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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    While i doubt it was ever a factor in his timing, i think the fact that it will be over and done with quickly and early in the term will probably negate any damage somewhat. It would have been much more damaging had we had a 2 year campaign that pushed the civil war well into 2018/2019.

    For the Tories, the sooner the leadership election is over, the better.
    Potentially. I'm far more worried about Johnson than Osbourne. Johnson is hugely popular and funny and people don't realise how right wing he is. Osborne on the other hand has lower personal approval ratings than Miliband and makes him look charismatic.

    In polling Osbourne only narrowly beats corbyn!
    Will be interesting to see how bad the civil war gets, the Tories have it within them to tear themselves apart.

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    IDS resigning does not seem to have left the Tories IDS (in deep sxxx), unfortunately.
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    Stephen Crabb has been appointed ss Work and Pensions Secretary. Was the Welsh Secretary- not sure if this is a sideways move.
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    I really hope conservative voters reflect properly on this and grasp the implications.

    Your party calls for austerity measures and says it is tought times and we need to make things 'fair'.

    Lets consider this, are your party's measures about 'fairness'?...

    Firstly, they have been took to court over some of their policy implementations (bedroom tax).
    This suggests to me their measures are not about 'fairness' but rather pushing the boundaries of what is even legal to take money from some of those least able to afford it within society.

    If we look at inequality levels they are rising with those at the top stretching away financially from the rest of us.

    There are countless studies which show that inequality results in lower mortality rates, higher suicide rates, people less satisfied with their lives, poor health outcomes and more strain on the health service as a result, lower educational attainment, etc etc etc...

    Countries which control levels of inequality properly have better outcomes for all of the above and generally get to live in a nicer environment.

    Even if all these cuts were 'fair' they are only going to have one result in regard to inequality.

    I read recently that tens of thousands of people will be losing their disability cars. I mean even if a few are outright taking the piss and milking the system, is that worth leaving many genuine claimants with no transport and possible severing a vital component of their independence?

    One other aspect that this government fails to realise is that people with low income cannot afford to save very easily, instead their money is quickly spent in the local economies and stimulates local business and jobs. Giving tax conscessions to people who will just hide away more money while cutting money to those just surviving takes money away from local economies.

    When a figure so key to all these cuts says he has disagreed with several measures and then quits in disgust at the latest 'indefensible' cuts you really should be asking yourself WTF you are doing proping up these self serving goons. This is a central figure of your own party who would probably bleed tory blood and it is too much for him.

    The thing that really irks me is that we are constantly fed the BS that there are no alternatives. For a start google's tax bill could have been and should have been much bigger. That is the tip of the iceberg with tax avoidance and if the proper amounts were collected from big business the money they are constantly trying to take from the poorest elements of society would seem like chump change.

    The tories are here to serve capitalism which has business interests and profit as the measure of success. How about instead of putting big business's and banks profits at the heart of policy we instead put people and the environment at the centre.

    Lets not measure success by how much bankers and big business can snag from society through capitalism but how much we can improve the lives of the masses of this country.

    Lets start with decent wages! That will reduce the number of benefit claimants, have money pumping through local economies, kickstart the economy and benefit the masses.
    P.S. to anyone who thinks that proposal is left wing claptrap...~
    There are plenty countries with these policies who are doing very well indeed, certainly compared to us.

    Or we could go on lapping up the tory propoganda that everyone on benefits are workshy scroungers (neglecting to notice that the majority of working age benefit claimants are in work). Continue to believe that if we do anything other than throw money at big business they will pack up and leave (ignoring the fact that they stay in plenty countries even when they are taxed properly). Continue to believe we are all 'in this together' (something even one of their central figures laughs at and has resigned) while everyone at the bottom and in the middle are hammered and they award themselves pay rises and cut tax rates for the well off.

    Cameron et all really must be pissing themselves laughing in private and wondering how on earth they are getting enough of the electorate to believe their self serving ******** to keep getting voted in.

