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Women Protection Bill protested by religious leaders as 'un-Islamic' Watch

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    (Original post by wdkmwd)
    I made 10 posts in total on this thread, and 8 of them got reported.


    So much for "I can defend Islam"
    I suggest that you make a thread about it in the AtCT forum. Certain members have very recently been warned against this sort of mass-reporting behaviour, so I'm sure the CT would be interested to know who reported all those posts.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    I suggest that you make a thread about it in the AtCT forum. Certain members have very recently been warned against this sort of mass-reporting behaviour, so I'm sure the CT would be interested to know who reported all those posts.


    I already made a thread there out of anger, but i think the will only issue me another warning because of the vulgarity i used in it haha.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    I wouldn't be surprised if half the posts on this thread have been reported for being 'not constructive' or some other such guff.
    I can imagine the thought of the prophet going around reporting posts...

    (Inb4 this gets reported)

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    I would say the majority of my posts get me a warning along the lines of "be nice now!"
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    (Original post by wdkmwd)
    I made 10 posts in total on this thread, and 8 of them got reported.


    So much for "I can defend Islam"
    The continuous reporting is indicative of a wider Muslim attempt to close down any criticism of the religion and freedom of speech.

    It is a continuum, these guys are at 1, it goes up to 10 with Salman Rushdie and Charlie Hebdo.
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    Why has a thread about a bunch of religious nutcases protesting a progressive bill on women's rights become a ranting arena about moderate Muslims "not condemning terrorism unequivocally"? Do certain (not all) people here actually give a damn about the subject of thread or are they opportunists who just want to start the same rant over and over again? I can think of a number of threads where you can do this.

    Quite a few insincere people on this forum.

    The term "regressive left" is as much of an oxymoron as something ludicrous such as "progressive right".
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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    I think someone's confused between religion and culture
    Not at all, does Shari'ah even address domestic violence as it does disobedient wives? One could very easily deduce from the Quran that it enables wife beating. That's unless somebody was in such deep denial that they would come up with the most nonsensical interpretations available.
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    (Original post by wdkmwd)
    I got reported for making a joke about a law PERMITTED in Islam.

    It's not like what i said isn't true, i just made a joke about it.



    I wonder what would happen if I report a post of a muslim making fun of the trinity.
    I don't believe in restricting free speech like this at all but do you really think that domestic violence is funny?
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Inb4 "treated like queens".
    "Diamonds". Al mudari once said women are treated like diamonds in islam. How precious! !

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    (Original post by FlareBlitz96)
    i know some people here love to criticise aspects of Islam, but I feel that if u truly want to learn sincerely and not have bias clouding ur minds, then it's best to speak to a scholar 1 to 1. You could start off by telling them that ur a non Muslim but u wanted a few questions cleared up. I just feel that taking information from stuff like the media, it tends to get distorted in some way to support some idea. In a 1 to 1 discussion ,ur can make sure to ask about absolutely everything and try to point out if they've said some mistake
    This has nothing to do with the media (at least in my case), it's all about the Islamic scriptures. My experiences with "scholars" is that they are masters at sugarcoating, especially when speaking to doubting Muslims and curious non-Muslims. Some are probably in denial themselves and some want to keep the "Ummah" intact. But there are those who do not sugarcoat, like the IslamQA crew. They have all the tools they need to support the misogyny that they promote.
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    I don't believe in restricting free speech like this at all but do you really think that domestic violence is funny?


    Don't twist my words.


    Domestic violence obviously isn't funny. If it was Islam wouldn't come under so much scrutiny for being a violent religion.


    What i do find funny is how Muslim women would rather defend an ideology that permits their mutilation, than even to question the teachings in the religion.
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    (Original post by wdkmwd)
    Don't twist my words.


    Domestic violence obviously isn't funny. If it was Islam wouldn't come under so much scrutiny for being a violent religion.


    What i do find funny is how Muslim women would rather defend an ideology that permits their mutilation, than even to question the teachings in the religion.
    Depends on the motives of said "scrutinisers". If they can readily make jokes about punching a woman in the face then I would say their motives were insincere at best.
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    (Original post by HucktheForde)
    "Diamonds". Al mudari once said women are treated like diamonds in islam. How precious! !

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    And don't forget 'wrapped candies'. As opposed, of course, to all us women who don't wear a piece of cloth on our heads and are therefore dirty unwrapped candies who attract flies and can be thrown on the floor. Mashallah, this likening of women to inanimate objects is just so empowering and awesome!

