Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by WBZ144)
    He seems to be targeting crazed racists and bigots for supporters. The fact that he does not care that these are the sort of people he attracts speaks volumes about him. And he's a bigot towards Muslims.
    Please, "Race, as a social construct, is a group of people who share similar and distinct physical characteristics.".

    Muslims are not a race. So therefore, it is impossible to be racist to Muslims in particular.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by NickLCFC)
    1) Fair enough. It may not be considered racism, but it's definitely prejudice.

    2) I don't have a problem with him addressing issues that non-white face. I have a problem with him prioritising issues non-white people face.

    3) The media avoided it because they are biased. They could have just taken Bernie's statement without context and reported on it, just like they do with most of Trump's statements.

    4) Trump was talking about undocumented migrants aka illegal immigrants though. It's pretty difficult to find statistics on just Mexican immigrants alone but here are the statistics on illegals immigrants overall (most of which are Mexican). As of 2009 there was around 10.8 millions illegal immigrants in the US, here are the crime statistics from 2003-2009:



    Taking homicide as an example: illegal immigrants commited just over 25k homocides, which comes out at about 58 homocides per 100,000 illegal immigrants, annually. This is much higher than the rate of the ENTIRE US through these years which was about 5.0-5.8 per 100,000 people. It's worth noting illegal Mexican immigrants make up over 70% of the total.
    1) It's not prejudice since he was talking metaphorically. Everyone else apart from you picked up on that. Saying white privilege exists is definitely not prejudice.

    2) He's not prioritising. He's just addressing that non whites problems need to be dealt with and he's targetting a specific audience. Its only prioritising if he says something like ' im going to ignore all the issues that whites face and concentrate on non whites'. At no point did he suggest prioritising.

    3) Nope, the media knew he was speaking metaphorically and was addressing white privilege. Maybe you may not believe in white privilege but many do. Bernie Sanders is a left wing politician, the media would try to attack him whenever they got the chance.

    4) I dont think anyone's trying to argue that illegal immigration is fine mate. And i wasnt talking about illegal migrants crimes. Im saying that overall LEGAL migrants commit less crime than american born ppl. Thats a fact. And your fact about illegal immigration is also wrong.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...nts-and-crime/

    Look at the link mate.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by A$aprocky)
    So why did you say there were 'plenty of people'? You're contradicting yourself.
    No I didnt.

    There are plenty of people, as in there are enough to warrant considering. But rare, in that the number is still small.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    because he white
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Farm_Ecology)
    No I didnt.

    There are plenty of people, as in there are enough to warrant considering. But rare, in that the number is still small.
    Do you have any proof? You're talking very vaguely, just give up mate.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by dean01234)
    He was sued twice for not renting houses to black people.
    Did these lawsuits succeed, and since when was there a quota for having to rent houses to certain ethnic groups?

    He refused to condemn his white supremacist supporters.
    "As I stated at the press conference on Friday regarding David Duke- I disavow"

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...rc=twsrc%5Etfw

    He described two men arrested for a racial hate crime as passionate.
    This needs context, and sounds bad, but doesn't make him racist.

    Fear mongering over whether obama was born in the US
    This is true, and was really stupid of him.

    Spoke positively about a (made up) story, where a soldier dipped bullets in pigs blood to execute terrorists.
    How is this racist?

    Stereotyped jews as negotiators and good neighbours.
    He also said "the Persians are great negotiators". Neither of these statements are racist.

    Said mexicans were rapists, though some might be good people.
    He was referring to illegal immigration from Mexico, and clearly meant that among them were criminals and rapists, which is true. Whilst he phrased it badly, it was obvious he wasn't actually saying "Mexicans are criminals/rapists". Weak argument.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Farm_Ecology)
    No, I wouldn't. There is a good chance they would be extremist (as with a member of a racist organization being racist), but there are reasons why someone might be associated with the organization but not be. While these cases might be rare, I think that is enough to hold off making assumptions until I know more about the individual.Why is it ridiculous? Plenty of people are members of organizations that they might not necessarily agree with. I would prefer to know more about the individual before just making assumptions about them. While it might seem extreme, I would prefer not throwing around accusations before knowing more
    You're confusing Muslims and Islam. Your views to define you, the views of those you associate with don't. Willing associating with them, or refusing to condemn them, does mean you share their views.
    There we go.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by balanced)
    Just to correct you on some of your things here. This topic is on racism, which, surprisingly enough, concerns race.

