Turn on thread page Beta

Identifying as a different race - transracial watch

    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ThatOldGuy)
    No, you really cannot. You can repeat it as often as you want, but a male will still have the genetic markers of a male regardless of how cleverly someone took a scalpel to their penis. You can repeat that I am 'Ignorant' as long as you want, but it doesn't change the fact that just because something is shaped like a penis does not mean it is a penis. If I glue Michelangelo's David's genitalia to my body, I would not be a dual-penis'd superman. I would just be a guy who glued a sculpted penis to my body. If I glued a sex toy shaped like women's genitalia to my body, I would not be a hermaphrodite. I would just be a guy who glued a sex toy to my body.

    You cannot change your 'sex' to any degree because sex is intrinsic. It is chromosomal. It is one of the first things genetically determined(Though won't show for some time after conception).

    You are part of the problem - Confusing sex and gender is a major problem and part of the reason so much heat comes in to this.

    You are simply wrong.
    No, it is you who is part of the problem. You lack basic knowledge of something that you promote. You say that 'an eunuch cannot be a woman' yet you say it is possible to change gender. Woman is not a biological thing. Female is.

    Sex is not only determined by chromosomes and someone has to have poor knowledge to think so. Although chromosomal sex is quite important, it is not always the best indicator of other aspects of sex. E.g. some male-assigned people with de la Chapelle syndrome have XX chromosomes but some of those men have also SRY gene which determines whether a person has testis. This happens due to unequal crossing over during meiosis. A person like that would have female chromosomal sex but obviously would appear otherwise male. It is aslo important to mention that not all of the people with de la Chapelle syndrome have SRY gene so it complicates things even further.

    Using your logic, women with AIS would be considered 'men' just because they have XY chromosomes and testis. That is not the case in medical profession. Neovaginal reconstruction and neophallic reconstruction is not only carried out on transsexual people, but also on people who lack genitalia for various reasons (amputation, women born with no vaginas, etc) so would you also call their genitalia fake as well? Obviously it is not as natural as the original ones but that's why these are called reconstructive surgeries.
    There are many ways in which sex can be used to describe sex-related characteristics in humans:
    - chromosomal sex
    - nuclear sex
    - gonadal sex
    - somatic sex (although this one is not really used in English speaking world)
    - morphological sex
    - endocrinologic sex
    - metabolic sex
    - psychological sex (although this one can be considered connected to the idea of gender)

    Wikipedia doesn't agree with you as well:
    The term "sex change" is sometimes also used for the whole process of changing gender role ("living as a woman" instead of living as a man, or vice versa), not limited to medical procedures. (This process is often much more important to transgender people than the medical procedures themselves, although medically induced changes and surgeries may be needed to make a change of gender role possible, both socially and legally; they can also have a very significant impact on the person's well-being.)Many people also see "sex change" as factually inaccurate.[16] Sex in humans is usually determined by four factors:Not all of these factors can be changed, however:
    • Chromosomes cannot be changed.
    • Gonads can be removed, but not replaced
    • Hormone status is easily changed
    • Existing secondary sex characteristics can to some extent be changed; existing ones mostly through surgery, non-existing ones can be induced to grow through hormones.
      For example: Changing a male genital anatomy into a good or even excellent female appearance with functioning is complicated, but entirely possible; changing a female genital anatomy into an even reasonably male appearing one however is extremely complicated and not successful very often; function is always limited.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    , All right - You've repeated what you've said, so I'll repeat it again:

    You cannot change sex. You can only change gender. A male who has his penis mutilated is not of the female sex - He is of the female gender. He is as much a female as 'Mother Russia' is - He is gendered to be female his sex remains the same.

    Because of people like you, transgendered individuals believe they will somehow become a woman because their genitals become mutilated. It doesn't work that way and suicide rates of post-ops are through the roof.

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...h.mentalhealth

    Notice the difference between what the doctors state - "Gender reassignment surgery" and what your wikipedia articles state - "Sex change".


    Because people like you promise them that all their issues will be resolved if they just follow their heart, irreparable damage is done. Some studies show a higher than 50% suicide attempt among post-op transexuals.

    If someone wants to dress like a woman, good on them. If someone wants a surgery done to make them look like a woman, I'd definitely prefer a medical professional do it than some Thai back-alley surgeon. But do not presume that sex is changed - That people are magically made the opposite sex because of clever knife-work. You do not do any favors to these people. We have literally decades of information on gender reassignment surgeries. We have seen the terrible toll the suicide attempts take. We have found far larger percentages of post-op regret than there has any right to be - The most famous and recent one being of the boy who was the youngest Briton to get a gender reassignment surgery in history.

    Quoting Wikipedia does not help your case. It only shows how much you buy in to your peers' silliness.



    (Original post by Mii11)
    No, it is you who is part of the problem. You lack basic knowledge of something that you promote. You say that 'an eunuch cannot be a woman' yet you say it is possible to change gender. Woman is not a biological thing. Female is.

    Sex is not only determined by chromosomes and someone has to have poor knowledge to think so. Although chromosomal sex is quite important, it is not always the best indicator of other aspects of sex. E.g. some male-assigned people with de la Chapelle syndrome have XX chromosomes but some of those men have also SRY gene which determines whether a person has testis. This happens due to unequal crossing over during meiosis. A person like that would have female chromosomal sex but obviously would appear otherwise male. It is aslo important to mention that not all of the people with de la Chapelle syndrome have SRY gene so it complicates things even further.

