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Cannabis (Legalisation and Regulation) Ten Minute Rule in House of Commons watch

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    (Original post by ChildOfTony)
    Thats what I mean- we need to eradicate it- the way to cut off a lot of supply is to stop immigration
    Why do you think it can be eradicated? As I said, we've been trying for decades, and it's only getting easier to get drugs. Unless you want to have the Navy patrolling every inch of our coastline, and every single person coming into the country strip searched, you can not stop people smuggling drugs into the country.

    Even if you could, drugs can be made or grown in the UK. It's not hard, and as long as there's demand, someone will do it.

    Prohibition has never worked. The US spent a decade trying to eradicate alcohol. It didn't work. It's exactly the same now. Our police force - which is already overstretched and doesn't have the resources to enforce more important laws - spends time and money hunting down normal, functioning, good people for possessing grams or even milligrams of substances that they only use themselves. They spend a HUGE amount of resources doing this. They then put these normal, functioning, good people through the courts, and then into prisons - which are already overcrowded - which costs hundreds of thousands per person. These people then come out with a criminal record, having missed months or years of their lives, and having spent all of this time around real criminals. People who would otherwise be going through education, or working high-paid jobs, now find themselves unable to get a job, their education is ruined, and their only friends are criminals. They then go on to commit crimes themselves.

    Even after all of this, the people getting caught are a tiny, tiny minority, so people are always willing to risk using drugs and the demand is always there.

    This is an article on the commission's report into drug laws.

    The commission cites examples of countries and US states that have moved down the decriminalisation road. “Countries such as Portugal and the Czech Republic decriminalised minor drug offences years ago, with significant financial savings, less incarceration, significant public health benefits, and no significant increase in drug use,” says the report.
    The war on drugs is entirely political. It's a fact, with evidence to support it, that repressive drug laws don't stop people using drugs, and that they don't cut off the supply. If we could accept the scientific facts instead of parroting decades-old drug propaganda, we'd actually see less addiction and public health would improve hugely.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    Why do you think it can be eradicated? As I said, we've been trying for decades, and it's only getting easier to get drugs. Unless you want to have the Navy patrolling every inch of our coastline, and every single person coming into the country strip searched, you can not stop people smuggling drugs into the country.

    Even if you could, drugs can be made or grown in the UK. It's not hard, and as long as there's demand, someone will do it.

    Prohibition has never worked. The US spent a decade trying to eradicate alcohol. It didn't work. It's exactly the same now. Our police force - which is already overstretched and doesn't have the resources to enforce more important laws - spends time and money hunting down normal, functioning, good people for possessing grams or even milligrams of substances that they only use themselves. They spend a HUGE amount of resources doing this. They then put these normal, functioning, good people through the courts, and then into prisons - which are already overcrowded - which costs hundreds of thousands per person. These people then come out with a criminal record, having missed months or years of their lives, and having spent all of this time around real criminals. People who would otherwise be going through education, or working high-paid jobs, now find themselves unable to get a job, their education is ruined, and their only friends are criminals. They then go on to commit crimes themselves.

    Even after all of this, the people getting caught are a tiny, tiny minority, so people are always willing to risk using drugs and the demand is always there.

    This is an article on the commission's report into drug laws.



    The war on drugs is entirely political. It's a fact, with evidence to support it, that repressive drug laws don't stop people using drugs, and that they don't cut off the supply. If we could accept the scientific facts instead of parroting decades-old drug propaganda, we'd actually see less addiction and public health would improve hugely.
    I think its concerning though. Loony liberalism would have put more drugs on the shelves of supermarkets. I don't agree with it one bit. Atleast glue sniffers was pioneers and used home grown materials. Massive fines and jail sentances are the way forward IMO. Someone caught dealing should get a £250,000 fine and 30 yrs in jail as a minimum. I have a different opinion on drugs for medical use- for example tiny bits of cannabis which will help a medical condition, but if legalised i think their needs to be a limit to how much you can buy per head maybe a card to scan which shows how much allowance you are allowed its dangerous if someone can go into ASDA and buy 10lbs of pure cocaine without any resistance
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    Why do you think it can be eradicated? As I said, we've been trying for decades, and it's only getting easier to get drugs. Unless you want to have the Navy patrolling every inch of our coastline, and every single person coming into the country strip searched, you can not stop people smuggling drugs into the country.

    Even if you could, drugs can be made or grown in the UK. It's not hard, and as long as there's demand, someone will do it.

