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Third class degree, what next? watch

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    thou can always tryeth getting a first in gen'ral studies
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    (Original post by Lawliettt)
    Of course they don't have a database themselves. But they know which universities give graduates the specific skills required for a job and which don't. That's why there are companies that target specific uni graduates. Like there's chemical engineering companies in Scotland that target heriott watt graduates. Maths and investment banking graduates at Warwick and LSE are also favoured jobs in their respected fields. And there's companies abroad that only accept applications from candidates of specific unis. A degree in mechanical engineering for manchester metropolitan will be offputting for an employer. Regardless of their interview. Telling yourself otherwise would be lying.


    As for your last paragraph, simply go to all those sites ranked liverpool low on mechanical engineering and see what they factor in. One or 2 rankings? Ok it may not be significant. Every one?( I haven't seen one saying otherwise yet), that's worrying. Once again, I'm not bashing all the departments. I just know mech eng at liverpool is relatively poor. Liverpool isn't the only decent uni with a poor department. UCL also springs to mind with chemical engineering ( http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...7#post63507537 ) . On the contrary, there are also lower ranked unis that are excellent in some specific courses. It's always been that way.
    There's a difference between perceived academic strength (rankings) and how engineering companies recruit (skills, CV and interview). If that Man Met student is more capable of getting the job done and has developed more practical skills than a Cambridge grad, they'll be getting the job. That's how it works.



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    I'll leave the local experts to discuss getting better exam results.

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    If that doesn't work, bear in mind that much of the civilized world has no idea what a third-class honours degree is. The US, for example. People here will list Latin honors and prizes of one sort or another, and occasionally GPA. But the UK grading system is so different that you might get a benefit from its opacity over here. So getting employment out of the UK doesn't have to be impossible, especially if (a) you have work experience and relevant skills, and (b) can explain what was up with you in Year 2 that isn't happening today.


    Still, is it possible to retake this year on account of medical conditions? Take an extra year off to work and get your act together if that will help. If nothing else, that gap year will send a useful signal on what was going on and why exam results aren't the most reliable test of your ability.
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    (Original post by Lawliettt)
    Lol i don't have to search every ranking in the country. Simply google mechanical engineering university rankings. I'll apologise to you and whoever else if you prove me wrong in saying it's mediocre.
    Did you read the point I made? It was basically that rankings, in their current form, and particularly the Guardian one, are crap.
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    (Original post by Princepieman)
    There's a difference between perceived academic strength (rankings) and how engineering companies recruit (skills, CV and interview). If that Man Met student is more capable of getting the job done and has developed more practical skills than a Cambridge grad, they'll be getting the job. That's how it works.



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    A manchester met candidate will most likely not be given the same academic skills needed to even get an interview. I think you under estimate how competitive mechanical engineering graduate roles can be. Civil, chemical and material engineering aren't that bad. Mechanical and aerospace tend to be more difficult. Especially when it comes to top companies like rolls royce or anyone in the formula 1 industry. But putting academics aside, what are the chances that a met student will have more practical skills than a Cambridge one in the first place? One has world class facilities and tutorials. The other is manchester met. Another example is Uni of manchester. They have a lecturer for civil engineering who was part of the team that designed one of the Heathrow terminals in London. Things like this are noted by employers. They need to be. It's their job to bring in the best taught and best suited candidates.

    That's why, as i said before, there are companies that literally have a list of unis that they prefer. And some that only accept candidates from specific unis. Some hold more year in industry places to specific unis than others. Examples being imperial who a have civil engineering company exclusively offering internships to them.

    Company representatives from time to time visit unis and check that the quality of the course is satisfactory. At least that what i got told at Nottingham, Exeter and Manchester last year. I'm assuming it's like that everywhere.

    (Original post by *Stefan*)
    Did you read the point I made? It was basically that rankings, in their current form, and particularly the Guardian one, are crap.
    Your post was basically "lol i can't take it seriously because it's from x site". That's all. If you don't like rankings in general, you still have to question why liverpool mech eng is ranked so low in all of them
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    (Original post by Lawliettt)
    But they know which universities give graduates the specific skills required for a job and which don't.
    What specific skills are Liverpool mechanical engineering graduates lacking in relative to their peers from other universities? Given that Liverpool MEng mechanical engineering graduates from the class of '14 (the latest year for which statistics are available from) had a 100% employment or further study record, with an average starting salary of £27,000, do you think that it might be more likely that you are talking nonsense?