    Fool us once, shame on them, fool us hundreds of times over many years, wtf are we doing?
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Potentially. I'm far more worried about Johnson than Osbourne. Johnson is hugely popular and funny and people don't realise how right wing he is. Osborne on the other hand has lower personal approval ratings than Miliband and makes him look charismatic.

    In polling Osbourne only narrowly beats corbyn!
    Will be interesting to see how bad the civil war gets, the Tories have it within them to tear themselves apart.

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    Unless the government falls in the next two months I doubt there will be too many long term repercussions. Realistically by the time the next election rolls around Europe will have been decided one way or another, a new tory leader will be safely ensconced in number ten preparing for an election fight. The tories will do badly in the polls for awhile but will be able to pull themselves together by 2020. Especially if Corbyn remains head if labour till then.

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    I didn't know he even had a job tbh.
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    (Original post by barnetlad)
    Stephen Crabb has been appointed ss Work and Pensions Secretary. Was the Welsh Secretary- not sure if this is a sideways move.
    Definitely a promotion. Andrew Davies is always going to be seen as the more important Tory in Wales.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Unless the government falls in the next two months I doubt there will be too many long term repercussions. Realistically by the time the next election rolls around Europe will have been decided one way or another, a new tory leader will be safely ensconced in number ten preparing for an election fight. The tories will do badly in the polls for awhile but will be able to pull themselves together by 2020. Especially if Corbyn remains head if labour till then.

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    Potentially. But it could have long term repercussions. I'm not so sure that the party will come together again and the underlying tensions will remain.

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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Unless the government falls in the next two months I doubt there will be too many long term repercussions. Realistically by the time the next election rolls around Europe will have been decided one way or another, a new tory leader will be safely ensconced in number ten preparing for an election fight. The tories will do badly in the polls for awhile but will be able to pull themselves together by 2020. Especially if Corbyn remains head if labour till then.

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    i think the tories will win again in 2020 but people need to calm down. They have a majority of what....10? They are not hugely favoured...especially compared to the past when they had a huge majority.
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    (Original post by Reason and Logic)
    I really hope conservative voters reflect properly on this and grasp the implications.

    Your party calls for austerity measures and says it is tought times and we need to make things 'fair'.

    Lets consider this, are your party's measures about 'fairness'?...

    Firstly, they have been took to court over some of their policy implementations (bedroom tax).
    This suggests to me their measures are not about 'fairness' but rather pushing the boundaries of what is even legal to take money from some of those least able to afford it within society.

    If we look at inequality levels they are rising with those at the top stretching away financially from the rest of us.

    There are countless studies which show that inequality results in lower mortality rates, higher suicide rates, people less satisfied with their lives, poor health outcomes and more strain on the health service as a result, lower educational attainment, etc etc etc...

    Countries which control levels of inequality properly have better outcomes for all of the above and generally get to live in a nicer environment.

    Even if all these cuts were 'fair' they are only going to have one result in regard to inequality.

    I read recently that tens of thousands of people will be losing their disability cars. I mean even if a few are outright taking the piss and milking the system, is that worth leaving many genuine claimants with no transport and possible severing a vital component of their independence?

    One other aspect that this government fails to realise is that people with low income cannot afford to save very easily, instead their money is quickly spent in the local economies and stimulates local business and jobs. Giving tax conscessions to people who will just hide away more money while cutting money to those just surviving takes money away from local economies.

    When a figure so key to all these cuts says he has disagreed with several measures and then quits in disgust at the latest 'indefensible' cuts you really should be asking yourself WTF you are doing proping up these self serving goons. This is a central figure of your own party who would probably bleed tory blood and it is too much for him.

    The thing that really irks me is that we are constantly fed the BS that there are no alternatives. For a start google's tax bill could have been and should have been much bigger. That is the tip of the iceberg with tax avoidance and if the proper amounts were collected from big business the money they are constantly trying to take from the poorest elements of society would seem like chump change.