    Prohibition has never worked. The US spent a decade trying to eradicate alcohol. It didn't work. It's exactly the same now. Our police force - which is already overstretched and doesn't have the resources to enforce more important laws - spends time and money hunting down normal, functioning, good people for possessing grams or even milligrams of substances that they only use themselves. They spend a HUGE amount of resources doing this. They then put these normal, functioning, good people through the courts, and then into prisons - which are already overcrowded - which costs hundreds of thousands per person. These people then come out with a criminal record, having missed months or years of their lives, and having spent all of this time around real criminals. People who would otherwise be going through education, or working high-paid jobs, now find themselves unable to get a job, their education is ruined, and their only friends are criminals. They then go on to commit crimes themselves.

    Even after all of this, the people getting caught are a tiny, tiny minority, so people are always willing to risk using drugs and the demand is always there.

    This is an article on the commission's report into drug laws.



    The war on drugs is entirely political. It's a fact, with evidence to support it, that repressive drug laws don't stop people using drugs, and that they don't cut off the supply. If we could accept the scientific facts instead of parroting decades-old drug propaganda, we'd actually see less addiction and public health would improve hug
    Excellently said. Completely agree.
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    (Original post by ChildOfTony)
    I think its concerning though. Loony liberalism would have put more drugs on the shelves of supermarkets. I don't agree with it one bit. Atleast glue sniffers was pioneers and used home grown materials. Massive fines and jail sentances are the way forward IMO. Someone caught dealing should get a £250,000 fine and 30 yrs in jail as a minimum. I have a different opinion on drugs for medical use- for example tiny bits of cannabis which will help a medical condition, but if legalised i think their needs to be a limit to how much you can buy per head maybe a card to scan which shows how much allowance you are allowed its dangerous if someone can go into ASDA and buy 10lbs of pure cocaine without any resistance
    Terrible attempt at trolling, C- try harder next time.
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    (Original post by ChildOfTony)
    I think its concerning though. Loony liberalism would have put more drugs on the shelves of supermarkets. I don't agree with it one bit. Atleast glue sniffers was pioneers and used home grown materials. Massive fines and jail sentances are the way forward IMO. Someone caught dealing should get a £250,000 fine and 30 yrs in jail as a minimum. I have a different opinion on drugs for medical use- for example tiny bits of cannabis which will help a medical condition, but if legalised i think their needs to be a limit to how much you can buy per head maybe a card to scan which shows how much allowance you are allowed its dangerous if someone can go into ASDA and buy 10lbs of pure cocaine without any resistance
    1) why should there be a limit to how much cannabis you should be able to buy when there is no danger of OD'ing and no risk of chemical addiciton? everything has the potential to be addictive and to be honest everybody is addicted to at least *something* in their lives - that doesn't make it necessarily bad so long as they can function properly in life.
    2) why shouldn't you be allowed to buy cocaine when you can buy alcohol? I'm assuming your beef with coke is that you can potentially OD, but you can OD on alcohol too, right? I've almost OD'd from alcohol once - that doesn't mean I'm going to try and advocate its ban - in fact, I don't think alcohol is a bad substance at all - I and everybody in the world just need to practice moderation and responsibility. a lack of those two things is the cause of addictions, not the substances themselves. I've smoked tonnes of cigarettes throughout my life, but I've never become addicted, whether or not nicotine has chemically addictive properties
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    (Original post by AlmightyJesus)
    1) why should there be a limit to how much cannabis you should be able to buy when there is no danger of OD'ing and no risk of chemical addiciton? everything has the potential to be addictive and to be honest everybody is addicted to at least *something* in their lives - that doesn't make it necessarily bad so long as they can function properly in life.
    2) why shouldn't you be allowed to buy cocaine when you can buy alcohol? I'm assuming your beef with coke is that you can potentially OD, but you can OD on alcohol too, right? I've almost OD'd from alcohol once - that doesn't mean I'm going to try and advocate its ban - in fact, I don't think alcohol is a bad substance at all - I and everybody in the world just need to practice moderation and responsibility. a lack of those two things is the cause of addictions, not the substances themselves. I've smoked tonnes of cigarettes throughout my life, but I've never become addicted, whether or not nicotine has chemically addictive properties
    The lord has spoken- better not disagree !
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    (Original post by ChildOfTony)
    The lord has spoken- better not disagree !
    nah I'm being serious - I think there isn't any reason to treat cocaine/cannabis differently from alcohol and cigarettes - cannabis is obviously the least bad of all of them
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    So the multiple sclerosis sufferer who uses cannabis to treat their pain is a bad person? What about the person with depression that smokes once a month because it's the only time they feel normal? Do you seriously believe that they're bad people? That's absolutely ludicrous.

