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Is it time to stop student finance being based on parental income Watch

  • View Poll Results: Should maintenance loans be based on parental income?
    Yes
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    No
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    49.75%

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    My proposition:

    1. Factor in how much it costs to support a child per year, then subtract that from post tax income for each child.

    2. Factor in monthly (primary residence) mortgage or rent costs, again, post tax

    3. Factor in cost of living adjustments to normalise incomes across cities/locales.

    The above three would address the biggest issues behind how student finance is administered.

    For example a family on: £80k, with a £3k/month mortgage, supporting 4 children and living in London would then be able to fork out less than a family on £60-70k, with 2 children, living in Yorkshire.

    This excludes credit card debt/personal debts because those are a form of reckless spending on the parent's part.

    Not basing it on income would be a pointless exercise that would lead to economic waste.

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    (Original post by Dinasaurus)
    It's not just about laziness, I wouldn't even factor laziness in. Probably just less willing.

    Just because they earn more money doesn't mean they have more money, using the example of someone I know, single parent earns 28,000, after tax and NI, they take home 1844 a month, say they spend 100 a month on utility bills I have no clue if this value is accurate, and 30 on internet. Then subtract council tax, once again I have no idea what this is but lets say you subtract 120.5, this person still has 1593 left. Even if they have other bills, they can still probably have some money left over to give to their child at uni.

    Now in a household like mine, say there's 2616 take home pay, subtract the same amount for internet, utility and council tax, which is 2635 . Then you subtract rent which is like another 800 which is 1565.5. Then because I am not at home anymore, they need to find a nursery to put my sister in, searching for a nursery in my area, I can't say how normal these prices are but this would be 414 a month. Meaning 1151.50 left over.

    Obviously I've not even factored in things like food and transport, but in this scenario, my friend will get more loan and more help from their parents.

    I also have a friend who is putting down their father's household to get more loan but they live down the road from their mother and stepfather, his stepfather has a very high up position in a company and makes a healthy, six figure salary. This friend already has 6000 to spend for uni and they'll get help from their mother's household, but he will also get more loan than me.

    I don't think people who are on the lowest salaries should be affected but I find this unfair.

    In my example, my parents will have to spend 147.50 a month to match the amount of loan the first example got, despite already having less disposable income.
    Being less willing is laziness.

    So the single-parent pays no rent? Not very realistic. Let's correct those figures: the single-parent's left with 793, and your household's left with 1152. Clearly, the single parent is more deserving of the loan.

    Obviously, the friend you're talking about is part of a tiny minority that abuse the system. Doesn't mean the rest of us should suffer.
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    (Original post by StrangeBanana)
    Being less willing is laziness.

    So the single-parent pays no rent? Not very realistic. Let's correct those figures: the single-parent's left with 793, and your household's left with 1152. Clearly, the single parent is more deserving of the loan.

    Obviously, the friend you're talking about is part of a tiny minority that abuse the system. Doesn't mean the rest of us should suffer.
    I am the only person out of my friends who pays rent, either they are lying but or their parents don't own a house. The friend in that scenario lives in a far nicer house than mine, most of my friends have parents who are 10 to 20 years older than mine, so they don't pay rent because they own houses.

    You wouldn't suffer if you got 150 less a month, if I am expected to live on that amount, with accommodation paid, food every week, I won't die. So why would those people need an extra 150 a month?

    This is even if you don't include any parental contribution.
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    (Original post by Dinasaurus)
    It's not just about laziness, I wouldn't even factor laziness in. Probably just less willing.

    Just because they earn more money doesn't mean they have more money, using the example of someone I know, single parent earns 28,000, after tax and NI, they take home 1844 a month, say they spend 100 a month on utility bills I have no clue if this value is accurate, and 30 on internet. Then subtract council tax, once again I have no idea what this is but lets say you subtract 120.5, this person still has 1593 left. Even if they have other bills, they can still probably have some money left over to give to their child at uni.
    what makes you think that those on a lower income don't have to pay rent?