    That's why there are companies that target specific uni graduates. Like there's chemical engineering companies in Scotland that target heriott watt graduates.
    Ignoring the fact that there aren't really any "chemical engineering companies" in Scotland, it's more than likely that the majority of "targeting" is by SMEs looking at their local university(s) or employers seeking graduates from niche courses.

    Lots of oil & gas companies visit Heriot Watt because it's not too far away from Aberdeen and lots of its students would like careers in the industry. It is certainly not the only university that is "targeted" as such by the oil & gas industry, and students from universities that are not "targeted" can still get careers in the industry.

    A degree in mechanical engineering for manchester metropolitan will be offputting for an employer.
    Obviously not otherwise 80% of its graduates from 2014 would not have found work or further study, and their average salaries would not be a respectable £25,000.

    Telling yourself otherwise would be lying.
    You're just making this up as you go along.

    As for your last paragraph, simply go to all those sites ranked liverpool low on mechanical engineering and see what they factor in. One or 2 rankings? Ok it may not be significant. Every one?( I haven't seen one saying otherwise yet), that's worrying. Once again, I'm not bashing all the departments. I just know mech eng at liverpool is relatively poor. Liverpool isn't the only decent uni with a poor department. UCL also springs to mind with chemical engineering ( http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...7#post63507537 ) . On the contrary, there are also lower ranked unis that are excellent in some specific courses. It's always been that way.
    I was actually looking for you to elaborate on what qualities and features are needed to make a university "good" at mechanical engineering, and where Liverpool is lacking in them, not the above nonsense.
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    Erm, maybe it's not the career for you if you have a 3rd? Can usually get a 2.2 through just work
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    (Original post by Lawliettt)
    A manchester met candidate will most likely not be given the same academic skills needed to even get an interview. I think you under estimate how competitive mechanical engineering graduate roles can be. Civil, chemical and material engineering aren't that bad. Mechanical and aerospace tend to be more difficult. Especially when it comes to top companies like rolls royce or anyone in the formula 1 industry. But putting academics aside, what are the chances that a met student will have more practical skills than a Cambridge one in the first place? One has world class facilities and tutorials. The other is manchester met. Another example is Uni of manchester. They have a lecturer for civil engineering who was part of the team that designed one of the Heathrow terminals in London. Things like this are noted by employers. They need to be. It's their job to bring in the best taught and best suited candidates.

    That's why, as i said before, there are companies that literally have a list of unis that they prefer. And some that only accept candidates from specific unis. Some hold more year in industry places to specific unis than others. Examples being imperial who a have civil engineering company exclusively offering internships to them.

    Company representatives from time to time visit unis and check that the quality of the course is satisfactory. At least that what i got told at Nottingham, Exeter and Manchester last year. I'm assuming it's like that everywhere.



    Your post was basically "lol i can't take it seriously because it's from x site". That's all. If you don't like rankings in general, you still have to question why liverpool mech eng is ranked so low in all of them
    This whole post is so pointless. Academic skills aren't assessed in interviews, practical skills and communication skills are... Have you ever had an interview in your life?

    I will repeat, for engineering as well as most non-prestige obsessed employers, the uni you went to isn't factored into the decision making process for who to hire.

    Also it's been stated many times by employers that Cambridge's Engineering degree is too theoretical and doesn't lend itself to real world engineering. So, yes, the chances are pretty darn high that an individual from a more practically-focused university will have the edge.

    If anyone wanted to go into Finance Consulting, Law etc I'd 100% agree with you. But, a very large segment of my family are engineers and my dad did a lot of hiring for his large scale oil and gas employer - university 'prestige' never came into the equation.

    Do carry on, you obviously have years of experience in the area.

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    (Original post by Smack)
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    Lol how can i take you seriously when your argument consists of employment %. And I'm betting this was from uni stats. A site that doesn't look at employment in relevant sectors. For all we know, those Met or Liverpool graduates could be working at McDonalds and raising the % up.

    I never thought I'd see the day where someone defended engineering at Manchester met and Liverpool on TSR. Jesus wept. And you're being naive. What skills the student gained from their time at X uni isn't even the most important factor. That won't be properly shown to the employer after they've got the job anyway. The real issue is applying with a Uni on your CV that's poorly ranked on every ranking in England for that course. Aka the reputation.