    Using your logic, women with AIS would be considered 'men' just because they have XY chromosomes and testis. That is not the case in medical profession. Neovaginal reconstruction and neophallic reconstruction is not only carried out on transsexual people, but also on people who lack genitalia for various reasons (amputation, women born with no vaginas, etc) so would you also call their genitalia fake as well? Obviously it is not as natural as the original ones but that's why these are called reconstructive surgeries.
    There are many ways in which sex can be used to describe sex-related characteristics in humans:
    - chromosomal sex
    - nuclear sex
    - gonadal sex
    - somatic sex (although this one is not really used in English speaking world)
    - morphological sex
    - endocrinologic sex
    - metabolic sex
    - psychological sex (although this one can be considered connected to the idea of gender)

    Wikipedia doesn't agree with you as well:
    The term "sex change" is sometimes also used for the whole process of changing gender role ("living as a woman" instead of living as a man, or vice versa), not limited to medical procedures. (This process is often much more important to transgender people than the medical procedures themselves, although medically induced changes and surgeries may be needed to make a change of gender role possible, both socially and legally; they can also have a very significant impact on the person's well-being.)Many people also see "sex change" as factually inaccurate.[16] Sex in humans is usually determined by four factors:Not all of these factors can be changed, however:
    • Chromosomes cannot be changed.
    • Gonads can be removed, but not replaced
    • Hormone status is easily changed
    • Existing secondary sex characteristics can to some extent be changed; existing ones mostly through surgery, non-existing ones can be induced to grow through hormones.
      For example: Changing a male genital anatomy into a good or even excellent female appearance with functioning is complicated, but entirely possible; changing a female genital anatomy into an even reasonably male appearing one however is extremely complicated and not successful very often; function is always limited.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ThatOldGuy)
    , All right - You've repeated what you've said, so I'll repeat it again:

    You cannot change sex. You can only change gender. A male who has his penis mutilated is not of the female sex - He is of the female gender. He is as much a female as 'Mother Russia' is - He is gendered to be female his sex remains the same.

    Because of people like you, transgendered individuals believe they will somehow become a woman because their genitals become mutilated. It doesn't work that way and suicide rates of post-ops are through the roof.

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...h.mentalhealth

    Notice the difference between what the doctors state - "Gender reassignment surgery" and what your wikipedia articles state - "Sex change".


    Because people like you promise them that all their issues will be resolved if they just follow their heart, irreparable damage is done. Some studies show a higher than 50% suicide attempt among post-op transexuals.

    If someone wants to dress like a woman, good on them. If someone wants a surgery done to make them look like a woman, I'd definitely prefer a medical professional do it than some Thai back-alley surgeon. But do not presume that sex is changed - That people are magically made the opposite sex because of clever knife-work. You do not do any favors to these people. We have literally decades of information on gender reassignment surgeries. We have seen the terrible toll the suicide attempts take. We have found far larger percentages of post-op regret than there has any right to be - The most famous and recent one being of the boy who was the youngest Briton to get a gender reassignment surgery in history.

    Quoting Wikipedia does not help your case. It only shows how much you buy in to your peers' silliness.
    I hope you are a troll because it is unbelievable that you are for real.

    First of all, you have no evidence to back up your claims. Essentially, you can't because 'sex' is a word used to refer to an individual as a whole. Chromosomes are not a definite indicator of one's sex and many factors are taken in consideration. At birth no one cares about chromosomes and sex is determined by genitalia. Someone may have XY chromosomes and be classified as female at birth.

    I am myself intersex (so according to you I'm some third sex) and I know a lot of transsexual and transgender people (both pre-op and post-op) and personally I don't know anyone who has ever regretted the surgery. Online, I heard about 3 cases , which is quite low taking into consideration the amount of trans people that has undergone the operation worldwide and the whole trans community I have been exposed too for a very long time (both in this country and abroad). If the myth that post-op regret rates are so high, we would have heard about much more suicides. Where is this mythical record of suicide attempts? If they are covered up, then someone is doing pretty good job. You are basing your opinions on some myths - most of them are based on the (in)famous Swedish study (debunked here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brynn-...b_6160626.html).

    If a male is of female gender, then 'he' is a 'she' because pronouns have nothing to do with sex!

    Someone cannot 'magically become member of opposite sex'. However, by means of surgery and hormones a post-op trans woman is no longer a '100%' male. She is not a '100%' female but she is definitely not a member of male sex either because she has gotten rid of male features (such as penis, male hormone levels, gonads, male secondary sex characteristics, etc.)

    The 'boy' you are talking about has not undergone sex change first of all. Beyond of that, 'he' is now living back as a woman in case you don't know.
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...t-says-7093687

    That's why I think people who have no experience regarding the issue should have no right to speak up about it. No knowledge whatsoever but he/she thinks he/she seems 'clever' and cool by spreading bunch of lies and some pseudo facts found on the internet.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    I'm trans-species. I identify as an alpaca.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    I'm transracial with a function of time. Meaning, my race changes depending on who I'm with. Much easier to fit in with a group of black guys, east Asian lot or Indians. I'm like a human chameleon.
 
 
 
Poll
How are you feeling in the run-up to Results Day 2018?
Useful resources
AtCTs

Ask the Community Team

Got a question about the site content or our moderation? Ask here.

Welcome Lounge

Welcome Lounge

We're a friendly bunch. Post here if you're new to TSR.

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.