    I read an article once about Muhammad Ali where he was telling his daughter(s?) all this crap about women being 'diamonds' and 'pearls' which are 'covered and protected' and 'hard to reach'. Absolutely sickening, though of course it gets repeated on some websites as though it's awesome and somehow respectful to women. Yuck yuck yuck.
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    The term "regressive left" is as much of an oxymoron as something ludicrous such as "progressive right".
    While I agree with much of what you've said here, I think that the term regressive left is a sensible one when we look at many of the cultural relativist positions of fellow liberals that go directly against core liberal values.

    http://www.unsafespeech.com/article/...regressiveleft

    If one holds faith in liberal values (equal rights for all races, genders and sexualities, freedom speech and freedom of choice, etc.) then one should not compromise those values simply because someone is of a different skin colour, ethnicity, nationality, or religion. This is straightforward and clear enough in theory, but many liberals find themselves confused when confronted with, for example, being accepting of traditional forms of dress, versus women being obligated by law to cover their head and/or face. Another example is the various traditions of marriage preformed around the world, versus accepting child marriage as a form of "culture”.
    (Thanks to Aceadria for the link.)
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    Why don't you guys ever focus on US and the change we're fighting for, whilst risking our lives? I'm a 19 year old girl who lives in Pakistan who is fighting for women rights. I've founded my own youth initiative and am actively trying to make a difference, along with thousands of girls and women back here. This whole thread has been mainly been fighting about extremists, which by the way gives them huge leverage. All you can do is focus on them and, Islam. Do we only get noticed by all of you, when were shot in the head?

    The best thing you can do for is, is providing support, because its not easy but instead I find some of you mocking and I find that sick. How about you come and take our position instead and lets see how you deal with being a resistant force in such a situation
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    (Original post by Ascend)
    While I agree with much of what you've said here, I think that the term regressive left is a sensible one when we look at many of the cultural relativist positions of fellow liberals that go directly against core liberal values.

    http://www.unsafespeech.com/article/...regressiveleft


    (Thanks to Aceadria for the link.)
    I understand where you're coming and have read the arguments in favour of the term but I strongly disagree with it. I strongly disagree with the way it is thrown around by the Right whenever someone does not agree with their views. There are absolutely some left-wingers who are reluctant to criticise Islam as a faith but in most cases it has nothing to do with opposing liberal values.

    What I have noticed is that many of them have insufficient knowledge of the religion. To top that up when they see Muslims being demonised by a very long list of right-wingers, there is that element of guilt (which should not be there, I know). This is not true for all of the Left but from my experience the majority are empathetic, so they shy away from these things out of fear of a) giving opinions on things they do not understand and b) falling into the trap of bigotry as opposed to mere criticism of a religion or ideology. Once I talk to them about my experiences as an ex-Muslim they are usually willing to listen and will sympathise and change their perspective on certain things.

    As for Sam Harris, while I agree with many of his opinions on religion he does not appear to be a liberal to me. His suggestion of profiling "Muslim-looking" people and apologia for the so-called War on Terror are not exactly in line with liberal values. But I digress...
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    (Original post by Ruby17)
    Why don't you guys ever focus on US and the change we're fighting for, whilst risking our lives? I'm a 19 year old girl who lives in Pakistan who is fighting for women rights. I've founded my own youth initiative and am actively trying to make a difference, along with thousands of girls and women back here. This whole thread has been mainly been fighting about extremists, which by the way gives them huge leverage. All you can do is focus on them and, Islam. Do we only get noticed by all of you, when were shot in the head?

    The best thing you can do for is, is providing support, because its not easy but instead I find some of you mocking and I find that sick. How about you come and take our position instead and lets see how you deal with being a resistant force in such a situation
    I agree with you completely Ruby. I'm 100% behind you and every woman (and man) working for change in Pakistan and every other male-dominated society. The best thing that feminists in the West like me can do to promote women's rights in Pakistan is to give all of our support to the brave women who are actually making a difference.

    The unfortunate truth is that many of the people you see on this thread don't care about such things, they have ulterior motives.
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    (Original post by IAmNero)
    The burden of proof lies on you, you refuted the statement.
    God is real.

    If you refute this statement, you have to give hard evidence (which you can't do since there is no hard evidence against God).

    Does this sound right to you? Obviously not - since I made the claim, the burden of proof is on me, so similarly it's on him.
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    (Original post by Ruby17)
    Why don't you guys ever focus on US and the change we're fighting for, whilst risking our lives?
    I'm afraid that situation will continue while Pakistan gives power to the mullahs in the form of a constitution that enshrines Islam in its law-making, and many of its people are superstitiously wedded to Islam and cultures that have developed based on it. I wish you well in your campaign.

    Unfortunately, as you can tell from the apologists in this thread, we in the west have people who think Islam is perfect and that it either does not condone violence against women (which it obviously does, based on the Koran and the reaction of Pakistan's religious leaders to this bill), or they don't care about the violence.

    One would hope they would come in to condemn the violence and the backward resistance to attempts to reform (and I have challenged them to do so in this thread), but instead they choose to whine about Islam being criticised. That tells you where their priorities and allegiances lie.

    You have my best wishes for a successful campaign.
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    God is real.

    If you refute this statement, you have to give hard evidence (which you can't do since there is no hard evidence against God).

    Does this sound right to you? Obviously not - since I made the claim, the burden of proof is on me, so similarly it's on him.
    Instead of distracting by debating the existence of gods in the wrong place, why don't you condemn the religious leaders who seek to thwart the Pakistani women's attempt to gain legal protections from violence?
 
 
 
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