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    Serious question. Does anyone have any specific examples of him being racist they can give? I bet the answer is no.

    Here's a first hand account of one of his rallies from a black American:

    https://www.facebook.com/Tatumbug34/...8608861209475/
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    He opposes illegal immigration that discriminates against one group therefore it is racism and bigotry in many minds.

    They should have thought of that before millions crossed over illegally bringing crime and drugs?

    The Muslim immigration ban thing was defended even by the likes of Louis Farrakhan. There is deep hatred of America and the West, because of our foreign policy. Allowing the doors open to these people is madness and putting our lives at risk.
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    Is because people have been kind of brainwashed by left wing agenda workshops to basically be anti-racist : anti-fascist activists and basically think like left wing antifa thugs and hate statements like "we will build a wall" even it its to enforce immigration law.


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    I don't get why he's being accused of misogyny either...
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    he's not very PC but he's not racist either.


    it's because people like crying "racist!!" a lot these days.
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    He was sued twice for not renting houses to black people.
    He refused to condemn his white supremacist supporters.
    He described two men arrested for a racial hate crime as passionate.
    Fear mongering over whether obama was born in the US, claimed he even sent researchers to hawaii.
    Spoke positively about a (made up) story, where a soldier dipped bullets in pigs blood to execute terrorists.
    Stereotyped jews as negotiators and good neighbors.
    Said mexicans were rapists, though some might be good people.
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    (Original post by OMG TOOTHBRUSH)
    Serious question. Does anyone have any specific examples of him being racist they can give? I bet the answer is no.

    Here's a first hand account of one of his rallies from a black American:

    https://www.facebook.com/Tatumbug34/...8608861209475/
    Search on Google init

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    Been derogatory about Mexicans and suggested there should be a moratorium on Muslim migration until the authorities get a clue = waycist
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    (Original post by dean01234)
    He was sued twice for not renting houses to black people.
    Being sued for something does not equal to being guilty, from what I understand the allegations are still still just that, allegations.

    (Original post by dean01234)
    He refused to condemn his white supremacist supporters.
    True, but incredibly misleading, as he wasn't refusing to condemn them because he (allegedly) didn't want to condemn white supremacists, but because he wasn't clear who it was he was supposed to be condemning.

    (Original post by dean01234)
    He described two men arrested for a racial hate crime as passionate.
    This is more in the vein of supporting the use of violence than it is racism. I couldn't hear what the press asked to give the response he did though.

    (Original post by dean01234)
    Fear mongering over whether obama was born in the US, claimed he even sent researchers to hawaii.
    How is this racist?

    (Original post by dean01234)
    Spoke positively about a (made up) story, where a soldier dipped bullets in pigs blood to execute terrorists.
    Again, how is this racist? It's no different to people talking about the various violence ways they would exact their revenge on pedophiles, rapists and mass murderers.

    (Original post by dean01234)
    Stereotyped jews as negotiators and good neighbors.
    While certainly stereotyping, I would hardly point to this as an example of him being a racist.

    (Original post by dean01234)
    Said mexicans were rapists, though some might be good people.
    No he didn't. He said that the people immigrating from Mexico were not the best people in Mexico, and among them are rapists. This is more or less a general statement about immigration in general, or at best, a country.
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    (Original post by G8D)
    Hahaha classic Carl :lol:

    (Original post by Farm_Ecology)
    .
    Thanks for saving me the effort of replying. Although I want to add:

    (Original post by dean01234)
    He refused to condemn his white supremacist supporters.

    As well as what the guy above said here is Trump instantly disavowing support from some KKK guy:





    Stereotyped jews as negotiators and good neighbors.

    This is hardly racist to Jews! Also his daughter, grandchildren, and executive vice president are all Jewish and he's a strong supporter of Israel.


    Still no decent evidence of Trump's 'racism' yet!
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    Because he opened his mouth and bile spilled out.
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    Because it's all the liberals have. The 'race card' is typical and, quite frankly, becoming a disgrace to politics. If they actually paid attention to what he's saying and had a look at his policies, they wouldn't be so blind to the truth. The fact of the matter is that the media continues to influence a large demographic of people with misleading articles that contrive the truth and reality of what Donald really stands for.
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    Trump's immigration policy is far from elaborate. Other than specifically targeting Mexicans who cross his border and referring to temporary bans on Muslims, he does not address America's outdated immigration laws, which do more to deter valuable talent and tourists than criminals and terrorists.

