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Does fee status affect the chances of getting an MSc offers? watch

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    Simply put, does it matter whether one is an international or home student in terms of chances of getting an offer? For instance Imperial MSc in Statistics charges internationals £27,600 whilst it is £9.8k for home students.
    To be totally honest- after submitting my application my status may have changed but I don't mind paying high fees if otherwise I would have been rejected..
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    Of course, it does. Especially for non-top universities. Thing is most unis get money from government and the amount they get is based on the "impact" of their research. This means that, if you are not strong at research, you don't get as much money as top unis, meaning that you need to find other revenue sources. International students are one of them.
    So assuming that you won't mess their ed stats (% of students passing with good marks and similar), they will probably let you in once they can ensure that you can pay them. In fact, most unis go the extra mile and beyond to portray themselves welcoming to international students, and that's because international students bring badly needed money.
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    (Original post by Juichiro)
    Of course, it does. Especially for non-top universities. Thing is most unis get money from government and the amount they get is based on the "impact" of their research. This means that, if you are not strong at research, you don't get as much money as top unis, meaning that you need to find other revenue sources. International students are one of them.
    So assuming that you won't mess their ed stats (% of students passing with good marks and similar), they will probably let you in once they can ensure that you can pay them. In fact, most unis go the extra mile and beyond to portray themselves welcoming to international students, and that's because international students bring badly needed money.

    Hmm yeah that makes sense, thanks. In my case the unis are Oxford and Imperial .
    Basically I got ILR after submitting my applications... so if I understand correctly and as I would have guessed- if I am OK with higher fees, then better not to ask them to consider me as a home student now I guess?
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    (Original post by hassassin04)
    Hmm yeah that makes sense, thanks. In my case the unis are Oxford and Imperial .
    Basically I got ILR after submitting my applications... so if I understand correctly and as I would have guessed- if I am OK with higher fees, then better not to ask them to consider me as a home student now I guess?
    Nope, home students pay less so you probably won't have as many chances to get in. On the other hand, those are top unis, especially Oxford, so your international status might not be an advantage at all.
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    (Original post by Juichiro)
    Nope, home students pay less so you probably won't have as many chances to get in. On the other hand, those are top unis, especially Oxford, so your international status might not be an advantage at all.
    What would you do if you were in my position? Money aside, just to increase chances of getting an offer. I am a bit scared also of pissing off the admissions for letting them know of those changes at this stage? I think such things happen very rarely in general..
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    (Original post by hassassin04)
    What would you do if you were in my position? Money aside, just to increase chances of getting an offer. I am a bit scared also of pissing off the admissions for letting them know of those changes at this stage? I think such things happen very rarely in general..
    I would stay international and then I would go to the Imperial College sub-forum and the Oxford sub-forum for advice.
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    Most, if not all (decent) universities have 'Fair Admission' policies, which mean that home and international fee status should not be judged differently. For most applications it would be outside of a 'fair admission' policy to reject a Home student over an International student who have equivalent grades and similar experience.
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    (Original post by Lollyloo)
    Most, if not all (decent) universities have 'Fair Admission' policies, which mean that home and international fee status should not be judged differently. For most applications it would be outside of a 'fair admission' policy to reject a Home student over an International student who have equivalent grades and similar experience.
    Hmm I hope so.. My concern is that maybe there is some kind of a limit on the number of home students ( I assume they get funding from the government to support home students which may impose restrictions on intake) . I might be totally wrong though.
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    (Original post by Juichiro)
    Of course, it does.
    This is simply not true. There is no concrete evidence to suggest that institutions use fee status to base their decisions. Please only give advice if you know what you're talking about.
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    It's highly unlikely there will be a limit on Home students. Home students don't get any funding from the government at present (there are loans coming in but that doesn't effect numbers). If you are concerned apply with International status, then if you get an offer ask to be reassessed for fee status. Also remember that funding opportunities are different for international/ Home, you don't want to miss out on opportunities, or apply for something you turn out to be ineligible for.
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    (Original post by Lollyloo)
    It's highly unlikely there will be a limit on Home students. Home students don't get any funding from the government at present (there are loans coming in but that doesn't effect numbers). If you are concerned apply with International status, then if you get an offer ask to be reassessed for fee status. Also remember that funding opportunities are different for international/ Home, you don't want to miss out on opportunities, or apply for something you turn out to be ineligible for.
    Surely universities do get funding from the government? Which has to include indirectly subsidizing home students I assume? But yet again, I am not sure. Maybe home students do not cost the universities more than £9k a year anyway.. Can't really find info about that.
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    The 9k fee applies to undergraduate only. At postgraduate level it's a whole different thing- Universities can charge whatever they want for Home students. In general university funding comes from a lot of different sources, such as fees, government research councils, external funding, endowments/ interest.
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    (Original post by Aceadria)
    This is simply not true. There is no concrete evidence to suggest that institutions use fee status to base their decisions. Please only give advice if you know what you're talking about.
    It's not a matter a matter of concrete evidence but of logical reasoning (not sure how you plan on getting reputation-destroying evidence, anyway). Of course, no university that values its reputation will admit to bend the knees to the pile of cash that each international student stands for, but we know that university funding provided by the government has been slashed for a long time, that top unis are the top attraction for international students and the ones getting most of the government extra funding, that postgraduate courses (the vast majority) don't tend to be full at non-top unis and that internationals pay about 3 times (if not more) than home students. It's not hard to see why an international student would be more likely to get an MSc offer at a non-top uni than a home student. Doing otherwise would cause the university to lose money from high tuition fees, lack of research (because research needs money) and lack of extra government funding (because it relies on research).
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    (Original post by Lollyloo)
    It's highly unlikely there will be a limit on Home students. Home students don't get any funding from the government at present (there are loans coming in but that doesn't effect numbers). If you are concerned apply with International status, then if you get an offer ask to be reassessed for fee status. Also remember that funding opportunities are different for international/ Home, you don't want to miss out on opportunities, or apply for something you turn out to be ineligible for.
    Nope, there is not a limit. But there is a limit to how much money you can get from Home students who bring way less money (about 3 times less) than international students. Plus, international students are more likely to bring more money (accommodation fees) which home students might not (cheaper to rent outside uni, easier to find a place if you are a national).