    Now in a household like mine, say there's 2616 take home pay, subtract the same amount for internet, utility and council tax, which is 2635 . Then you subtract rent which is like another 800 which is 1565.5. Then because I am not at home anymore, they need to find a nursery to put my sister in, searching for a nursery in my area, I can't say how normal these prices are but this would be 414 a month. Meaning 1151.50 left over.

    Obviously I've not even factored in things like food and transport, but in this scenario, my friend will get more loan and more help from their parents.

    I also have a friend who is putting down their father's household to get more loan but they live down the road from their mother and stepfather, his stepfather has a very high up position in a company and makes a healthy, six figure salary. This friend already has 6000 to spend for uni and they'll get help from their mother's household, but he will also get more loan than me.

    I don't think people who are on the lowest salaries should be affected but I find this unfair.

    In my example, my parents will have to spend 147.50 a month to match the amount of loan the first example got, despite already having less disposable income.
    What your friend is doing is not allowed and is a rare case. Most people receiving the maximum do actually need it.
    Your parents must have known that you won't be available to babysit for them forever.
    Haven't you already said in a previous thread that you will manage at uni? So why do you keep reverting back to this?
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    what makes you think that those on a lower income don't have to pay rent?



    What your friend is doing is not allowed and is a rare case. Most people receiving the maximum do actually need it.
    Your parents must have known that you won't be available to babysit for them forever.
    I'm using real examples of people I know, most of my friends parents own homes. House prices were much lower 10 or 20 years ago than they are now. When I saw low income I don't mean people on the maximum loan, I mean people who earn like 28000.

    Most people at my sixth form had parents who earned around this range, I am not speaking of people earning like 15.000.
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    The question in the title opposes the question on the poll, so we can't really tell which way people are voting :dontknow:
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    (Original post by Supersaps)
    And the ugly nature of TSR reveals itself, as it votes overwhelming for poor people to pay for kids from rich families to go through uni.
    Just because someone's parents are rich doesn't mean they're rich themselves.

    Most students from rich families are personally just as poor as any other. An adult student does not have any automatic entitlement to their parents' money.
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    (Original post by Dinasaurus)
    I am the only person out of my friends who pays rent, either they are lying but or their parents don't own a house. The friend in that scenario lives in a far nicer house than mine, most of my friends have parents who are 10 to 20 years older than mine, so they don't pay rent because they own houses.

    You wouldn't suffer if you got 150 less a month, if I am expected to live on that amount, with accommodation paid, food every week, I won't die. So why would those people need an extra 150 a month?

    This is even if you don't include any parental contribution.
    Most of your friends are anomalies.
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    (Original post by StrangeBanana)
    Most of your friends are anomalies.
    Some of my friends even receive extra bursaries of a 1000 from the uni for being low income, the one in the first example bought a new iPhone, broke it and got a new one the same week.

    My friends say they really need this extra money yet go out and party 3 times a week in uni, go shopping to other towns to buy fancy clothes etc.

    I just wish there were more factors involved in determining the loan, such as savings and other children.
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    (Original post by Princepieman)
    My proposition:

    1. Factor in how much it costs to support a child per year, then subtract that from post tax income for each child.

    2. Factor in monthly (primary residence) mortgage or rent costs, again, post tax

    3. Factor in cost of living adjustments to normalise incomes across cities/locales.

    The above three would address the biggest issues behind how student finance is administered.

    For example a family on: £80k, with a £3k/month mortgage, supporting 4 children and living in London would then be able to fork out less than a family on £60-70k, with 2 children, living in Yorkshire.

    This excludes credit card debt/personal debts because those are a form of reckless spending on the parent's part.

    Not basing it on income would be a pointless exercise that would lead to economic waste.

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    This would be great.
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Exactly. It's ridiculous that people are actually arguing that everyone should receive the same amount when their parents are earning like 70k...
    My parents earn about £50k, they have 3 kids, and they're in £20k debt. I know people whose parents make less but have less kids and have tons of money to throw around.

