Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Everglow)
    Perhaps not, but there's certainly something Islamist about this one.



    This was true then, and it's true now.
    I do not oppose free speech, it is vital for the the most interesting and challenging debates and agree that is should not be the reason for war or violence.
    I don't however always agree with Salman Rushdie where religious scripture is ridiculed. I have to say "satanic verses" was not ever a favorite but certainly tact is the knack of making a point without making an enemy.

    Peace and love

    NK
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by NickLCFC)
    It's amusing that you are just ignoring evidence presented right before your eyes. You need to be more open minded. Especially when you're willing to go as far as defending people's favourable opinions of ISIS.

    As for apparently telling you 'we should blame all Muslims for the problem'... when did I imply anything along those lines? I was simply putting across the fact that extremist beliefs among Muslims aren't as rare as you were making out.
    Yes, because that's not evidence. It's a survey which shows that a very small percentage Muslims have favourable views towards ISIS.

    They are not the terrorists, they are merely people in various countries across the world who like them. That does not make them terrorists, furthermore whether or not that article claims that however many million people are in favour of ISIS, 1.5 billion - that number DON'T support ISIS.

    We cannot attack 1.5 billion Muslims because a bunch of them go on a terror attack.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by QE2)
    Using this recent survey
    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...dain-for-isis/

    And using only Pakistan, Senegal, Malaysia, Nigeria and Turkey, the figures show that in those countries alone, about 50 million people have a "favourable opinion" of ISIS.

    QED
    If this is the case then why is everyone tripping over themselves to denounce Islamic State.

    What I mean is, we are told repeatedly that the majority are moderates. Spokesmen/women from Muslim communities are forever on television saying "it's wrong, but". It seems insincere for the most part granted, and a platitude so that they might go on to spout that; the real victims are in fact them as they incur sceptical second glances by people afraid for their safety.

    Guess I answered my own question.

    A better question, are you positing that most Muslims are (for all intents and purposes) our enemies.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    Nope, it does not guarantee they have extremist views. The only thing you can infer from this is that their opinion of ISIS is not negative, and I don't blame them given that the USA has caused many problems in the Middle East.

    And there is a massive margin of error, I can't see how many people were actually interviewed by this poll.
    peaceful Muslims should recognise, for their own good, that while jihadis may be misguided "cousins", they are still very much part of the Islamic "family picture"

    and as long as they don't take action themselves, by isolating extremists, this is not going to get any better
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mariachi)
    peaceful Muslims should recognise, for their own good, that while jihadis may be misguided "cousins", they are still very much part of the Islamic "family picture"

    and as long as they don't take action themselves, by isolating extremists, this is not going to get any better
    Yes Muslims should denounce them more strongly, but at the same time people should stop blaming 1.5 billion people for the actions of less than 1,500.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    less than 1,500.
    Made up number
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    Yes, because that's not evidence. It's a survey which shows that a very small percentage Muslims have favourable views towards ISIS.

    They are not the terrorists, they are merely people in various countries across the world who like them. That does not make them terrorists, furthermore whether or not that article claims that however many million people are in favour of ISIS, 1.5 billion - that number DON'T support ISIS.

    We cannot attack 1.5 billion Muslims because a bunch of them go on a terror attack.
    It is evidence. I'd say it shows a small percentage but an alarming number of people that have a favourable views towards ISIS. Once again, I'm not trying to argue they are terrorists themselves. To have a favourable view of ISIS you either are a supporter or you hold some of the same extremist beliefs.

    Please stop repeating yourself, I have never attacked each and every single Muslim because of a few terrorists. However, it is clear there is a problem that needs to be addressed when such a large number of extremist Muslims hold favourable views towards ISIS. Because regardless of whatever BS excuse you come up with, people who have a favourable view of ISIS are extremists in my eyes.
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Drewski)
    It doesn't matter whether we call them that, the point is they call themselves that. They believe they are acting according to some plan. They believe they're right to do so.

    Arguing about whether they're really Muslims or not is entirely pointless.

    We can and will call them cold blooded murderers, but they believe they're justified.

    Until that belief in whatever form is eradicated then these kinds of attacks will continue.
    Hello there,

    I completely agree with what your saying. I'm arguing that it is condemned in Islam. The way to stop tyranny in the name of Islam is by teaching the true fundamentals of an ancient religion. Eradication does not truly occur through war, social cleansing or hatred, it happens through education and understanding.
    You might find it pointless arguing about if the terrorists were proper Muslims, but as a Muslim I always feel the need to try to justify why their acts and my religion don't coincide. You might find it stupid of me to do so but I just want to feel comfortable knowing that I have tried to make others understand that my religion is not about hatred and war. I hope you understand this and that one day we can eradicate this terrible notion.

    Peace and love

    NK
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by NickLCFC)
    It is evidence. I'd say it shows a small percentage but an alarming number of people that have a favourable views towards ISIS. Once again, I'm not trying to argue they are terrorists themselves. To have a favourable view of ISIS you either are a supporter or you hold some of the same extremist beliefs.