    Whether he's racist or not shouldn't be the issue here. Instead, Trump's entire immigration policy needs to be questioned.
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    (Original post by OMG TOOTHBRUSH)

    Still no decent evidence of Trump's 'racism' yet!
    He disavowed him on the video, and then claims he doesn't know who he is in the interview? Also he wasn't exactly damning in your video. It really seemed like he was saying it because he knew he had to, rather than because thats what he believed.

    Positively stereotyping, might be okay if thats all he's doing. When he also holds low opinions of minorities, consistent stereotyping potentially becomes racist and dangerous.

    I don't really know what you expect in terms of evidence, hes not going to turn around and say it outright because he wants to win votes. But there are too many small suggestions to say that he isn't at least making calculated appeals to racism if he isn't in fact racist himself.
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    (Original post by Farm_Ecology)
    Being sued for something does not equal to being guilty, from what I understand the allegations are still still just that, allegations.
    He settled the case. And then changed operating practices. I'd say they're more than just allegations.

    True, but incredibly misleading, as he wasn't refusing to condemn them because he (allegedly) didn't want to condemn white supremacists, but because he wasn't clear who it was he was supposed to be condemning.
    He has already spoke out about duke, so should have an idea about who he is. But even if he didn't, the question said 'will you say that you don't want his vote, or the vote of other white supremacists?' I don't see how that was unclear.

    This is more in the vein of supporting the use of violence than it is racism. I couldn't hear what the press asked to give the response he did though.
    Supporting violence, against a homeless Latino man... They broke his nose and then urinated on him.

    How is this racist?
    Directly racist, no. But when the first black president is elected, guess who is trying to undermine and remove him. Maybe he had another issue with obama, but it does seem very convenient.

    Again, how is this racist? It's no different to people talking about the various violence ways they would exact their revenge on pedophiles, rapists and mass murderers.
    When he also wants to ban all Muslims entering the country, I'd say it shows a hatred towards them. But he doesn't just talk about the guilty, he wants to bomb the families of terrorists. He actually suggested a war crime against Muslims in an interview.

    While certainly stereotyping, I would hardly point to this as an example of him being a racist.
    Racist, maybe not. But its this consistent stereotyping which does suggest that he is racist, especially when he holds such low opinions of some groups.

    No he didn't. He said that the people immigrating from Mexico were not the best people in Mexico, and among them are rapists. This is more or less a general statement about immigration in general, or at best, a country.
    Fine, directly maybe this isn't racist. But its definitely an appeal to racism to try and win votes.


    I don't really know what you expect in terms of evidence, hes not going to turn around and say it outright because he wants to win votes. But there are too many small suggestions to say that he isn't at least making calculated appeals to racism if he isn't in fact racist himself.
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    (Original post by Aceadria)
    Whether he's racist or not shouldn't be the issue here. Instead, Trump's entire immigration policy needs to be questioned.
    (Original post by dean01234)
    Fine, directly maybe this isn't racist. But its definitely an appeal to racism to try and win votes.


    I don't really know what you expect in terms of evidence, hes not going to turn around and say it outright because he wants to win votes. But there are too many small suggestions to say that he isn't at least making appeals to racism if he isn't in fact racist himself.
    I guess I just want to go with the middle view here: the 'race card' does seem to get played too much in this already largely emotion- and accusation-led debate, even to the exclusion of actual examination of Trump's policies and politics. However, it'd be silly to claim that his stance on race wouldn't have an impact on his policy and therefore on whether people want to trust him to take their interests into account as a leader, and though his remarks aren't conclusive they do at least indicate that we shouldn't hope for progress against discrimination (whether to do with race, sex, ethnicity or sexuality - please do ask for examples!) if he does get in. (...And he's definitely pretty sexist, or at least more obvious about the fact that he's sexist than other candidates, if that's a factor for anyone. Again, though allegations of being sexist or racist shouldn't dominate the discussion, they are relevant and it's reasonable to make your decision on who to vote for based on whether, for example, you think they're likely to tackle problems relating specifically to women.)

    He's never (as far as I can tell in my five-minute googling, anyhow : P) said anything that decisively and unambiguously demonstrates that he himself harbours racist views; however, statements such as the wall claim and his comments about Mexicans and immigrants in general clearly appeal to xenophobia, and his past support of the frankly ridiculous birther movement in 2011, announcing that he'd sent private investigators to Hawaii to investigate whether Barack Obama was actually born in the US, is hard to dismiss as not at all indicative of racial prejudice - the only other US president whose birthplace was questioned to such a degree (please correct me if I'm wrong) was Chester A Arthur, who died in 1886, and who was accused of immigrating from Ireland, not Indonesia or Kenya (fun fact: Obama's great-great-great grandfather really was from Ireland).

