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    (Original post by A$aprocky)
    You're joking, right? Come on, you must be trolling. That or you're just fundementally stupid.
    Which part?

    You believe there is no distinction between a religion and its adherents? That all members believe the exact same thing?

    Or that people can be members of organizations but not agree with some or all of it's positions. To give examples: people pressured into such groups or those ignorant/in denial of its ideals. And yes, I recognize that these cases might be rare.
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    (Original post by Peroxidation)
    His policy against Muslims is entirely justifiable though. If you look at actual academic research done the views of 'integrated' Muslims, you'll find that about 60% can still be considered extremists. They're proving to be a threat to the lives of the natives so obviously the best course of action is to shut them out until they clean up their religion
    Preaching to the converted, amigo (see my threads FYR e.g. this one) :yy:
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    (Original post by A$aprocky)
    1) Prejudice does not mean racism in this case. Its definitely not racism mate. Racism does always have some form of superiority/ inferiority, which in this case doesnt. Your case for it being racism is fundamentally wrong.

    2) What's wrong with trying to address the issues that non whites specifically face? Its kinda makes you seem racist if you have a problem with him trying to combat the issues non white people specifically face in society. You can deny that white privilege doesnt exist all you want but it really does exist and only Bernie Sanders is prepared to do something about it. He's a socialist, he's gonna help everyone out, just this time he's addressing the non whites specifically.

    3) The media avoided it because they and anyone else who heard about it understood the connotation for what he is trying to say, just in a wordy way to gain support.

    4) But its not true that crime rates are higher. Migrant crime rates are lower than american native born crime rates, even in proportion. Therefore, everything he's saying is exaggerated and racist.
    1) Fair enough. It may not be considered racism, but it's definitely prejudice.

    2) I don't have a problem with him addressing issues that non-white face. I have a problem with him prioritising issues non-white people face.

    3) The media avoided it because they are biased. They could have just taken Bernie's statement without context and reported on it, just like they do with most of Trump's statements.

    4) Trump was talking about undocumented migrants aka illegal immigrants though. It's pretty difficult to find statistics on just Mexican immigrants alone but here are the statistics on illegals immigrants overall (most of which are Mexican). As of 2009 there was around 10.8 millions illegal immigrants in the US, here are the crime statistics from 2003-2009:



    Taking homicide as an example: illegal immigrants commited just over 25k homocides, which comes out at about 58 homocides per 100,000 illegal immigrants, annually. This is much higher than the rate of the ENTIRE US through these years which was about 5.0-5.8 per 100,000 people. It's worth noting illegal Mexican immigrants make up over 70% of the total.
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    If you join the KKK you're most definitely racist. Unless somehow you were just feeling lonely and were looking for some friends to hang out with one night, and saw a poster advertising a KKK meeting... and somehow had never heard of the organisation or it's ideals... and then decided to go and join them for some company.

    As far as I see it he is racist. We can dance around the issue and make all the convoluted excuses we want but to me a lot of the things says and does has undertones of racism to it. Yes, Mexicans aren't a race... but the majority of Mexicans are hispanic. Yes, Islam is not a race but the majority of muslims are either Arab, asian or black. The common thread here is that his most hardline policies are directed against minorities and if you can't see that then you are in denial. He relies on the fact that his support base is made up of a number right-wing extremists (including active promoters of racism) and uses his minority bashing policies to stir them all up.

    So he doesn't share the KKK's views is what people are saying. But the man refuses to denounce them on his own will, is funded by them and probably plays golf with many of them (speculation but I doubt I'm wrong.) In my opinion, any supporter of trump is a supporter of fascism, whether they see it or not.

    These are my opinions, not facts. Although I value source lead arguments I also value common sense.
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    (Original post by worshipthesquid)
    Yeah, I know, it's pretty terrifying. Voting in the US right now must be taking a shot in the dark. - But yes, I guess where we differ is in how important we think issues like how racist someone is likely to be should be in making voting decisions. I agree that character/personality has been way too high profile, but I wouldn't discount it entirely when it isn't completely speculative. His ability to implement what he's claimed is surely linked to him as a person - a history of defaulting on claims, for example, would be relevant, and his attitudes on e.g. race relations are very relevant to his likelihood of success in dealing with discrimination or the problems of relevant groups. Better voting education to stop things like this on both sides, birthers and people who blindly decry Trump as incompetent without evidence (though I'd say one of those is a tad more irrational?), is an obvious necessity (although I'd dispute the idea that 'most leaders make idiotic statements' on the same level that Trump has, and would emphasise that this 'idiotic statement' shows every sign of being indicative of Trump's policies later on, making it very much worth taking into account).
    I see your point but my issue remains that far too much emphasis is placed on the individual and not enough on his or her policies. I think of Hillary whenever I have this type of discussion. Other than her linkages to Bill (who wasn't necessarily the best President either) and her being a woman, her record both in terms of voting and policies is horrendous. She's flip-flopped around, and changed her views (even when compared to other politicians). And yet, a lot of people are still voting for her because they 'like' her. I fail to see the importance of 'likeability' if she has no concrete stance.