    But I'm not deserving of extra support because my parents happen to make more, despite the fact that they don't have any money to give me??????
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    (Original post by Dinasaurus)
    I'm using real examples of people I know, most of my friends parents own homes. House prices were much lower 10 or 20 years ago than they are now. When I saw low income I don't mean people on the maximum loan, I mean people who earn like 28000.

    Most people at my sixth form had parents who earned around this range, I am not speaking of people earning like 15.000.
    The cases you refer to are extremely rare. My mum earns a little below 28k and she pays rent. This is typically the situation of those receiving the maximum.
    Didn't you say in a previous thread that you will manage at uni? So why do you keep reverting back to this? You have lots of time to save money before you go to uni..
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    (Original post by Dez)
    There simply isn't enough money to give every student the same level of support granted to students from low income families, so the end result of this would be preventing the poorest from attending uni, rather than the middle class students. Exactly how would that be an improvement?
    Just because a student is from a middle class family doesn't mean he's rich. It means his parents are probably rich. Personally, he's just as poor as any other student. And because he's an adult, he has no automatic entitlement to his parents money. Suppose my parents are rich, but once I turn 18, don't want to be spending money on me anymore? Suppose my parents are only willing to pay for my education if I study the university degree of their choice? (Quite a common scenario in fact). Suppose my parents have high salaries, but can't afford to pay for my university because they have other uses they need to put their money towards (e.g. if they're in a lot of debt)?

    This system just forces middle class children to rely on the generosity/ability of their parents to get them through university, which might be fine in many cases, but it isn't always. So I think all students should be treated equally in this regard.

    There is the problem that there isn't enough money to just hand out to all students to pay their way through university. But I think that's the whole point of it being a loan; the government is going to get it back eventually. Although this isn't always the case (e.g. some people may not earn enough to pay all of it back), I think the government just needs to set the interest rate, salary thresholds for repayment etc. such that they are unlikely to make a large overall loss on these loans.

    Plus, if you make the repayments depend on the student's own personal salary after he graduates (rather than that of his parents), you still get the same effect, that people with less money get more financial help - but you get it when it matters.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    My parents earn about £50k, they have 3 kids, and they're in £20k debt. I know people whose parents make less but have less kids and have tons of money to throw around.

    But I'm not deserving of extra support because my parents happen to make more, despite the fact that they don't have any money to give me??????
    Why are they in 20k debt?
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Why are they in 20k debt?
    I don't know.
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    The cases you refer to are extremely rare. My mum earns a little below 28k and she pays rent. This is typically the situation of those receiving the maximum.
    Didn't you say in a previous thread that you will manage at uni? So why do you keep reverting back to this? You have lots of time to save money before you go to uni..
    I will manage of course, but I am just saying that my friends would also manage on the same loan as me. If I could survive as in 'not die' on my rent, then they should to. It just annoys me that I have to save up and work to live comparably to them. Obviously the average might be different but I compare myself to people I know and see. Just seems annoying that they can go out and have all the fun without having to work as wel.
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    well..whose to blame for that?
    Who's to blame for your parents not making enough to support you?
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    (Original post by Dinasaurus)
    I will manage of course, but I am just saying that my friends would also manage on the same loan as me. If I could survive as in 'not die' on my rent, then they should to. It just annoys me that I have to save up and work to live comparably to them. Obviously the average might be different but I compare myself to people I know and see. Just seems annoying that they can go out and have all the fun without having to work as wel.
    Fair point but your friends do not account for the majority, and you have one friend who is abusing the system.
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Fair point but your friends do not account for the majority, and you have one friend who is abusing the system.
    So if they updated the system to be more personal then instead of people getting money from abusing the system, more money could also go towards people like yourself? Surely that is good?
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    My mum does support me actually, she helps me out when she can, but clearly your parents don't make enough to support you, otherwise you wouldn't be crying about their debt.
    ............So what's your point?
 
 
 
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