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Women Protection Bill protested by religious leaders as 'un-Islamic' Watch

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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    It's not my fault that you did not read the whole thread. Like I said I do not feel the need to prove myself to the likes of you.
    Yet you fell he needs to prove himself to the likes of you

    Odd that.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    We are western, white, male and atheist. The lowest of the low.
    It does seem that way

    Yet oddly she is a member of the atheist society.
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    Yet you fell he needs to prove himself to the likes of you

    Odd that.
    Where did I say that he needed to prove himself? He has the choice whether to reply to me or not and he can choose how he replies.
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    Where did I say that he needed to prove himself? He has the choice whether to reply to me or not and he can choose how he replies.
    All along you have been attacking him for offering his support

    He does not need to seek the approval of you before he offers his support to any cause he decided is worthy of supporting

    You seem to have issues with this but don't want to be honest about what these issues are (it's pretty obvious though)

    Rather patronising of you really and does nothing to help Ruby at all but then that's not what you are about is it.
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    All along you have been attacking him for offering his support

    He does not need to seek the approval of you before he offers his support to any cause he decided is worthy of supporting

    You seem to have issues with this but don't want to be honest about what these issues are (it's pretty obvious though)

    Rather patronising of you really and does nothing to help Ruby at all but then that's not what you are about is it.
    I called him out on the half-baked, shoddy manner in which he offered his "support".

    I did not ask him to seek my approval or tell him what to "support".

    Who did I patronise and how? Do tell me about these "issues" you have assessed me to have because I am dying to know.

    In a thread in which people joke about domestic abuse against "other" women and no one but me calls them out, it's safe to say that a number of people here have "issues that they don't want to be honest about". I'm sure that the women whose husbands have beaten them and used that verse as a justification must be dying with laughter.
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    By the way I'm sure that Ruby can speak for herself about what she thinks of a lot of what has been said on this thread.

    Oh wait, she already did, except that most of what she said was readily ignored and cast aside.
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    dying with laughter.
    You called him out because of your issues

    As I said I'll leave you alone with that massive chip you have (or if you want to pm queen Bee about me a bit more to make yourself feel a little better the knock yourself out)
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    You called him out because of your issues

    As I said I'll leave you alone with that massive chip you have (or if you want to pm queen Bee about me a bit more to make yourself feel a little better the knock yourself out)
    :yawn:
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    We are western, white, male and atheist. The lowest of the low.
    I'm only three out of those four things, so am I slightly less low? :curious:
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    We are western, white, male and atheist. The lowest of the low.
    Self-proclaimed victimhood right there, your attitude is the problem. Sort of like those self-righteous people who go over to third world countries to "build" worthless "schools" to boost their egos.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    We are western, white, male and atheist. The lowest of the low.

    I'm only 2 of those things
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    (Original post by HucktheForde)
    "Diamonds". Al mudari once said women are treated like diamonds in islam. How precious! !

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Kept in a vault, safe and away from prying eyes most of the year, brought out to be polished and looked at every now and again?
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    There are absolutely some left-wingers who are reluctant to criticise Islam as a faith but in most cases it has nothing to do with opposing liberal values.
    If you fail to criticise the faith you fail to stand up for liberal values. Where there is conflict, and we all know there are many instances of the conflict.

    In fact, arguably, there is a strand, a small strand but a strand, of the religion which is actually at WAR with western liberalism.
    (Original post by WBZ144)
    What I have noticed is that many of them have insufficient knowledge of the religion. To top that up when they see Muslims being demonised by a very long list of right-wingers.
    True enough on the first point. But why don't they take the trouble to research it? They don't seem to want to know the truth.

    On the second point we need to take this simplistic left, right axis out of the debate. It is about fighting intolerance and standing up for liberal values. Something both left and right should agree on.
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    Self-proclaimed victimhood right there,
    Your sarcasm detector is on the blink, I think.
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    (Original post by Achaea)
    And don't forget 'wrapped candies'. As opposed, of course, to all us women who don't wear a piece of cloth on our heads and are therefore dirty unwrapped candies who attract flies and can be thrown on the floor. Mashallah, this likening of women to inanimate objects is just so empowering and awesome!