    (Original post by worshipthesquid)
    Pretty sure we agree on everything other than the precise degree to which personality should be taken into account
    Indeed. Again, rare on TSR ^_^
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    Since 9/11 there have been far more people killed in mass shootings in America than by Muslim extremists, the numbers aren't even comparable.
    That's not true at all really. Most of these killings aren't written about in the media. Did you know that just under 2 weeks ago a 4 year old boy and his mother were blown up by a Jihadist attack in Turkey? No? Point proven.

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2432...truthrevoltorg
    http://www.clarionproject.org/news/n...ist-extremists
    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/03/vi...er-i-find-them
    http://palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=17517
    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Ne...2#.VvFr4FWLTcc
    http://www.christiantoday.com/articl...says/72088.htm
    http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/at...aspx?Yr=Last30

    The terrorist attack count is currently at 28018 since 9/11.

    And just take a look at the situation in Sweden and Germany: http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...n-refugee-town, http://madworldnews.com/boy-beaten-muslim-migrants/, http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...-asylum-seeker.

    Sorry to break the truth to you mate. Just a word of advice, stop apologizing for Islam. Especially after the slaughter that took place in Brussels today. We need to honor the memory of the victims and prevent more massacres from occurring by spreading the word and fighting the liberals' "you're wacist" comments. If we continue to bury our heads in the sand more people will be killed.

    Edit: Just checked some updated stats, last time I checked the % of muslims who could be considered extremists was at 61%, now it's jumped to 75%. More than enough reason to shut them out IMO.
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    Preaching to the converted, amigo (see my threads FYR e.g. this one) :yy:
    Sorry, I got the wrong idea. Good on you though!
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    (Original post by Peroxidation)
    That's not true at all really. Most of these killings aren't written about in the media. Did you know that just under 2 weeks ago a 4 year old boy and his mother were blown up by a Jihadist attack in Turkey? No? Point proven.

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2432...truthrevoltorg
    http://www.clarionproject.org/news/n...ist-extremists
    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/03/vi...er-i-find-them
    http://palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=17517
    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Ne...2#.VvFr4FWLTcc
    http://www.christiantoday.com/articl...says/72088.htm
    http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/at...aspx?Yr=Last30

    The terrorist attack count is currently at 28018 since 9/11.

    And just take a look at the situation in Sweden and Germany: http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...n-refugee-town, http://madworldnews.com/boy-beaten-muslim-migrants/, http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...-asylum-seeker.

    Sorry to break the truth to you mate. Just a word of advice, stop apologizing for Islam. Especially after the slaughter that took place in Brussels today. We need to honor the memory of the victims and prevent more massacres from occurring by spreading the word and fighting the liberals' "you're wacist" comments. If we continue to bury our heads in the sand more people will be killed.

    Edit: Just checked some updated stats, last time I checked the % of muslims who could be considered extremists was at 61%, now it's jumped to 75%. More than enough reason to shut them out IMO.
    Did you read what I posted? Attacks on US soil (not worldwide) since 9/11 were mostly not done by Muslims. America has far greater problems with several of her other groups than she does with her Muslim community. Most of those going on shooting sprees are White males who are excused as "mentally unstable". You have "exposed" no "truth" to me. Find the stats for all of the people murdered in America and by whom then compare, I have no interest in your deluded rants.
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    Did you read what I posted? Attacks on US soil (not worldwide) since 9/11 were mostly not done by Muslims. America has far greater problems with several of her other groups than she does with her Muslim community. Most of those going on shooting sprees are White males who are excused as "mentally unstable". You have "exposed" no "truth" to me. Find the stats for all of the people murdered in America and by whom then compare, I have no interest in your deluded rants.
    Deluded? I simply showed you some of the statistics. There's nothing deluded about facts.

    I merely pointed out that Muslims have killed so many people worldwide since 9/11 that the number killed by those bombings is negligible in comparison. America has far stricter immigration policies than the soppy idiots who call themselves the EU so naturally there's been fewer terrorist attacks there than in other parts of the world. But is Islamism is a global problem, affecting everyone not just America so using only the figures from America is a highly inaccurate representation of what's going on in the world.
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    (Original post by Peroxidation)
    Deluded? I simply showed you some of the statistics. There's nothing deluded about facts.