    The tories are here to serve capitalism which has business interests and profit as the measure of success. How about instead of putting big business's and banks profits at the heart of policy we instead put people and the environment at the centre.

    Lets not measure success by how much bankers and big business can snag from society through capitalism but how much we can improve the lives of the masses of this country.

    Lets start with decent wages! That will reduce the number of benefit claimants, have money pumping through local economies, kickstart the economy and benefit the masses.
    P.S. to anyone who thinks that proposal is left wing claptrap...~
    There are plenty countries with these policies who are doing very well indeed, certainly compared to us.

    Or we could go on lapping up the tory propoganda that everyone on benefits are workshy scroungers (neglecting to notice that the majority of working age benefit claimants are in work). Continue to believe that if we do anything other than throw money at big business they will pack up and leave (ignoring the fact that they stay in plenty countries even when they are taxed properly). Continue to believe we are all 'in this together' (something even one of their central figures laughs at and has resigned) while everyone at the bottom and in the middle are hammered and they award themselves pay rises and cut tax rates for the well off.

    Cameron et all really must be pissing themselves laughing in private and wondering how on earth they are getting enough of the electorate to believe their self serving ******** to keep getting voted in.

    Fool us once, shame on them, fool us hundreds of times over many years, wtf are we doing?
    Don't you just love it when people post mini essays thinking people will read it instead of scroll past


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    (Original post by xxvine)
    i think the tories will win again in 2020 but people need to calm down. They have a majority of what....10? They are not hugely favoured...especially compared to the past when they had a huge majority.
    But the media have a brief to play their success up. This division is only the biggest **** rising to the top. Although of course barely reported, let alone spun up, the government has been regularly humiliated in vote after vote in Parliament and has scarcely managed to get any of its programme through. I doubt they are too worried by this as most of the more insane stuff they wrote they expected to discard in coalition. But they didn't count on the thick as pig **** British electorate turning around and voting for it in a plurality.
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    A perspicacious and well informed Guardian CIF comment:

    Suddenly the media is making out IDS is in fact a saint and only resigned on principle for unfair cuts to the disabled. Ha! Do they really think we are all that gullible?

    Six years of horrendous evidence and a UN investigation versus one letter, designed to inflict the blame on Europhile Osborne. The big boy made me do it.

    Anyone who believes this has had a cut price lobotomy. Certainly Osborne and Cameron are ultimately responsible and more resignations should, by rights, follow.Yet the evidence proves these cuts were drawn up and published by the DWP five days before the budget.

    IDS is on film as defending them in Parliament the day after the budget against Owen Smith - who then asked IDS the question disabled people had told him they most wanted an answer to: "How does he sleep at night?"

    The day after the budget, IDS sent a letter to Tory MPs explaining why cuts to disability benefits - which he now claims pushed him to breaking point - were necessary and right.

    He signed off on the budget on Wednesday morning yet didn't resign until late Friday night - and hourafter being told they would be "kicked into the long grass."

    He whipped MPs so hard to vote for the cuts to ESA of £30 a week, after rejection twice by the house of Lords, that even Nadine Dorries complained on Twitter that she was going to vote against, until IDS pressurised her.

    "Stunned at IDS resignation letter. I was about to vote against ESA cuts when he sought me out - he personally and angrily begged me not to.

    "Promised me he was introducing a white paper which guaranteed enhanced and more easily accessible benefits for the seriously disabled."

    "Told me he was angry I was rebelling because it was his bill and reflected on him."

    She claims he told her there would be automatic higher payments for a long list of conditions including Aids, MS, rheumatoid arthritis, motor neurone disease.

    No DWP assessment has ever worked this way. They have no interest in what your condition is called only the way it affects you and your functioning.

