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46% of people in England don't believe in free speech

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Original post by joecphillips
But when did he say blacks did it so it was ok?
What he said was that you are happy to blame whites for every part but you are blinded to the fact that the suppliers (blacks) are just as responsible for what happened.
You are saying it is ok to sell people as slaves.

I think what leads to frustration is most black people operate under the misguided notion that intelligence is all someone needs to learn something.

Learning, in fact, requires additional components to intelligence, like consistent practice, research, recall, overall self-discipline, and a need for the absolute truth of things. Whiteness conditions much of this out of most whites by the time they hit puberty.

They say they are not justifying slavery. Then go on to justify it.
Original post by Prince_Paul_246
You explain the reason, then they come back and ask you to explain again, like a two year old. Go back and re-read my comments as I think you are just playing at being stupid


No. I have never in my life justified slavery, and certainly not in this thread. I always condemn it whole-heartedly. You appear to be making the preposterous claim that, because I say that the Africans involved were blameworthy, I am defending slavery. You appear to be claiming that even those Africans that were involved in capturing and selling slaves cannot be blamed.

And, of course, you have resorted to personal insults of those you debate with. That is not a good sign.
(edited 8 years ago)
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Original post by Prince_Paul_246
I think what leads to frustration is most black people operate under the misguided notion that intelligence is all someone needs to learn something.

Learning, in fact, requires additional components to intelligence, like consistent practice, research, recall, overall self-discipline, and a need for the absolute truth of things. Whiteness conditions much of this out of most whites by the time they hit puberty.

They say they are not justifying slavery. Then go on to justify it.


Except he hasn't justified it.

You say that whiteness conditions those things out of whites, so does being black take away intelligence
Original post by Prince_Paul_246
“Africans sold other Africans into slavery ?”

This statement lets the white Europeans off the hook.


You really do come up with arrant nonsense. I haven't bothered to read the rest of your post, as this couldn't be bettered.

It does not let Europeans off the hook. Europeans were blameworthy. But so were the Africans involved. If the chip on your shoulder is so big that you cannot see past it, now is the time to see a surgeon and see if it can be removed.
Original post by Good bloke
You really do come up with arrant nonsense. I haven't bothered to read the rest of your post, as this couldn't be bettered.

It does not let Europeans off the hook. Europeans were blameworthy. But so were the Africans involved. If the chip on your shoulder is so big that you cannot see past it, now is the time to see a surgeon and see if it can be removed.

Don't really know enough about the subject to produce an counter argument - Eh ?

So now the guy get's personal (lol)
I don't think the issue is whether or not some Africans were blameworthy (which I'm sure most people could agree) but what point you're trying to make by repeating the fact.

Slavery is a stain on the history of the Western world, and so is our continued unwillingness to deal with its legacy.
Original post by Ascend
You are seriously upsetting me with what you are suggesting. Please limit your speech.


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Original post by Prince_Paul_246
Don't really know enough about the subject to produce an counter argument - Eh ?

So now the guy get's personal (lol)


Genuinely think this guy is a troll. Either that or he's so deluded/ignorant that he believes all the nonsense he writes.
Original post by Prince_Paul_246
Don't really know enough about the subject to produce an counter argument - Eh ?

So now the guy get's personal (lol)


You are so deluded is laughable
Original post by Prince_Paul_246
“ Because part of white people’s sense of self worth is built on being white and how whites are better than everyone else, particularly blacks. But it is a huge lie, a lie that can only be maintained by not looking at their past – and present – squarely and honestly
it is difficult to understand what you are on about

all people I know and have discussed with disapprove of slavery. As far as we are concerned, it has luckily been (almost) abolished, and I don't know of anyone (except a few Muslim extremists) who would like to reintroduce it

I know no one whose sense of self worth is mainly based on being white, although such persons do exist. And neither is my sense of self-worth based on the colour of my skin

In the same manner, I feel no sense of guilt because of what other people (who happen to share my "colour") have done in the past or are doing at present

Simply, because my sense of identity does not depend, to any significant extent, from my race. It depends from my ideas, my social/political orientation, my economic position, my studies, my cultural interests, my language and nationality, my friendships and social contacts, my personal past experiences, my aims and ambitions. And these do not depend from my skin