    Also, of course, there's the whole thing with the 'complete and total shutdown of Muslims coming to the United States until our representatives can figure out what the hell is going on'. For clarification: "Trump campaign manager Corey Lewandowski said Trump’s proposed ban would apply to “everybody”, including Muslims seeking immigration visas as well as tourists seeking to enter the country. Another Trump staffer confirmed that the ban would also apply to American Muslims who were currently overseas – presumably including members of the military and diplomatic service. “This does not apply to people living in the country,” Trump said in an interview on Fox News, “but we have to be vigilant.”" (Biased Guardian quote, but the quotes from Trump and his staff seem to be legit and not taken massively out of context).

    You probably could stretch and find some justification for that in terms that don't mention discrimination, but honestly, why even try? Whether or not his policies are racially motivated, regardless of the fact that they appeal to xenophobia and other ethically dubious stuff, he also seems to have participated in scams and, even more than the other candidates, attacks his opponents with gendered vitriol and ad hominem attacks. Plus, he's consistently supported violence against protesters. This doesn't make him a fascist; it doesn't make him evil; but in my book that makes him the kind of man I do not want to have that much power and influence in terms of policy-making.

    Ha, that got way too long and rambly, sorry. If you find that any of my sources are unreliable or you want more citations, please tell me!
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    (Original post by worshipthesquid)
    I guess I just want to go with the middle view here: the 'race card' does seem to get played too much in this already largely emotion- and accusation-led debate, even to the exclusion of actual examination of Trump's policies and politics. However, it'd be silly to claim that his stance on race wouldn't have an impact on his policy and therefore on whether people want to trust him to take their interests into account as a leader, and though his remarks aren't conclusive they do at least indicate that we shouldn't hope for progress against discrimination (whether to do with race, sex, ethnicity or sexuality - please do ask for examples!) if he does get in. (...And he's definitely pretty sexist, or at least more obvious about the fact that he's sexist than other candidates, if that's a factor for anyone. Again, though allegations of being sexist or racist shouldn't dominate the discussion, they are relevant and it's reasonable to make your decision on who to vote for based on whether, for example, you think they're likely to tackle problems relating specifically to women.)
    I see your point but my issue with the entire election process in the U.S. is that far too much focus is placed on the person and not enough on his or her policies. Let's use Hillary Clinton as another example. Her record on tax reform is preposterous to say the least. And yet, she is getting endorsements from many in the business community. Dare I say it because a) she's a Clinton and b) she's a woman? If that really is how the electorate elects the 'leader of the free world', then we need to be fearful as what happens in the U.S. affects us all.

    (Original post by worshipthesquid)
    IHe's never (as far as I can tell in my five-minute googling, anyhow : P) said anything that decisively and unambiguously demonstrates that he himself harbours racist views; however, statements such as the wall claim and his comments about Mexicans and immigrants in general clearly appeal to xenophobia, and his past support of the frankly ridiculous birther movement in 2011, announcing that he'd sent private investigators to Hawaii to investigate whether Barack Obama was actually born in the US, is hard to dismiss as not at all indicative of racial prejudice - the only other US president whose birthplace was questioned to such a degree (please correct me if I'm wrong) was Chester A Arthur, who died in 1886, and who was accused of immigrating from Ireland, not Indonesia or Kenya (fun fact: Obama's great-great-great grandfather really was from Ireland).
    I don't deny this one bit. My issue isn't with whether he is an xenophobe or not; instead, what do his policies say. As a conservative, I dislike a lot of what Trump has to say. His views on healthcare, 'big' government and lack of knowledge of foreign policy means that he does not represent the things I want to see from the world's leading superpower. But I am able to distinguish between him as a person and his ability to implement what he has said. Ideally, I would like for most democracies to be 'direct' in that we hold major referendums on major policies but not everyone has the luxury of being as small and as efficient as Switzerland. We therefore need to pick a leader that is able to represent us fairly.