    (Original post by Lollyloo)
    Most, if not all (decent) universities have 'Fair Admission' policies, which mean that home and international fee status should not be judged differently. For most applications it would be outside of a 'fair admission' policy to reject a Home student over an International student who have equivalent grades and similar experience.
    You are assuming that you can compare two qualifications from two different education systems like you could with things like A Levels and BTEC qualifications. That assumption is false. Because of its vary nature, it's very hard to prove when a different judgment has been made. Think about it. If I lower international student a's academic entry criteria, you won't be able to tell because criteria for international students cannot be exactly mapped to that of home students. Hence, you can get away with it. That being said, given the low numbers of postgrad folk (compared to undergrads), the situation doesn't occur.
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    (Original post by Lollyloo)
    1.The 9k fee applies to undergraduate only. At postgraduate level it's a whole different thing- Universities can charge whatever they want for Home students. 2.In general university funding comes from a lot of different sources, such as fees, government research councils, external funding, endowments/ interest.
    1. But the trend is to charge international students more. You will be hard pressed to find a masters course from a non-top uni that charges a 5-figure home fee for a one year course. But you won't have such trouble to do it for an international one.

    2. The whole research grant thing is a game that depends on how much research you already have (aka bottom unis won't get much research grants as compared to top unis). The largest constant source of income for a university is by far tuition fees as this shows.
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    (Original post by Juichiro)
    It's not a matter a matter of concrete evidence but of logical reasoning (not sure how you plan on getting reputation-destroying evidence, anyway).
    And 'logical reasoning' is not necessarily fact.

    (Original post by Juichiro)
    Of course, no university that values its reputation will admit to bend the knees to the pile of cash that each international student stands for, but we know that university funding provided by the government has been slashed for a long time, that top unis are the top attraction for international students and the ones getting most of the government extra funding, that postgraduate courses (the vast majority) don't tend to be full at non-top unis and that internationals pay about 3 times (if not more) than home students. It's not hard to see why an international student would be more likely to get an MSc offer at a non-top uni than a home student. Doing otherwise would cause the university to lose money from high tuition fees, lack of research (because research needs money) and lack of extra government funding (because it relies on research).
    You are ignoring the previous statement you made:

    (Original post by Juichiro)
    Of course, it does. Especially for non-top universities.
    In your above assertion, all universities will be biased in how they select students. It is impossible to assert that fee status results in bias as university admissions remain a multi-step process, with many people involved. Unless we have a standardised admissions process across all universities in the U.K., your assertion is simply false.
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    (Original post by Aceadria)
    And 'logical reasoning' is not necessarily fact.