On the contrary, it seems that your "blackness" is the most important element of your identity. In my view, this is a very limited approach to the world. You should look around more, and appreciate the immense variety of factors that concur in defining our identities and our societies

yes, racial monomania is a dangerous and limited approach to life : undoubtedly justified in, say, apartheid South Africa, but not in present-day UK

all the best
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by mariachi
it is difficult to understand what you are on about

all people I know disapprove of slavery. As far as we are concerned, it has luckily been (almost) abolished, and I don't know of anyone (except a few Muslim extremists) who would like to reintroduce it


Some right-wing radio host Republicans have suggested slave labour for illegal immigrants in the US... but you're it is thankfully put aside to the fringe of society. Although it exists in some countries.

Original post by mariachi
I know no one whose sense of self worth is mainly based on being white, although such persons do exist. And neither is my sense of self-worth based on the colour of my skin



In the same manner, I feel no sense of guilt because of what other people (who happen to share my "colour") have done in the past or are doing at present



Simply, because my sense of identity does not depend, to any significant extent, from my race. It depends from my ideas, my social/political orientation, my economic position, my studies, my cultural interests, my friendships and social contacts, my personal past experiences, my aims and ambitions. And these do not depend from my skin


Whilst it's good to know history, it is a false sense of self-worth and a clear disrespect to those people who actually achieved something if one is to collectively take the credit through association.
It is important to make the individual more important than the group. There is a word for people who wants to judge according to the colour of one's skin over the content of their character.



Original post by mariachi
On the contrary, it seems that your "blackness" is the most important element of your identity. In my view, this is a very limited approach to the world. You should look around more, and appreciate the immense variety of factors that concur in defining our identities and our societies

yes, racial monomania is a dangerous and limited approach to life : undoubtedly justified in, say, apartheid South Africa, but not in present-day UK

all the best



It is interesting that you mention South Africa. It seems that there was (maybe still is) a black supremacy movement going on that are trying to systematically persecute white people and oust them out of political amd social positions.

http://www.henrileriche.com/south-africa-black-economic-empowerment-enforcing-black-supremacy/

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Original post by Prince_Paul_246
“Africans sold other Africans into slavery ?”

This statement lets the white Europeans off the hook.


No it doesnt, its just an attempt to do away with the imagery of the horde of greedy white Europeans, foaming at the mouth and rubbing their gold coins, while the entire continent of Africa hold hands and dance around fires in total peace. The point is the victims of the African slave trade weren't just Africans, they were African Slaves (and those associated with them), specific people in European and African society benefited and suffered from the trade.

Original post by Prince_Paul_246
I assume you got your views from history books. So I want to ask you : Who wrote the history books ? Did they have an agenda ?


Most history books say what you seem to think they say. When discussing the Atlantic Slave Trade, they place the blame squarely with the Europeans.

But it’s not your fault.

Original post by Prince_Paul_246
Europeans went to Africa to enslave blacks, not to find new land, or other resources.


Not strictly true, as there were other reasons Europeans expanded into Africa (especially in later centuries).

Original post by Prince_Paul_246
This is a history from an African perspective, something you are not used to. A little different from the history you've known all your life. How often do you hear tribes like the Ashanti who fought several battles against the European imperialism ?


I'm not sure what most schools were taught in school about Africa and the Atlantic Slave Trade, I wasn't taught this in school. But it's not like African resistance is wiped from history.

Original post by Prince_Paul_246

It was the Europeans who turned slavery into an industry and introduced their evils.


This is true, something that is similarly commented on the holocaust, the industrialization of genocide.

Original post by Prince_Paul_246

So why all the defences ? Because part of white people’s sense of self worth is built on being white and how whites are better than everyone else, particularly blacks.


Do you seriously not see the hypocrisy in looking down on everyone who share a skin for doing exactly that?
All races throughout history have practiced slavery in some form and it continued in Africa and the Middle East after it was abolished in the West. Thankfully for the most part the world is now rid of it.

This doesn't excuse the abhorrent actions of Europeans in Africa, but the idea that white people can be preached to from the moral high ground by someone who's own race engaged in similar practices is laughable. After all members of each race share collective responsibility for the actions of all other members of the same race according to Prince Paul.