    Just to remind you, Jews are not a race, nor are Mexicans.
    Thats already been covered in thread.

    But fine, when you specifically focus on race there are less examples. But I feel like saying things like that gets trump off on a technicality. He's definitely xenophobic and bigoted, with suggestions towards racism.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by OMG TOOTHBRUSH)
    Serious question. Does anyone have any specific examples of him being racist they can give? I bet the answer is no.

    Here's a first hand account of one of his rallies from a black American:

    https://www.facebook.com/Tatumbug34/...8608861209475/
    Discriminating against a specific religion. Can you imagine a bizzare situation at the usa border, a guard asking what religion you are, then if you are muslim not being allowed in. Within the context of the vast majority of muslims not being terrorists. But I like Trump, someone is finally doing something about the Islam problem, and we need a final solution.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by A$aprocky)
    There we go.
    There we go what?
    (Original post by A$aprocky)
    Do you have any proof? You're talking very vaguely, just give up mate.
    Do you really need evidence that people can be forced or pressured into organizations they don't agree with? Or that they may be ignorant as to the intentions of said organizations? The band Prussian Blue spring to mind, as do the Hitler Youth, not to mention the many people being forced to work for ISIS.

    Its simple, I prefer to judge someones views on what those views are, not what I assume those views are.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    This has already been covered in the thread, but here we go again.

    (Original post by sunni money)
    Did these lawsuits succeed, and since when was there a quota for having to rent houses to certain ethnic groups?
    He settled the case. And then changed operating practices. There isn't a quota, but he (or his company) lied to potential black clients saying there was no availability when there really was. There were also different financial requirements that had to be met for black people.

    "As I stated at the press conference on Friday regarding David Duke- I disavow"

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...rc=twsrc%5Etfw
    In the press conference, you can tell that he really doesn't care. He's saying it because he knows he has to. He didn't believe it in the slightest.

    This needs context, and sounds bad, but doesn't make him racist.
    Two men beat up a homeless Latino man, broke his nose and urinated on him in Trumps name. He responded by saying that he doesn't condone violence, but that we need that energy and passion. This was pretty positive in favor of the attackers, I don't see how almost supporting them isn't racist.

    This is true, and was really stupid of him.
    How is this racist?
    Maybe its not racist, but he's made up a story to incite hatred against a religion. He doesn't limit his hatred to guilty Muslims, in an interview he said that he wanted to bomb the families of terrorists. He actually suggested a war crime on TV. You can argue that Islam is a religion not a race, but when most of its followers are minorities in the US I'd say that it walks a line.

    He also said "the Persians are great negotiators". Neither of these statements are racist.
    Racist, maybe not. But I think it shows his consistent stereotyping which could well have led to racism if he does in fact hold low opinions of certain ethnic groups.


    He was referring to illegal immigration from Mexico, and clearly meant that among them were criminals and rapists, which is true. Whilst he phrased it badly, it was obvious he wasn't actually saying "Mexicans are criminals/rapists". Weak argument.
    Fine, directly maybe this isn't racist. But its definitely an appeal to xenophobia to try and win votes.

    I'm not really bothered if he actually is racist or just appealing to racism to win votes, I think that when you can have this much discussion about it the best case scenario is that he just doesn't care about it. Which isn't the kind of person I would want in any position of power.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Farm_Ecology)
    There we go what?

    Do you really need evidence that people can be forced or pressured into organizations they don't agree with? Or that they may be ignorant as to the intentions of said organizations? The band Prussian Blue spring to mind, as do the Hitler Youth, not to mention the many people being forced to work for ISIS.

    Its simple, I prefer to judge someones views on what those views are, not what I assume those views are.
    1) proof that you did say there are 'plenty of people'.