    You are ignoring the previous statement you made:



    In your above assertion, all universities will be biased in how they select students. It is impossible to assert that fee status results in bias as university admissions remain a multi-step process, with many people involved. Unless we have a standardised admissions process across all universities in the U.K., your assertion is simply false.
    It might not be fact but it is deffo better than random guessing. You probably will ask for evidence that tomorrow the sun will rise and even without giving you evidence I could use my powers of reasoning to state that yes, tomorrow the sun will rise. Of course, given your interest on concrete evidence you probably won't believe it. Yet the sun will rise tomorrow. I could make similar statements without concrete evidence with a high rate of success.

    Fair enough, I should have said most universities. And no, university admission at postgrad level for taught courses tends to be a one-person role. And the interest in international students is a real thing. As I said, international students represent big money and the more of them you can enroll, the more money you get. This doesn't happen at all with home students as that market has already been tapped.
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    (Original post by Juichiro)
    It might not be fact but it is deffo better than random guessing. You probably will ask for evidence that tomorrow the sun will rise and even without giving you evidence I could use my powers of reasoning to state that yes, tomorrow the sun will rise. Of course, given your interest on concrete evidence you probably won't believe it. Yet the sun will rise tomorrow. I could make similar statements without concrete evidence with a high rate of success.
    This is irrelevant to the point you were trying to make. The sun rising and the admission processes across all U.K. universities are two entirely different things.

    (Original post by Juichiro)
    And no, university admission at postgrad level for taught courses tends to be a one-person role.
    Perhaps, but unless you have a standardised admissions process across all universities, such a conclusion cannot be made. As someone who has worked in both undergraduate and postgraduate admissions, I can attest that it was a multi-step process.

    (Original post by Juichiro)
    And the interest in international students is a real thing. As I said, international students represent big money and the more of them you can enroll, the more money you get. This doesn't happen at all with home students as that market has already been tapped.
    You're continuing to make fallacious statements without any concrete evidence for this. I grant that international students represent an important segment, but are you able to prove that bias exists in admissions of students?
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    (Original post by Juichiro)
    Plus, international students are more likely to bring more money (accommodation fees) which home students might not (cheaper to rent outside uni, easier to find a place if you are a national).
    I don't think this is really a valid point as at most Universities the demand for University run student housing far exceeds what is available- and there is no difference in price banding for Home/ International.

    (Original post by Juichiro)
    You are assuming that you can compare two qualifications from two different education systems like you could with things like A Levels and BTEC qualifications. That assumption is false. Because of its vary nature, it's very hard to prove when a different judgment has been made. Think about it. If I lower international student a's academic entry criteria, you won't be able to tell because criteria for international students cannot be exactly mapped to that of home students. Hence, you can get away with it. That being said, given the low numbers of postgrad folk (compared to undergrads), the situation doesn't occur.
    The analysis of equivalence of qualifications is a complicated process with the involvement of many external agencies. Universities use guidelines from bodies such as NARIC. They also consider world rankings and the quality of the international institutions previous applicants have studied at to influence setting of entrance criteria. Results and achievement of previous students are also taken into account, as many students will come with similar qualifications eg. Indian students with Grade X and XII qualifications.
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    (Original post by hassassin04)
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    (Original post by Juichiro)
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    (Original post by Lollyloo)
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    (Original post by Aceadria)
    ...........
    The Admissions decision making is managed at Faculty level. A Faculty will be set a fee income target (among other income targets) by the University, for the next financial year. The Faculty decides, in advance of the recruitment season (Feb/Mar 16 for advertising Sep 16 for start Oct 17), how each course will recruit and they establish targets numbers for Home/EU students and Overseas students. Quite obviously some courses have much more overseas appeal that others, even across a single faculty, ie Economics/Finance/Business degrees might have a 50/50 split of places allocated to bring in Home/EU fees v Overseas fees, whereas History of Art might only have 5% of places budgeted to bring in overseas fees.

    Once the admissions process begins, everything is done to hit those specific targets. Viring of places from Home/EU to Overseas only happens if it is evident that the course is not going to fill with Home/EU students, after additional recruitment campaigns etc.

    The truth is that administratively, Overseas students are generally a much greater burden than Home/EU students. Their social structures are different, they often need additional language and academic standards teaching, they often don't 'get' the academic process at either undergrad or postgrad level, and statistically they are likely to be much more work for the Department/Faculty. So as much as on paper it looks like they bring in more income, they spend it much faster in terms of the greater number of supporting staff you need to employ. The only time you would focus on delivering to Overseas students would be when you didn't have the appeal to get any Home/EU applicants.
 
 
 
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