    I read an article once about Muhammad Ali where he was telling his daughter(s?) all this crap about women being 'diamonds' and 'pearls' which are 'covered and protected' and 'hard to reach'. Absolutely sickening, though of course it gets repeated on some websites as though it's awesome and somehow respectful to women. Yuck yuck yuck.
    I don't even think the sweet analogy makes much sense considering that you have to unwrap a sweet to eat it. No one buys sweets to keep them in their wrapper indefinitely.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Your sarcasm detector is on the blink, I think.
    Yes, I can so relate to crying victim of prejudice over my sex, religious beliefs (or lack thereof) and ethnicity when none of these things were mentioned in a negative light or implied to be so. I am sure, having done this so many times that there are examples of me doing so that people may quote.

    It's very funny that this persecution complex is coming from some of the very same people complaining about Muslims crying "Islamophobia" at any negative mention of Islam. And for the record I am an Atheist and a Westerner as well. This does not mean that I have to silently put up with whatever BS any Atheist or Westerner comes out with.
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    (Original post by JezWeCan!)
    If you fail to criticise the faith you fail to stand up for liberal values. Where there is conflict, and we all know there are many instances of the conflict.

    In fact, arguably, there is a strand, a small strand but a strand, of the religion which is actually at WAR with western liberalism.

    True enough on the first point. But why don't they take the trouble to research it? They don't seem to want to know the truth.

    On the second point we need to take this simplistic left, right axis out of the debate. It is about fighting intolerance and standing up for liberal values. Something both left and right should agree on.
    While I agree that they should be educating themselves and becoming familiar with the teachings of the religion so that they are able to criticise what conflicts with liberal values, I disagree that they are "regressive". A lot of them are concerned about what this would mean for inclusion, although they're going about things the wrong way. During my undergrad years I would sometimes attend meetings held by the Feminist Society and in these meetings people would address issues faced by women in various parts of the world, including Muslim countries. While they would the disciss the systematic oppression against women in these countries, there was a reluctance to pinpoint Islam as a primary cause for this oppression.

    At the time I was non-practicing Muslim who would not have felt threatened or intimidated if they had but I could tell that they did not want to risk alienating me and other Muslims within the society so they would simply dance around the topic of Islam's role in all of it. When you have a movement that welcomes people from all backgrounds, sometimes it can be tricky to strike a balance. Do I believe that they should do a better job at identifying the parts of Islam that contradict liberalism? Absolutely. But I understand why they are the way they are.
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    (Original post by Ruby17)
    Why don't you guys ever focus on US and the change we're fighting for, whilst risking our lives? I'm a 19 year old girl who lives in Pakistan who is fighting for women rights. I've founded my own youth initiative and am actively trying to make a difference, along with thousands of girls and women back here. This whole thread has been mainly been fighting about extremists, which by the way gives them huge leverage. All you can do is focus on them and, Islam. Do we only get noticed by all of you, when were shot in the head?

    The best thing you can do for is, is providing support, because its not easy but instead I find some of you mocking and I find that sick. How about you come and take our position instead and lets see how you deal with being a resistant force in such a situation
    (Original post by WBZ144)
    I agree with you completely Ruby. I'm 100% behind you and every woman (and man) working for change in Pakistan and every other male-dominated society. The best thing that feminists in the West like me can do to promote women's rights in Pakistan is to give all of our support to the brave women who are actually making a difference.

    The unfortunate truth is that many of the people you see on this thread don't care about such things, they have ulterior motives.
    It is entirely possible, and reasonable, to both support the struggle of the oppressed, and at the same time oppose the ideology that is causing the oppression. In fact, it is kinda pointless doing one without doing the other.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    It is entirely possible, and reasonable, to both support the struggle of the oppressed, and at the same time oppose the ideology that is causing the oppression. In fact, it is kinda pointless doing one without doing the other.
    Not only that, it is the ideology that is causing the oppression in this case, and preventing its cessation.
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    God is real.

    If you refute this statement, you have to give hard evidence (which you can't do since there is no hard evidence against God).
    If you are talking about the god of Islam, then you can.

    1. Allah is perfect and infallible.
    2. Allah wrote the Quran.
    3. Therefore, the Quran must be perfect (ie. cannot be improved in any way).
    4. The Quran is not perfect.
    5. Therefore it was not written by Allah
    6. Therefore the god it describes does not exist.
 
 
 
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