    He's defended sanctions - making up fake claimants who claimed being sanctioned "helped" them, despite suicides of people left with no money for months on end. Defended the work capability assessments despite being warned by coroners of suicides as a result of it. Defended the bedroom tax, despite two thirds of those affected being disabled and only recently lost again in the High Court on imposing it on women with panic rooms and grandparents looking after a disabled child. He is appealing to the Supreme Court. A further decision is imminent on a case that the tax is discriminatory against all disabled people. He defended zero hours contracts and said people on them were happier than people in full time work and he has scrapped child poverty targets, claimed that child poverty had fallen under the Coalition whilst being interviewed in front of a massive graph showing it had risen.

    Only the day after the budget, IDS lost a long running court battle of 4years to keep details of Universal Credit secret. He has claimed to the public and Parliament endlessly that it is on track and on budget. This despite the fact that one million people were meant to be on it by April 2014 and only 200,000 of the simplest cases currently are. He has been ordered to publish all the documents - which will show he deliberately lied.The man's entire life history is awash with lies, self delusion and ambition greater than his mediocre capability

    All kept very quiet by the media of course
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    tbf i think its over europe, but if not then fair play for sticking to his principles. this way if the electorate vote to stay in the eu, he cannot be pushed from the cabinet, so he has left on his own terms here.
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    A perspicacious and well informed Guardian CIF comment:
    Or perhaps a more perspicacious Telegraph piece.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...-the-head.html
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    (Original post by paul514)
    Don't you just love it when people post mini essays thinking people will read it instead of scroll past


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    Haha I was about to say "don't tell me this guy actually read it".

    The best thing is someone posted another essay right after you posted that.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    Or perhaps a more perspicacious Telegraph piece.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...-the-head.html
    Zealotry is hardly a virtue now is it? I don't think any of the dead and suffering disabled people are particularly interested in why IDS has been victimising them, they just want him to stop.

    Their charge is that the left doesn't understand IDS. I have well understood the above about him for several years. It's not that we don't understand his mentality, it's just we think it's ******** and so dangerous people die from it.
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    (Original post by ozzyoscy)
    Haha I was about to say "don't tell me this guy actually read it".

    The best thing is someone posted another essay right after you posted that.
    I know right, this is a forum not a peer review


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    (Original post by barnetlad)
    Stephen Crabb has been appointed ss Work and Pensions Secretary. Was the Welsh Secretary- not sure if this is a sideways move.
    I was drafting a witty response to this but then my pembroke

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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    He's a neo-fascist, who views the mass of less well off people as tools to be manipulated in the interests of his power agendas and the 'needs' of the super rich he and his colleagues serve.
    Or, alternatively, he is a man with a deep interest in social justice who has somewhat different views from you.

    Going around calling people "fascists" is the politics of the playground.

    (Original post by LordMallard)
    I have no idea how the government though that this was ever a good idea, there are other ways to find the money and it is clearly going to cause a large row as these are the most vulnerable people in society.
    Because, from a technocratic perspective at least, the aids and appliances changes make sense.

    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    I take a cynical view of IDS's resignation.

    He refers to the impact on the welfare to work agenda but the recent cuts have nothing to do with this.

    The specific cuts announced have been in the technical operation of PIP. They were recommended by the Independent Reviewer. Essentially they remove anomalies in the points system that mean that people who shouldn't really get PIP do so. It is possible under the present rules to get PIP solely through needing aids, usually supplied free or at modest cost, rather from needing ongoing help with the cots of daily living. Currently 35% of awards are being made to people who have no or barely any additional costs arising from their disability.

    These changes would probably have been proposed even if there had been no bid to save money with the cash saved diverted to and targeted on the Mobility Component of PIP where the change from DLA to PIP has significantly affected those able to get assistance with mobility.

    What seems to have triggered this all was the fact that the Treasury was blaming the DWP for these cuts but it is difficult to see how technical changes to PIP could have been thought out except in the DWP.
    Best post in this thread - and displaying a rare understanding of what's actually going on.

    Indeed, the change has been driven by the DWP. They've brought it forward, consulted on it and done so on a fairly speedy timeframe.
 
 
 
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