    But even aside from all that, I never said attending liverpool will leave you jobless. I'm sure some find jobs. I just said

    A. the mech eng there is mediocre and there there are better unis asking for lower grades.
    B. You're disadvantaged applying there for good engineering graduate jobs

    I'm almost certain that the a significant amount people graduating your source unis with engineering just took their degree and went into accounting or something. Cause you know damn well that 80% of the mechanical engineering graduates at Manchese met didn't go onto find Mechanical engineering graduate roles within 6 months.


    (Original post by Princepieman)
    This whole post is so pointless. Academic skills aren't assessed in interviews, practical skills and communication skills are... Have you ever had an interview in your life?

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    Why argue with me about something you don't seem to know much about? Academic questions are very often asked at engineeeing interviews. This isn't an interview for retail. In addition to that, high standards of academics are required to get a decent degree in the first place. If the first 2 lines of your response are factually incorrect then I worry for the rest of your argument lol.

    Then you've gone onto to say the chances are high of beating a good Cambridge graduate to a graduate role because of Cambridge's style of teaching? Wow lol. Their style of teaching is one of the things that makes them great. But I guess everyone else is wrong and you're right. I'm sure employers prefer Liverpools practicals to Cambridge. The whole point is stupid because it implies general engineering at cambridge doesn't involve practical work too. If it didn't I doubt the course would be as highly regarded.
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    (Original post by Lawliettt)
    Lol how can i take you seriously when your argument consists of employment %. And I'm betting this was from uni stats. A site that doesn't look at employment in relevant sectors. For all we know, those Met or Liverpool graduates could be working at McDonalds and raising the % up.

    I never thought I'd see the day where someone defended engineering at Manchester met and Liverpool on TSR. Jesus wept. And you're being naive. What skills the student gained from their time at X uni isn't even the most important factor. That won't be properly shown to the employer after they've got the job anyway. The real issue is applying with a Uni on your CV that's poorly ranked on every ranking in England for that course. Aka the reputation.

    But even aside from all that, I never said attending liverpool will leave you jobless. I'm sure some find jobs. I just said

    A. the mech eng there is mediocre and there there are better unis asking for lower grades.
    B. You're disadvantaged applying there for good engineering graduate jobs

    I'm almost certain that the a significant amount people graduating your source unis with engineering just took their degree and went into accounting or something. Cause you know damn well that 80% of the mechanical engineering graduates at Manchese met didn't go onto find Mechanical engineering graduate roles.
    'I'm just going to assume that the statistics are BS because I have a personal vendetta against the university. I mean really, how can ANYONE from a NON-TOP RG uni be successful in ANYTHING related to the field? Surely not?'

    ^ Summarises your entire argument.

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    (Original post by Lawliettt)
    Your post was basically "lol i can't take it seriously because it's from x site". That's all. If you don't like rankings in general, you still have to question why liverpool mech eng is ranked so low in all of them
    Before acting like a smartarse, go on and look at the criteria these rankings use. It's not because it's on the Guardian.

    It is safe to say by now you don't have a clue on this area, so stop acting like an expert.
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    (Original post by Princepieman)
    Loooooool, I wasn't going to comment on it. It's obvious to anyone with a decently sized noggin that the rankings the Guardian produce are mostly fluff

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    Isn't it one of four league tables (I think) that we have available?
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    (Original post by Lawliettt)
    Lol how can i take you seriously when your argument consists of employment %. And I'm betting this was from uni stats. A site that doesn't look at employment in relevant sectors. For all we know, those Met or Liverpool graduates could be working at McDonalds and raising the % up.

    I never thought I'd see the day where someone defended engineering at Manchester met and Liverpool on TSR. Jesus wept. And you're being naive. What skills the student gained from their time at X uni isn't even the most important factor. That won't be properly shown to the employer after they've got the job anyway. The real issue is applying with a Uni on your CV that's poorly ranked on every ranking in England for that course. Aka the reputation.

    But even aside from all that, I never said attending liverpool will leave you jobless. I'm sure some find jobs. I just said

    A. the mech eng there is mediocre and there there are better unis asking for lower grades.
    B. You're disadvantaged applying there for good engineering graduate jobs

    I'm almost certain that the a significant amount people graduating your source unis with engineering just took their degree and went into accounting or something. Cause you know damn well that 80% of the mechanical engineering graduates at Manchese met didn't go onto find Mechanical engineering graduate roles.