    Please stop repeating yourself, I have never attacked each and every single Muslim because of a few terrorists. However, it is clear there is a problem that needs to be addressed when such a large number of extremist Muslims hold favourable views towards ISIS.
    This line is rubbish. You can have favourable views of ISIS without being one of those two things.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    Made up number
    It's roughly the number of Islamic extremists who have attacked the west in terror attacks.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    This line is rubbish. You can have favourable views of ISIS without being one of those two things.
    As I said, whatever BS excuses you come up with, people who have favourable views of ISIS are extremists in my opinion (and probably most other people's opinions).
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    Yes Muslims should denounce them more strongly, but at the same time people should stop blaming 1.5 billion people for the actions of less than 1,500.
    you started out claiming that less than 0.1% of Muslims qualified as extremists (i.e. something like 1.5 million people or so). Now, you are down to 1,500. As anyone can notice, your present claim is now exactly 1/1000th of your original claim

    What justifies this huge shift in your estimations ?
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    It's roughly the number of Islamic extremists who have attacked the west in terror attacks.
    except you have been given facts from a reliable source. Just because you don't understand the mechanism of collecting or interpreting them does not make the 'made up'
    Offline

    5
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    Yeah it really doesn't.
    Be more specific please?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by NickLCFC)
    It is evidence. I'd say it shows a small percentage but an alarming number of people that have a favourable views towards ISIS. Once again, I'm not trying to argue they are terrorists themselves. To have a favourable view of ISIS you either are a supporter or you hold some of the same extremist beliefs.

    Please stop repeating yourself, I have never attacked each and every single Muslim because of a few terrorists. However, it is clear there is a problem that needs to be addressed when such a large number of extremist Muslims hold favourable views towards ISIS.
    Hi there,

    Can you get this evidence up from a reliable source because I'm part of many societies, clubs and charities here in the UK and am friends with many muslims. Whenever I ask for their true views on ISIS they don't sound very "favourable" about it quite the opposite actually. Have you asked any muslims of their views mate? Don't spur hate saying that an "alarming number" of muslims share or support terrorism. I don't think anyone in their right mind wants to support rapists, torturers, or brutal murderers, I know that I can't even watch stuff like that on TV never mind encourage it in real-life.
    Peace and love always

    NK
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    It gives me goosebumps thinking about what happened. We are just recently getting over Paris and now these two incidents.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mariachi)
    you started out claiming that less than 0.1% of Muslims qualified as extremists (i.e. something like 1.5 million people or so). Now, you are down to 1,500. As anyone can notice, your present claim is now exactly 1/1000th of your original claim

    What justifies this huge shift in your estimations ?
    I didn't say that 1,500 were extremists.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    except you have been given facts from a reliable source. Just because you don't understand the mechanism of collecting or interpreting them does not make the 'made up'
    No, I counted the number of foreign terrorist perpetrators in Islamic attacks against the west since 9/11 on wikipedia
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    No, I counted the number of foreign terrorist perpetrators in Islamic attacks against the west since 9/11 on wikipedia
    so short sighted of you.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Drewski)
    It doesn't matter whether we call them that, the point is they call themselves that. They believe they are acting according to some plan. They believe they're right to do so.

    Arguing about whether they're really Muslims or not is entirely pointless.

    We can and will call them cold blooded murderers, but they believe they're justified.

    Until that belief in whatever form is eradicated then these kinds of attacks will continue.
    The issue is that enough young Muslims believe their version of Islamic interpretation to be accurate to form a hardcore cadre of ruthless holy warriors and suicide bombers. There's evidently enough in the teachings to make it at least possible to the average western Muslim for consideration, either because what the Jihadis espouse seems to fit scripture or because it actually does in places.

    As with many western conflicts in the past, much of it swings on the interpretation of what is a justified holy war. Since the days that the Muslim Brotherhood and the Salafists began denouncing the west for occupying the holy places (as they interpreted the US presence in Saudi and the Israeli occupation of Jerusalem) and calling it justification for Jihad, Muslims have effectively had to make up their minds if they agree. This is very similar to past calls for holy wars in the Christian west, right up to and including relatively recent ones.

    There's a difference in viciousness, but we should also remember that the Christian holy wars of the past were not exactly gentle or gentlemanly.

    The real issue here is one of propaganda and scriptural interpretation and the extent to which a religious motive removes all normal barriers to civilised behaviour once an enemy has been denounced successfully as satanic or against our religion.

    The people doing these things are understandable human beings who might be reachable with counter-propaganda, if done skilfully, or better still, with accurate alternative interpretation from religious leaders. The latter is splendidly lacking in many Muslim communities and territories. Up till now, the Salafists have had it all their own way in many areas.

    When we add this to the profound feelings of injustice and inequality many young Muslims feel in the west (and Arab lands), particularly in some countries, where they are more marginalised (France, Belgium and others), there is a powder keg of disengaged Muslim youth with easy access to aggressive Salafist propaganda. The results are plain to see.

    As well as destroying IS in the field and attempting to stop terror outrages, there should be a much smarter programme of engagement with Muslims of a more liberal, modern or moderate disposition. In addition, radical Salafists should be tackled on a much wider scale. They should be routinely denied entry. Countries controlled by them, like Saudi Arabia, should be marginalised and excluded from the world community of nations until they modernise their countries and remove them from the theocratic control of unelected Imams and the petro-rulers who find it convenient to keep things that way whilst spreading terror to us. It should be clear to everyone that what they preach and are is utterly unacceptable to us.
 
 
 
Poll
Do you agree with the PM's proposal to cut tuition fees for some courses?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.