    As for cocaine legalisation, like I said, it's a FACT that legalising drugs leads to less people using then. So no, if anything, it would probably save the NHS money.
    but why do they NEED to do it, there are other prescribed medications out there that CAN help them - you shouldn't require a drug the is ILLEGAL to feel normal, if you have depression, take your depression medication and go to therapy.

    Young people are easily influence, by keeping it illegal it stops people from taking harder drugs like cocaine which will cost the NHS MORE money than if it was just cannabis abuse.
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    (Original post by runningoutoftime)
    Young people are easily influence, by keeping it illegal it stops people from taking harder drugs like cocaine which will cost the NHS MORE money than if it was just cannabis abuse.
    I actually think decriminalizing weed would make it less of a gateway drug. At school you're taught how bad all drugs are, you are told stories about some girl who died from smoking weed and how you'll get a criminal record and ruin the rest of your life. But then you smoke weed, realize that its not a big deal and get comfortable breaking drug laws which wouldn't happen if it was legal.
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    (Original post by dean01234)
    I actually think decriminalizing weed would make it less of a gateway drug. At school you're taught how bad all drugs are, you are told stories about some girl who died from smoking weed and how you'll get a criminal record and ruin the rest of your life. But then you smoke weed, realize that its not a big deal and get comfortable breaking drug laws which wouldn't happen if it was legal.
    All I'm trying to say is once one drug is decriminalized, the rest will start to follow and I think people only do weed because it's illegal but if it's legal, the likes of ecstasy, cocain and heroin will be the next gateways which will cause a bigger issue?
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    (Original post by runningoutoftime)
    All I'm trying to say is once one drug is decriminalized, the rest will start to follow and I think people only do weed because it's illegal but if it's legal, the likes of ecstasy, cocain and heroin will be the next gateways which will cause a bigger issue?
    Firstly how will heroin become a gateway drug? (I don't think you fully understand the term)

    Its pretty clear that you've never really smoked (or you've done it once and didn't enjoy it). People don't just do it because its illegal, just look at the success of businesses where its been legalised, there are all kinds of recreational benefits to smoking...

    Here's some empirical evidence for you to consider...

    "In contrast with marijuana use, rates of other illicit drug use among ER [emergency room] patients were substantially higher in states that did not decriminalize marijuana use. The lack of decriminalization might have encouraged greater use of drugs that are even more dangerous than marijuana."
    Spoiler:
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    - K. Model. 1993. The effect of marijuana decriminalization on hospital emergency room episodes: 1975-1978. Journal of the American Statistical Association 88: 737-747


    In the past few years, the number of monthly marijuana users in America has steadily risen, from 14.4m in 2007 to 18.9m in 2012. If marijuana were a gateway to harder drugs, one might expect those drugs to become more popular too. Yet during the same period, consumption of most other substances actually fell. The number of monthly cocaine users dipped from 2.1m to 1.7m and the number of people using methamphetamine (“crystal meth”) fell from 530,000 to 440,000
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    (Original post by runningoutoftime)
    but why do they NEED to do it, there are other prescribed medications out there that CAN help them - you shouldn't require a drug the is ILLEGAL to feel normal, if you have depression, take your depression medication and go to therapy.
    And for many people the prescribed medications aren't effective. I know, because I've been through 4 different antidepressants and 3 lots of therapy. There's a perfectly safe, effective medication that I could grow in my own home, but I'm not allowed to use it because you don't want me to. How is that fair?

    Young people are easily influence, by keeping it illegal it stops people from taking harder drugs like cocaine which will cost the NHS MORE money than if it was just cannabis abuse.
    How does this stop people taking harder drugs? So much misinformation. The gateway drug theory is highly flawed and not accepted among the medical community. If people want to take cocaine, they'll take cocaine. They'll probably use cannabis first purely because it's easier to get.

    As the poster above showed, you're simply wrong. We've seen countless times that decriminalizing cannabis (and decriminalizing harder drugs) leads to LESS use of those harder drugs. These are facts, they can't be debated. Criminalization of drugs DOES NOT stop people using drugs.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    And for many people the prescribed medications aren't effective. I know, because I've been through 4 different antidepressants and 3 lots of therapy. There's a perfectly safe, effective medication that I could grow in my own home, but I'm not allowed to use it because you don't want me to. How is that fair?



    How does this stop people taking harder drugs? So much misinformation. The gateway drug theory is highly flawed and not accepted among the medical community. If people want to take cocaine, they'll take cocaine. They'll probably use cannabis first purely because it's easier to get.