    What specific skills do Liverpool mechanical engineering graduates lack, what specific qualities and features are required to make a university "good" at mechanical engineering and how is Liverpool lacking in them?


    I propose that, because you have not studied mechanical engineering or ever worked in engineering, you simply no idea of about the above. However, I am unable to find a suitable hypothesis as to why you hold such strong views about a university that you do not attend, especially when it's employment prospects and salaries were statistically above average for the subject in which you are lambasting it.

    I did use Unistats, and you can fabricate criticisms about it all you want (it does in fact look into destinations for employment, which are taken from the DLHE, which has a very strong response rate), but it is an awful lot more insightful than a university applicant. Of the Liverpool lot, 90% went of those who went into employment went into engineering. Of the Man Met lot, it was lower, but many still did and anyone with a decent, which I would define as a 2:1 or above, degree from Man Met has as good a chance as anyone else to get into engineering.
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    Isn't it one of four league tables (I think) that we have available?
    It's the methodology and results it comes up with that make it a dodgy source to use when determining 'prestige' or 'academic strength'.
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    (Original post by smirnoff)
    I don't want any silly responses, I've already heard 'work at Mcdonalds' or 'become like Carol Vorderman.' She got famous for her tits, and I don't have tits.
    I dont think macdonalds would hire you, they need at least a 2:2
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    (Original post by *Stefan*)
    Before acting like a smartarse, go on and look at the criteria these rankings use. It's not because it's on the Guardian.

    It is safe to say by now you don't have a clue on this area, so stop acting like an expert.
    And what exactly does this have to do with liverpool uni being rated badly in mech eng by every ranking?
    If you're not making am actual point then don't reply

    (Original post by Smack)
    I propose that, because you have not studied mechanical engineering or ever worked in engineering, you simply no idea of about the above.

    I did use Unistats, and you can fabricate criticisms about it all you want (it does in fact look into destinations for employment, which are taken from the DLHE, which has a very strong response rate), but it is an awful lot more insightful than a university applicant. Of the Liverpool lot, 90% went of those who went into employment went into engineering. Of the Man Met lot, it was lower, but many still did and anyone with a decent, which I would define as a 2:1 or above, degree from Man Met has as good a chance as anyone else to get into engineering.
    Your first paragraphs was one of the stupidest things I've ever read. I don't need to spend 4 years at an establishment to make a judgement. That's like saying how do we know London met isn't that good if most people have never been there?

    And your second paragraph is objectively incorrect. It's not employment in relevant sectors. For the % you quoted to me, Unistats literally just looks at employment. They most likely do this because it's hard to see where to draw the line. Is becoming a maths teacher a relevant sector for an engineering graduate? What about a teaching assistants? Or big store manager? Or working for a construction company? They don't bother with all of that and literally just look at employment for that %. I shouldn't even need to explain this to you though. Surely one look at uni stats implying 80% of manchester metropolitan graduates beating multiple other candidates to graduate engineering roles after 6 months should raise suspicions? It could be that half of that % went into retail while looking for permanant work.

    (Original post by Princepieman)
    'I'm just going to assume that the statistics are BS because I have a personal vendetta against the university. I mean really, how can ANYONE from a NON-TOP RG uni be successful in ANYTHING related to the field? Surely not?'

    ^ Summarises your entire argument.

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    Once again, not an assumption. And I'm not saying the statistics aren't true. I'm sure they're 100% accurate. It's not reliability I'm questioning. It's validity to the topic and context. I've already said this but:

    A. Uni stats looks at general employment. They say nothing specific about where employment is. It's all general. You often have to visit university websites for details

    B. Averages are averages for a reason. It's very likely that a few of the met graduates took up other jobs that are less competitive and higher paying. But 80% getting into mech eng roles? Lol.

    And you don't need to put words in my mouth. I haven't said anything about non RG Unis as a whole. All I've talked about is MECHANICAL ENGINEERING at LIVERPOOL. It's not good. Don't know why so many keyboard warriors are getting so butthurt over this. Lots of unis have not so good courses. I've already mentioned chemical engineering at UCL.

    Not every course at every RG uni will be world class. ****ing hell
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    (Original post by smirnoff)
    I'm in my final semester of Mechanical Engineering at the University of Liverpool. From my results, it looks like I'm on a third class degree. I did try quite hard, but the course was just so hard and I'm lucky that I passed everything so far.
    Anyway, in terms of jobs, or masters degrees, what next? Is it best for me to go abroad?

