The Student Room Group

M1 Jan 2004 Q4: Resolving forces?

Two small rings, A and B, each of mass 2m, are threaded on a rough horizontal pole. The coefficient of friction between each ring and the pole is μ\mu. The rings are attached to the ends of a light inextensible string. A smooth ring C, of mass 3m, is threaded, on the string and hangs in equilibrium under the pole. The rings A and B are in limiting equilibrium on the pole, with angle BAC = angle ABC = θ\theta, where tanθ=3/4tan\theta = 3/4.

(a) Show that the tension in the string is 5/2mg.

Done this.

(b) Find the value of μ\mu.

According to the mark scheme, the reaction at A or B is 2mg+Tsinθ2mg + T sin\theta. Why is it not 2mgTsinθ2mg - T sin\theta? In which way is the reaction acting? :confused:

Thanks a million :tsr2:
The normal reaction is acting upwards, and there is a vertical component of tension and the weight acting downwards. So in limiting equilibrium, N=Tsinθ+2mgN = T sin\theta + 2mg
kchika
Two small rings, A and B, each of mass 2m, are threaded on a rough horizontal pole. The coefficient of friction between each ring and the pole is miu. The rings are attached to the ends of a light inextensible string. A smooth ring C, of mass 3m, is threaded, on the string and hangs in equilibrium under the pole. The rings A and B are in limiting equilibrium on the pole, with angle BAC = angle ABC = theda, where tan(theda)= 3/4.

(a) Show that the tension in the string is 5/2mg.

Done this.

(b) Find the value of miu.

According to the mark scheme, the reaction at A or B is 2mg + Tsin(theda). Why is not 2mg - Tsin(theda)? In which way is the reaction acting? :confused:

Thanks a million :tsr2:


As the rings are still the upwards force is equal to the downwards force. We know that the only upwards force is the normal reaction, so by combining all the downward force we can find what it must be.
Upwards = Downwards
Reaction = Weight + Tension
Reply 3
physicsgirlie
The normal reaction is acting upwards, and there is a vertical component of tension and the weight acting downwards. So in limiting equilibrium, N=Tsinθ+2mgN = T sin\theta + 2mg

The vertical component of tension is acting downwards? Why is that? Shouldn't it be acting upwards? :confused:
Reply 4
A diagram here will help you.

Also
μ\mu=mu
θ\theta=theta
Reply 5
zrancis
A diagram here will help you.

Also
μ\mu=mu
θ\theta=theta


I've read the diagram in the mark scheme, but the tension in the string goes both upwards and downwards!? :confused:
Reply 6
Thats down to Newtons 3rd: every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

The tension acts upwards on things it pulls up and downwards on things it pulls down so it cancels itself out if you consider the whole system but because we're only considering the one ring then you only think about the forces acting on that ring.

btw, the latex command for greek symbols is /symbol. eg /mu, /delta etc within latex tags ([*latex] without the stars)
Reply 7
kchika
I've read the diagram in the mark scheme, but the tension in the string goes both upwards and downwards!? :confused:


Yea, I looked at the mark scheme myself, she's right, "T" goes upwards and downwards (so will they not cancel out according to Newton III?). I've attached the diagram below:
Reply 8
Cataclysm
Yea, I looked at the mark scheme myself, she's right, "T" goes upwards and downwards (so will they not cancel out according to Newton III). I've attached the diagram below:


Any tension in any string acts both upwards and downwards. They cancel out when you consider the whole system, not just one body within it.
Reply 9
zrancis
Any tension in any string acts both upwards and downwards. They cancel out when you consider the whole system, not just one body within it.


Heh, I just figured that out one second ago as well! :redface: Thanks for the help!
Reply 10
Cataclysm
Heh, I just figured that out one second as well! :redface: Thanks for the help!


No worries :smile:
Reply 11
kchika
I've read the diagram in the mark scheme, but the tension in the string goes both upwards and downwards!? :confused:


If you think about A or B, the tension in the string will be pulling down so it acts downwards along with the weight. However, if you think about c (is it?), there will be the weight acting down and the tension acting up, holding it in place so it can act in opposite directions for different bodies, hence the diagram showing them acting in 2 directions.
kchika
The vertical component of tension is acting downwards? Why is that? Shouldn't it be acting upwards? :confused:


If you imagine that you are holding the string with a weight at the bottom. The string will be holding the weight up against it's weight, thus exerting an upwards force, but you'll be able to feel it pulling your hand down.