    I merely pointed out that Muslims have killed so many people worldwide since 9/11 that the number killed by those bombings is negligible in comparison. America has far stricter immigration policies than the soppy idiots who call themselves the EU so naturally there's been fewer terrorist attacks there than in other parts of the world. But is Islamism is a global problem, affecting everyone not just America so using only the figures from America is a highly inaccurate representation of what's going on in the world.
    In case you haven't noticed Trump is a US presidential candidate, so his policies will apply to America, which is why we are talking about the threat of Islamic extremism in the country where his policies apply. A threat that is very low so makes no sense for him to be focusing on it. Americans have more pressing issues at hand with all of the gun violence in their country.
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    (Original post by sunni money)
    he's not very PC but he's not racist either.


    it's because people like crying "racist!!" a lot these days.
    Racist
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    Being a member of the progressive left is in fact a neuro-degenerative disease called by low testosterone which manifests itself a self-hatred, a high pitched and voice and general cuckoldry.
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    (Original post by Peroxidation)
    Sorry, I got the wrong idea. Good on you though!
    No worries and ta. I'm no fan of Trump tbh, he's a big disrespectful et. divisive demagogue, but he's right to call for a ban on Muslim immigration

    Spoiler:
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    To be honest, the time for a moratorium on Muslim migration was arguably 11/9/2001, if not then 7/7/2005
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    (Original post by dean01234)
    He was sued twice for not renting houses to black people.
    He refused to condemn his white supremacist supporters.
    He described two men arrested for a racial hate crime as passionate.
    Fear mongering over whether obama was born in the US, claimed he even sent researchers to hawaii.
    Spoke positively about a (made up) story, where a soldier dipped bullets in pigs blood to execute terrorists.
    Stereotyped jews as negotiators and good neighbors.
    Said mexicans were rapists, though some might be good people.

    All of which (and more) are verifiable with a quick google search
    Just to correct you on some of your things here. This topic is on racism, which, surprisingly enough, concerns race.

    Just to remind you, Jews are not a race, nor are Mexicans.
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    (Original post by Farm_Ecology)
    Which part?

    You believe there is no distinction between a religion and its adherents? That all members believe the exact same thing?

    Or that people can be members of organizations but not agree with some or all of it's positions. To give examples: people pressured into such groups or those ignorant/in denial of its ideals. And yes, I recognize that these cases might be rare.
    So why did you say there were 'plenty of people'? You're contradicting yourself.
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    In case you haven't noticed Trump is a US presidential candidate, so his policies will apply to America, which is why we are talking about the threat of Islamic extremism in the country where his policies apply. A threat that is very low so makes no sense for him to be focusing on it. Americans have more pressing issues at hand with all of the gun violence in their country.
    Maybe you don't know much about gun violence in the US but I'll clear a few things up.
    Firstly, you can do more than one thing at a time, that's the job of the government.
    Secondly, gun violence is going down.
    ^^^ Expanding on this, the figure used to claim it is going up includes suicide using a firearm which is quite high, especially given the number of soldiers going out that way, which is a very large issue there.
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    (Original post by ikhan94)
    Mate just look at what he says against mexicans and muslims....are you watching the news?
    Well done! You just forgot what a race was! *Claps slowly*

    Muslims are not a race.
    Mexicans are not a race.

    So, how is what he says about them, racist?

    Wow, this generation is so dumb. Also, I don't think he is your "mate".
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    He seems to be targeting crazed racists and bigots for supporters. The fact that he does not care that these are the sort of people he attracts speaks volumes about him. And he's a bigot towards Muslims.
    Please, "Race, as a social construct, is a group of people who share similar and distinct physical characteristics.".

    Muslims are not a race. So therefore, it is impossible to be racist to Muslims in particular.
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    (Original post by NickLCFC)
    1) Fair enough. It may not be considered racism, but it's definitely prejudice.

    2) I don't have a problem with him addressing issues that non-white face. I have a problem with him prioritising issues non-white people face.

    3) The media avoided it because they are biased. They could have just taken Bernie's statement without context and reported on it, just like they do with most of Trump's statements.

    4) Trump was talking about undocumented migrants aka illegal immigrants though. It's pretty difficult to find statistics on just Mexican immigrants alone but here are the statistics on illegals immigrants overall (most of which are Mexican). As of 2009 there was around 10.8 millions illegal immigrants in the US, here are the crime statistics from 2003-2009:



    Taking homicide as an example: illegal immigrants commited just over 25k homocides, which comes out at about 58 homocides per 100,000 illegal immigrants, annually. This is much higher than the rate of the ENTIRE US through these years which was about 5.0-5.8 per 100,000 people. It's worth noting illegal Mexican immigrants make up over 70% of the total.
    1) It's not prejudice since he was talking metaphorically. Everyone else apart from you picked up on that. Saying white privilege exists is definitely not prejudice.

    2) He's not prioritising. He's just addressing that non whites problems need to be dealt with and he's targetting a specific audience. Its only prioritising if he says something like ' im going to ignore all the issues that whites face and concentrate on non whites'. At no point did he suggest prioritising.

    3) Nope, the media knew he was speaking metaphorically and was addressing white privilege. Maybe you may not believe in white privilege but many do. Bernie Sanders is a left wing politician, the media would try to attack him whenever they got the chance.

    4) I dont think anyone's trying to argue that illegal immigration is fine mate. And i wasnt talking about illegal migrants crimes. Im saying that overall LEGAL migrants commit less crime than american born ppl. Thats a fact. And your fact about illegal immigration is also wrong.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...nts-and-crime/

    Look at the link mate.
 
 
 
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