    I don't want any silly responses, I've already heard 'work at Mcdonalds' or 'become like Carol Vorderman.' She got famous for her tits, and I don't have tits.
    (Original post by WBZ144)
    You still have your final exams/assessments, don't you? Surely it is possible to push it up to a 2:2 at least. Don't "try quite hard" this time, give it all you've got.

    You do not want to come out with a Third, trust me on that. A friend of mine did and she really struggled. You won't be able to get onto a Masters course at a good uni either.

    You've got around 2 months to turn this around, you can do it.
    (Original post by hellodave5)
    You'll have to get a job.
    You really need a 2.2 for your degree to be used directly with anything.
    (Original post by 999tigger)
    This, although you should try your best.

    You will find a 3rd a hard sell. I would do some postgrad professional qualifications if I were able. get a job and work yourself up. Your options for using your degree for much are really limited im afraid.

    In rare situations some government departments just ask for a degree. If you have mental helath problems then submit mitigating circumstances if your GP will back you. they are only going to take it seriously if at some stage you showed potential i,e you were steady 2:1 and have suddenly dropped to a 3rd imo.

    Go and visit careers or join national careers and talk to them.
    (Original post by JamesN88)
    I've heard it mentioned on TSR before(hardly gospel I know) that you can drop out of a year and then restart it so anything you've done during that year won't count. That way could knuckle down next year and try to get a higher mark.
    This guy got a third class degree and he did well in his career. Be positive.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/c...-Dimbleby.html

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    (Original post by Lawliettt)
    Your first paragraphs was one of the stupidest things I've ever read. I don't need to spend 4 years at an establishment to make a judgement. That's like saying how do we know London met isn't that good if most people have never been there?
    No, my first paragraph was asking you to elaborate on what skills Liverpool graduates lack and what makes a university "good" at engineering, and where Liverpool is lacking. And given that you have not answered it yet, and now even flat out refuse to include it in quotes, it's safe to say that you simply do not have a clue.

    And your second paragraph is objectively incorrect. It's not employment in relevant sectors. For the % you quoted to me, Unistats literally just looks at employment.
    You can't even use Unistats correctly. Click on the "more on employment and accreditation" link and it gives you a more detailed breakdown of what those who went into employment are doing.

    They most likely do this because it's hard to see where to draw the line.
    It's not really. I think if someone has the word "engineer" in their job title it's a good indication of what they are working as.

    Is becoming a maths teacher a relevant sector for an engineering graduate? What about a teaching assistants? Or big store manager? Or working for a construction company?
    What do you think?

    They don't bother with all of that and literally just look at employment for that %.
    Again, wrong, see above.

    I shouldn't even need to explain this to you though.
    What I'm really looking for you to explain is what specific skills do Liverpool mechanical engineering graduates lack, what specific qualities and features are required to make a university "good" at mechanical engineering and how is Liverpool lacking in them?

    Surely one look at uni stats implying 80% of manchester metropolitan graduates beating multiple other candidates to graduate engineering roles after 6 months should raise suspicions?
    Why?

    It could be that half of that % went into retail while looking for permanant work.
    Some did, as Unistats says, but most didn't.
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    (Original post by Lawliettt)
    And what exactly does this have to do with liverpool uni being rated badly in mech eng by every ranking?
    If you're not making am actual point then don't reply
    Are you being serious or are you pretending not to understand?

    Rankins do not measure how good a university is -

    In this table, Greenwich is higher than LSE for economics.
    http://www.theguardian.com/education...bles-2016#S360

    Are you going to say that it is better than LSE and LSE ranks low?

    If you don't know what you're talking about then don't give advice on a topic.
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    (Original post by smirnoff)
    I'm in my final semester of Mechanical Engineering at the University of Liverpool. From my results, it looks like I'm on a third class degree. I did try quite hard, but the course was just so hard and I'm lucky that I passed everything so far.
    Anyway, in terms of jobs, or masters degrees, what next? Is it best for me to go abroad?

    I don't want any silly responses, I've already heard 'work at Mcdonalds' or 'become like Carol Vorderman.' She got famous for her tits, and I don't have tits.
    If you had the oppurtunity to go back, would you do it? What would you change? I ask this because a friend of mine, was in the same position as you and then, she quit her course and re-started at another university...
 
 
 
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