anymore, your parents can afford to pay up."

    Not once did I see anyone standing up to these so called low income people agreeing with it, who also said siblings shouldn't be factored in
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    (Original post by Tiger Rag)
    Where would the extra money come from?
    I'm pretty sure trident would cover it!
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    (Original post by HonorKeen)
    I'm pretty sure trident would cover it!
    You mean the thing we won't cancel


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    Lower Maintenance Loan amounts for everyone, Yes, I agree.

    However, I do think that Household Contribution, that comes into play with the 16/17 applications is a good idea. If your parents are earning £100,000+, why shouldn't they or even their employers (as in some countries) not be expected to provide a small contribution.

    Why should extremely high income households rely on state support to educate their offspring? Now, obviously, if the student was estranged from their parents or their parents had a valid reason for not being able to provide support, then this is a different matter.


 
 
 
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