Everyone did it but White people were just more successful at it than most, except perhaps the Arabs.
Original post by Prince_Paul_246
Don't really know enough about the subject to produce an counter argument - Eh ?

So now the guy get's personal (lol)


It really isn't worth further arguing with someone who takes a comment saying Africans hold some blame for slavery as an attempt to justify slavery.

As for personal comments, my comment was directed at what you wrote (which is preposterous), not you, unlike what you wrote about me.
Original post by Fordrin
It's all lies we don't actually have free speech. If we say something that the government doesn't like, we get locked up and get our brains picked at to see why we are so retarded to openly speak out


SMELLS LIKE TEENAGE REBELLION!!!!!!!!! :rock:
Stick it to the chaps in blue - son.
Original post by JamesN88
All races throughout history have practiced slavery in some form and it continued in Africa and the Middle East after it was abolished in the West. Thankfully for the most part the world is now rid of it.

This doesn't excuse the abhorrent actions of Europeans in Africa, but the idea that white people can be preached to from the moral high ground by someone who's own race engaged in similar practices is laughable. After all members of each race share collective responsibility for the actions of all other members of the same race according to Prince Paul.

Everyone did it but White people were just more successful at it than most, except perhaps the Arabs.


Indeed. We are either all collectively responsible for the actions of our racially and ethnically similar ancestors, or we aren't. Common sense would suggest the latter, as people living in the present had literally zero to do with those things.

They'll make the argument, however, thay we're still benefiting from slavery in the present due to the fact our nation's were 'built' on it. This is despite the fact that, for the British Empire at least, it was only a small part of the Economy at that time, and Great Britain arguably spent more resources fighting the trade in the 19th century. Plus there's that little fact that the black people preaching this claim live in and benefit from the same industrialized society we do...

But how far are we going to go back to start blaming or guilt-tripping entire racial groups for slavery, wars, genocides...? It's silly. No-one's ancestors hands are clean. And as it's already been mentioned, most slaves taken from Africa were actually captured and sold by other Africans. So blame them, too. Blame their greed.

Wanna put white people on trial for the Atlantic Slave trade? Build a damn time machine. And most white people weren't even involved in it at the time!
Original post by humanteaparty
I believe in free speech to a certain extent... but if someones making people upset than I think that free speech should be limited for that person.


Yes, and while we're at it, let's make sure that no one can criticise the government anymore because it makes David Cameron very sad. /s
Original post by NickLCFC.
Guessing a large chunk of that 46% are muslims, since free speech is non-existent in Islam. With beliefs like that how are we just standing back and letting these savages into our country?


Muslims only make up 5% of the population. So even if your unfounded assertion was as close to correct as possible and not a single one believed in free speech (not likely), they'd make up less than one ninth of that 45%. May I also point out the irony of you having a go at Muslims for not believing in free speech and then proposing that they shouldn't be allowed into the country because you don't like their opinion?
Original post by Saoirse:3
Muslims only make up 5% of the population. So even if your unfounded assertion was as close to correct as possible and not a single one believed in free speech (not likely), they'd make up less than one ninth of that 45%. May I also point out the irony of you having a go at Muslims for not believing in free speech and then proposing that they shouldn't be allowed into the country because you don't like their opinion?


Although I want to stop Muslim immigration temporarily, you're right about the irony.
In the US constitution, free speech is no longer free speech when it's likely to provoke imminent violent action. I believe that the Muslim demographic falls under that due to the current terror attacks we're seeing around the globe. When you look at it like that, there's not so much irony in suppressing free speech, as it's justified by the potential dangers of Muslim immigration.
Original post by Joel 96
Although I want to stop Muslim immigration temporarily, you're right about the irony.
In the US constitution, free speech is no longer free speech when it's likely to provoke imminent violent action. I believe that the Muslim demographic falls under that due to the current terror attacks we're seeing around the globe. When you look at it like that, there's not so much irony in suppressing free speech, as it's justified by the potential dangers of Muslim immigration.


I think it's way too subjective when you blame entire demographics instead of individuals. The vast majority of Muslims are not terrorists. I could just as equally argue for discrimination against men, because they're far more likely to rape me, or in America white people, who are far more likely to make me a victim of a mass shooting.

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