    (Original post by worshipthesquid)
    Also, of course, there's the whole thing with the 'complete and total shutdown of Muslims coming to the United States until our representatives can figure out what the hell is going on'. For clarification: "Trump campaign manager Corey Lewandowski said Trump’s proposed ban would apply to “everybody”, including Muslims seeking immigration visas as well as tourists seeking to enter the country. Another Trump staffer confirmed that the ban would also apply to American Muslims who were currently overseas – presumably including members of the military and diplomatic service. “This does not apply to people living in the country,” Trump said in an interview on Fox News, “but we have to be vigilant.”" (Biased Guardian quote, but the quotes from Trump and his staff seem to be legit and not taken massively out of context).
    Quite honestly, this was beyond silly to say. I would like to however point out that far too many voters are basing their dislike for Trump based on this one fact. It's repeated over and over again in the media. Instead, more focus should be on his overall policies towards immigration (or lack thereof). Most leaders make idiotic statements but we should be educating the electorate to not vote for someone based on what their overall stance is on a major issue.

    (Original post by worshipthesquid)
    You probably could stretch and find some justification for that in terms that don't mention discrimination, but honestly, why even try? Whether or not his policies are racially motivated, regardless of the fact that they appeal to xenophobia and other ethically dubious stuff, he also seems to have participated in scams and, even more than the other candidates, attacks his opponents with gendered vitriol and ad hominem attacks. Plus, he's consistently supported violence against protesters. This doesn't make him a fascist; it doesn't make him evil; but in my book that makes him the kind of man I do not want to have that much power and influence in terms of policy-making.
    I agree with you on this. Again, I am not denying whether or not he is a bigot. Instead, the electorate's criticism of Trump seems to be as fallacious as his statements (e.g. Trump only likes white people) and this is not productive when we are trying to create a discourse based on reason.

    (Original post by worshipthesquid)
    Ha, that got way too long and rambly, sorry. If you find that any of my sources are unreliable or you want more citations, please tell me!
    Appreciate your openness to provide sources. It's not often people are that willing on TSR
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    (Original post by Aceadria)
    I see your point but my issue with the entire election process in the U.S. is that far too much focus is placed on the person and not enough on his or her policies. Let's use Hillary Clinton as another example. Her record on tax reform is preposterous to say the least. And yet, she is getting endorsements from many in the business community. Dare I say it because a) she's a Clinton and b) she's a woman? If that really is how the electorate elects the 'leader of the free world', then we need to be fearful as what happens in the U.S. affects us all.
    [...]
    My issue isn't with whether he is an xenophobe or not; instead, what do his policies say. As a conservative, I dislike a lot of what Trump has to say. His views on healthcare, 'big' government and lack of knowledge of foreign policy means that he does not represent the things I want to see from the world's leading superpower. But I am able to distinguish between him as a person and his ability to implement what he has said. Ideally, I would like for most democracies to be 'direct' in that we hold major referendums on major policies but not everyone has the luxury of being as small and as efficient as Switzerland.
    [...]
    I would like to however point out that far too many voters are basing their dislike for Trump based on this one fact. It's repeated over and over again in the media. Instead, more focus should be on his overall policies towards immigration (or lack thereof). Most leaders make idiotic statements but we should be educating the electorate to not vote for someone based on what their overall stance is on a major issue.
    Yeah, I know, it's pretty terrifying. Voting in the US right now must be taking a shot in the dark. - But yes, I guess where we differ is in how important we think issues like how racist someone is likely to be should be in making voting decisions. I agree that character/personality has been way too high profile, but I wouldn't discount it entirely when it isn't completely speculative. His ability to implement what he's claimed is surely linked to him as a person - a history of defaulting on claims, for example, would be relevant, and his attitudes on e.g. race relations are very relevant to his likelihood of success in dealing with discrimination or the problems of relevant groups. Better voting education to stop things like this on both sides, birthers and people who blindly decry Trump as incompetent without evidence (though I'd say one of those is a tad more irrational?), is an obvious necessity (although I'd dispute the idea that 'most leaders make idiotic statements' on the same level that Trump has, and would emphasise that this 'idiotic statement' shows every sign of being indicative of Trump's policies later on, making it very much worth taking into account).

    Pretty sure we agree on everything other than the precise degree to which personality should be taken into account (well, I'm also hopelessly liberal, but this isn't about that). Yay?

    (Original post by Aceadria)
    Appreciate your openness to provide sources. It's not often people are that willing on TSR
    Aw, thanks man. There are totally valid positions that are more subtle and consequently much less easy to support with evidence - like the whole 'although Donald Trump has not said anything that defintiely means he's racist his accumulated remarks can be taken as proof of racist beliefs' viewpoint - that I, cowardly, have steered clear of because I like a nice big safety net of quotes. (Also I am a giant research nerd and citations fill me with joy).
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    He is a authoritarian and that is not what the world needs.
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    I don't believe he's actually racist but I think he's taking advantage of the racism that exists within the USA


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