    2) If you're gonna say there are a considerable number of people that are forced into such groups, im gonna need proof. Dont make assumptions based on fascist groups that exist in the past. Hitler youth - They werent forced, they agreed with the fascist views. ISIS - Whilst they are forced to work for them, doesnt mean they are part of ISIS. Only those who agree with the radical views 'join' ISIS

    3) Yes, you can judge someones views perfectly well with the groups they are associated with. Nothing wrong or false with that. A KKK member is obviously a racist etc etc.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by balanced)
    Please, "Race, as a social construct, is a group of people who share similar and distinct physical characteristics.".

    Muslims are not a race. So therefore, it is impossible to be racist to Muslims in particular.
    You can be a bigot towards a religious group, which he is. I didn't call him a racist with regards to his views towards Muslims. What makes him a likely racist is his derogatory views about Mexicans, the way he refuses to denounce his KKK supporters and the way he insisted that Obama was not born in America, attempting to prove his claim was true. Could you see him doing the same with a White president?
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by dean01234)
    He settled the case. And then changed operating practices. There isn't a quota, but he (or his company) lied to potential black clients saying there was no availability when there really was. There were also different financial requirements that had to be met for black people.
    Businesses often discriminate against different groups of consumers (e.g. male/female at clubs).


    The onus is on you to prove that he did so in a way that made it racist - a good step would be to substantiate some of your assertions.

    In the press conference, you can tell that he really doesn't care. He's saying it because he knows he has to. He didn't believe it in the slightest.
    He has literally said he "disavow[s]" David Duke. If you do not believe him that is your problem, but him saying that directly refutes your claim that he refused to do so.

    Two men beat up a homeless Latino man, broke his nose and urinated on him in Trumps name. He responded by saying that he doesn't condone violence, but that we need that energy and passion. This was pretty positive in favor of the attackers, I don't see how almost supporting them isn't racist.
    Source? And even by your admission he said he doesn't condone violence. Conflating beating a homeless man with "energy" is disgusting, I agree, but hardly sufficient grounds to say he's racist.

    Maybe its not racist
    Progress.

    Racist, maybe not.
    More progress.

    Fine, directly maybe this isn't racist.
    We are on a roll!

    Which isn't the kind of person I would want in any position of power.
    No one said you have to support his campaign. But if you are going to make such a strong accusation you have to be able to give concrete proof to support it, which we have established you have not done.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by sunni money)

    Progress.

    More progress.

    We are on a roll!
    I'm going to come back to the rest of what you said later. For now I just want to point out that you ignored the part where he suggested the mass murder of civilians because it was aimed at people of a certain religion and not a race. But you go ahead and keep defending him.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by dean01234)
    For now I just want to point out that you ignored the part where he suggested the mass murder of civilians because it was aimed at people of a certain religion and not a race.
    Well your assertion was that he is racist, and that may be evidence of his bigotry or hatred of a religion, but is irrelevant with regards to substantiating your assertion (which I am disputing).
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by sunni money)
    Well your assertion was that he is racist, and that may be evidence of his bigotry or hatred of a religion, but is irrelevant with regards to substantiating your assertion (which I am disputing).
    If you read my posts, I don't actually claim he is racist. I've consistently maintained that he may just be appealing to racism if he isn't racist himself. Also I don't see how it is irrelevant, if someone is that xenophobic and that hateful its makes racism very believable.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by dean01234)
    If you read my posts, I don't actually claim he is racist. I've consistently maintained that he may just be appealing to racism if he isn't racist himself. Also I don't see how it is irrelevant, if someone is that xenophobic and that hateful its makes racism very believable.
    Your original post was to answer the thread title asking why people think he is racist, and you did this by citing examples that you believe justifiably lead people to believe he is racist.


    I do not deny that some of those things may cause people to believe he is racist, but that doesn't mean he actually is.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by sunni money)
    Your original post was to answer the thread title asking why people think he is racist, and you did this by citing examples that you believe justifiably lead people to believe he is racist.


    I do not deny that some of those things may cause people to believe he is racist, but that doesn't mean he actually is.
    Thank you for acknowledging that my post was answering the posed question.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by dean01234)
    Thank you for acknowledging that my post was answering the posed question.
    And thank for subsequently conceding that many of the points you raised do not show that he is a racist.
    Spoiler:
    Show

    Maybe its not racist
    Racist, maybe not.
    Fine, directly maybe this isn't racist.
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Brussels sprouts
    Useful resources
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.