    As the poster above showed, you're simply wrong. We've seen countless times that decriminalizing cannabis (and decriminalizing harder drugs) leads to LESS use of those harder drugs. These are facts, they can't be debated. Criminalization of drugs DOES NOT stop people using drugs.
    But it's not perfectly safe..! Ever heard of schizophrenia? You know the illness that is linked to cannabis use?
    I am not wrong, how is it fair that you can voice your opinions but I cannot, I have stated why it's a bad idea and I believe in what I say.
    Criminalisation of drugs does have an impact on drug use
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    (Original post by runningoutoftime)
    But it's not perfectly safe..! Ever heard of schizophrenia? You know the illness that is linked to cannabis use?
    I am not wrong, how is it fair that you can voice your opinions but I cannot, I have stated why it's a bad idea and I believe in what I say.
    Criminalisation of drugs does have an impact on drug use
    Linked to cannabis use? Ugh, no it's really not. http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/178/2/116

    "There is however, no robust evidence that heavy cannabis use may lead to a psychotic illness which persists after abstinence".

    I guess you should write to the British Journal of Psychiatry, because you clearly know something that none of the actual qualified psychiatrists in the country know.

    As for criminalisation of drugs.......................... no. You're just wrong. It's not about opinion. Maybe it's your opinion that the Earth is flat, but your 'opinion' would be wrong, because there's empirical evidence against it. If you think criminalisation affects use, but we can actually SEE PLACES WHERE DRUGS HAVE BEEN DECRIMINALISED AND DRUG USE HAS DECREASED, you're wrong.

    Do you actually have ANY evidence to suggest criminalisation impacts drug use? Because this international commission of medical researchers disagrees with you, but you seem convinced that all the scientists are wrong and you're right. I don't understand why it's so difficult to look at what's actually happening in the world and accept the facts.

    I'm not voicing opinions, I'm giving you facts and evidence, I'm telling you what people who are actually qualified to study this believe, and what actually happens in the world and has been observed. You're giving opinions which seem to be based on absolutely nothing, you've pulled them out of thin air or read it in the Daily Mail.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    Linked to cannabis use? Ugh, no it's really not. http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/178/2/116

    "There is however, no robust evidence that heavy cannabis use may lead to a psychotic illness which persists after abstinence".

    I guess you should write to the British Journal of Psychiatry, because you clearly know something that none of the actual qualified psychiatrists in the country know.

    As for criminalisation of drugs.......................... no. You're just wrong. It's not about opinion. Maybe it's your opinion that the Earth is flat, but your 'opinion' would be wrong, because there's empirical evidence against it. If you think criminalisation affects use, but we can actually SEE PLACES WHERE DRUGS HAVE BEEN DECRIMINALISED AND DRUG USE HAS DECREASED, you're wrong.

    Do you actually have ANY evidence to suggest criminalisation impacts drug use? Because this international commission of medical researchers disagrees with you, but you seem convinced that all the scientists are wrong and you're right. I don't understand why it's so difficult to look at what's actually happening in the world and accept the facts.

    I'm not voicing opinions, I'm giving you facts and evidence, I'm telling you what people who are actually qualified to study this believe, and what actually happens in the world and has been observed. You're giving opinions which seem to be based on absolutely nothing, you've pulled them out of thin air or read it in the Daily Mail.
    You clearly have too much time on your hands, I am NOT wrong, I feel that legalising cannabis would be a bad idea, and I'm staying by that opinion.
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    (Original post by runningoutoftime)
    You clearly have too much time on your hands, I am NOT wrong, I feel that legalising cannabis would be a bad idea, and I'm staying by that opinion.
    Please just explain to me what you know that all of these medical professionals and researchers don't.
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    (Original post by runningoutoftime)
    Young people are easily influence
    True, have you considered you may have been influenced to have silly ideas about drugs from all the scaremongering you had thrown at you at school?
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    (Original post by TSRUsername99)
    True, have you considered you may have been influenced to have silly ideas about drugs from all the scaremongering you had thrown at you at school?
    My opinion isn't based on what I learnt t school, my opinion is based on real life experiences that I've had with people who use drugs. The cannabis hasn't been researched throughly enough and the consequences of the prolonged use are yet to be seen as in relation to other drugs it hasn't been around for as long.
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    (Original post by runningoutoftime)
    My opinion isn't based on what I learnt t school, my opinion is based on real life experiences that I've had with people who use drugs. The cannabis hasn't been researched throughly enough and the consequences of the prolonged use are yet to be seen as in relation to other drugs it hasn't been around for as long.
    Nearly two pounds of still-green plant material found in a 2,700-year-old grave in the Gobi Desert has just been identified as the world's oldest marijuana stash.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/28034925/n.../#.VwTg5HpSL_Q

    We know enough to say that its safer than alcohol.
 
 
 
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