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    (Original post by Reason and Logic)
    If we look at inequality levels they are rising with those at the top stretching away financially from the rest of us.
    That's simply false.

    To quote the ONS from October:

    "In recent years, there has been relatively little change in levels of income inequality. The provisional estimate for the Gini coefficient for disposable income in 2014/15 was 32.0%, which was not statistically significantly different from the 2013/14 value of 32.4%, but in line with the longer-term trend, which has shown a very gradual decline in inequality on this measure since 2006/07."

    Poverty, a relative measure, is also at a historic low not seen since the 1980s. Check the Households Below Average Income statistics.

    If you're going to talk about poverty and inequality, probably a good idea to realise broadly which way the trends are going.

    One other aspect that this government fails to realise is that people with low income cannot afford to save very easily
    I think they do. It's why the Budget contained measures like the Help to Save policy for people on low incomes.
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    (Original post by TheThiefOfBagdad)
    :rofl:

    Nice to see the Krays doing better than Sauron, Lord of Mordor, emissary of Morgoth the Devourer. But it's close.
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    All the complicated theorising above about why IDS is doing this ignores a simple truth about him, that he's a very, very unpleasant man. I hate to be one to side with Gideon and Call me Dave, but this is so patently to do with his long running feud with them and especially his animus with Ozzie and so totally obviously a play to try to work up the backbench headbangers into even more than their usual levels of headbanging Europhobia, that it's laughable to spend more than a moment trying to fathom if there is remotely any plausibility whatsoever in his stated reasons for leaving and it makes David and George look like sane, rational and responsible leaders in comparison.

    Disagreement over the PIP? Pftt.
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    Utter bollacks everyone I've spoke to about this thinks it's ridiculous. Making a show of himself and everyone's completely unconvinced it's compassion driving his actions here.
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    I don't like the right wing tory backbenchers that complain about the slow pace of deficit reduction, and want a smaller state. Yet they want more spending on defence and policing, probably wouldn't dare cut health and education. And they oppose cuts to tax credits and pip. It's funny to see conservatives that complain about the overreaching welfare state revolt to cuts when it suits them best. They also advocate large tax cuts that would increase the deficit even more. The only thing they want to do is annoy the tory leadership.
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    (Original post by LordMallard)
    I don't like the right wing tory backbenchers that complain about the slow pace of deficit reduction, and want a smaller state. Yet they want more spending on defence and policing, probably wouldn't dare cut health and education. And they oppose cuts to tax credits and pip. It's funny to see conservatives that complain about the overreaching welfare state revolt to cuts when it suits them best. They also advocate large tax cuts that would increase the deficit even more. The only thing they want to do is annoy the tory leadership.
    They could have simply cut the aid budget and had no cuts since 2010 to welfare


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    (Original post by paul514)
    They could have simply cut the aid budget and had no cuts since 2010 to welfare


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    A lot of tories moan about the large size of the welfare state, that doesn't mean that they want to cut disability benefits. But, they always oppose difficult cuts to welfare, seemingly just to annoy the leadership.
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    So now the tories have dropped the disability cuts in a humiliating climbdown.
    This is fantastic to watch, the tories are tearing themselves apart.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    That's simply false.

    To quote the ONS from October:

    "In recent years, there has been relatively little change in levels of income inequality. The provisional estimate for the Gini coefficient for disposable income in 2014/15 was 32.0%, which was not statistically significantly different from the 2013/14 value of 32.4%, but in line with the longer-term trend, which has shown a very gradual decline in inequality on this measure since 2006/07."

    Poverty, a relative measure, is also at a historic low not seen since the 1980s. Check the Households Below Average Income statistics.

    If you're going to talk about poverty and inequality, probably a good idea to realise broadly which way the trends are going.



    I think they do. It's why the Budget contained measures like the Help to Save policy for people on low incomes.
    Here is a link to a review of the Gini coefficient figues which slates this governments performance. It indicates (based on the Gini coefficient) that we are seeing inequality at levels not seen for 40 years. It also points out that further government austerity is likely to make the problem worse. Just because figures stagnated for a year does not mean the problem has gone.

    If you do not think there is a severe problem with inequality that desperately needs to be addressed then you are simply deluding yourself.

    The savings scheme you mention has been largely laughed at. The government will help those able to save £50 a month, obviously you and the government fail to comprehend how difficult it is for people in those situations to save £50 a month.
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    (Original post by paul514)
    Don't you just love it when people post mini essays thinking people will read it instead of scroll past


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    Thanks for your valuable insight, it is important to me.
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    The Tories simply recognize the country is kaput and they are trying to de-leverage people from the welfare state before it collapses.

    Instead of fighting it, start build alternatives, vote to get out the EU to make our chances of surviving better.
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    (Original post by Reason and Logic)
    Thanks for your valuable insight, it is important to me.
    Your insight is important to next to no one as that's who reads it.


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    (Original post by otester)
    The Tories simply recognize the country is kaput and they are trying to de-leverage people from the welfare state before it collapses.

    Instead of fighting it, start build alternatives, vote to get out the EU to make our chances of surviving better.
    Except in a few decades most people will not be working and therefore getting a universal income but other than that ok


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    (Original post by paul514)
    Your insight is important to next to no one as that's who reads it.


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    Cool story
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    Bunch of evil people the Tory Party are.
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    (Original post by Reason and Logic)
    Here is a link to a review of the Gini coefficient figues which slates this governments performance. It indicates (based on the Gini coefficient) that we are seeing inequality at levels not seen for 40 years. It also points out that further government austerity is likely to make the problem worse. Just because figures stagnated for a year does not mean the problem has gone.

    If you do not think there is a severe problem with inequality that desperately needs to be addressed then you are simply deluding yourself.
    Where is this link and how, based on the fact that the Gini Coefficient is showing inequality falling, can it possibly show - based on that figure - that "seeing inequality at levels not seen for 40 years"? That is rationally impossible. There may be other measures of inequality one can look at - but no "review" can make an agreed set of figures show the opposite or what they do.

    In fact, Gini hasn't just "stagnated for a year", it's is currently at its lowest level since 1986, and has been stably pretty low since 2010.

    You simply do not have a clue what you're talking about.

    The savings scheme you mention has been largely laughed at. The government will help those able to save £50 a month, obviously you and the government fail to comprehend how difficult it is for people in those situations to save £50 a month.
    You're talking out the back of your head. The Red Book makes quite clear that Help to Save is will provide a "50% government bonus on up to £50 of monthly savings into a Help to Save account". You don't have to be able to save £50 a month, just anything up to that.

    So please don't tell me something has been "laughed at" for a reason you just made up.
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    For 6 years Labour and many others have been saying that these cuts are not economic necessity but politically motivated. Now the Tories are saying the same thing. IDS went so far as to say that the Tories were cutting from people who don't vote for them like the poor and disabled while doing all they can to protect wealthy penisoners.

    Labour were ridiculed for saying this and couldn't puncture the story narrative. Now thanks to IDS they've punctured it themselves.

    On Tuesday night there is a decent chance Osbourne could be the first chancellor since 1994 to have his budget defeated in the Commons.

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