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    (Original post by NK18444)
    Did Hitlers acts have anything to do with Catholicism?
    His hatred of the Jews certainly came from the historic attitude that Catholicism had towards Jews, who they saw as killers as Christ. He probably would not have sent those he saw as non-Catholic degenerates to concentration camps if he wasn't inspired by such thought. He certainly saw Christ as his inspiration too.

    (Original post by NK18444)
    Did Myra Hindley and Ian Brady's acts have anything to do with Christianity?
    These inhumane idiots have a warped perception of religion. Terrorism is not Islamic or Christian.

    Peace and love

    NK
    "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". - Quran (3:151)

    "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" - Quran (8:12)

    Peace and love? I don't think so.
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    Repose en paix
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    (Original post by QE2)
    Nobody (reasonable) is blaming all Muslims for the actions of the extremists (tens of thousands of them BTW).
    However, they are expected to take a realistic approach to the influence that Islamic ideology has on them. Simply saying "They are not Muslims" and "It has nothing to do with Islam" makes it appear as thought they are simply denying reality and avoiding a difficult issue.

    The problem is, when people have been brought up on a sanitised version of Islam that is not supported by the actual content of the Quran and sunnah, they find it difficult to accept the truth. That all the nasty stuff is in there along with the nice stuff that was cherry-picked for them. So they will execute (pardon the pun) all sorts of aplolgetic gymnastics and intellectual chicanery in order to distance themselves from their unacceptable relatives.

    However, they steadfastly refuse to take the one step that would actually make a difference, to reject the passages that can be used to justify the killing, oppression and discrimination.
    The person who I quoted in the first place, before everyone came in to throw their two cents in, was attacking Islam as a whole.

    And yes it does originate from radical extremist Islam, but given that these extremists make up a tiny fraction of all Muslims, I was arguing that it is unfair to discriminate against all Muslims because of this. Muslims need to do more to condemn this sort of stuff, but they don't deserve to be attacked relentlessly because of it.
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    (Original post by Feel Tha Bern)
    What you fail to understand is that there is no one ''Islam'', it's a collection of broad ideas based on the Qur'an and Hadiths.
    Of course, I understand that... but that was not the point I made. I said that you dismissed her arguments because she said that she is Catholic, and they said that they are Muslims. That's a flawed reason to reject one's arguments.


    (Original post by Feel Tha Bern)
    Some Muslims think that Allah wishes for Muslims to be loving and tolerant, some Muslims believe Allah wants the Ummah to eliminate all non-Muslims, it's problematic though because unlike Christianity which is based on the teachings of a rebellious pacifist Jewish hippy, Islam is based on a 7th century warrior king.
    Some Old Testament stuff is pretty contradictory but I digress... that is besides the point.
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    Actions really needs to be taken soon. RIP
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    (Original post by Reformed)
    if you are just looking '1.5 million ISIS members' thats fair enough - you are being rather simplistic however in forgetting
    the Pew research stating approx 68 million supporting IS .

    and thats just talking about IS, what about the hundred or so other islamic terrorist organisations all over the place? that figure could jump to the hundreds of millions.

    and then you have ppl that dont support specific islamic groups , but support the idea of jihad, caliphate, war on the the west/non muslims in general. the number swells even more. the underlying current under all of these is the islamist doctrine that when mixed in with political propagnda is possibly supported than more than half the islamic population of the the world. when that is the case, then extemeists terrorists can operate within their midsts without fear of being stopped.
    Pew research doesn't conclude that 68 million support ISIS. It concludes that 68 million think favourably of them.

    It is possible to think favourably of something but not support them.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    Have you not realised?
    The whole problem is because people believe in a load of centuries-old woo so much that they are prepared to kill people for it.

    Yes, Christianity may have outgrown its violent adolescance, but it still engenders a feeling of "us and them", and condemns billions to an eternity of torment. That's not very inclusive, is it?
    All I can say back is that the God of my faith isn't recognisable in these events and Christianity is growing.

    Jesus condemns violence.
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    (Original post by Onde)
    The first pillar of Islam is "There is no god but God (and) Muhammad is the messenger of God."

    Allah in the quran (the book Muhammad had written) condoned and carried out genocide and terrorism, and Muhammad in reality carried out both.

    If all Muslims ascribe to this central tenet, then surely it is straightforward to label Islam a terrorist group like any other?
    Well hardly any of them do.
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    As many have said before, if it is an Islamic terror attack then how is this exactly surprising? We have already told you nothing is going to destroy isis except by neutralising it from its core.

    Anyway I hope everyone is in a better place in Brussels now.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by mariachi)
    completely wrong

    someone who has a favourable view of ISIS is an ISIS supporter, of course (if words mean anything) , and an extremist to boot

    he is not likely to report "fellow Muslims" preparing an attack, would he ? this makes him responsible for his omission. A crime, according to our legislation

    how is it possible not to call him an "extremist" ? who are extremists anyway, in your view ?
    Say "completely wrong" again like its a fact.

    Come on, use your brain. You don't have to be a supporter of something to think favourably of it. Plain and simple.
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    (Original post by NK18444)
    I completely agree with what your saying. I'm arguing that it is condemned in Islam.
    Killing those who oppose your ideology is not condemned in Islam. It is prescribed. 5:32-33 is fairly clear about it, and tafsir such as Ibn Kathir remove any ambiguity, with use of the hadith.

    You might find it pointless arguing about if the terrorists were proper Muslims, but as a Muslim I always feel the need to try to justify why their acts and my religion don't coincide. You might find it stupid of me to do so but I just want to feel comfortable knowing that I have tried to make others understand that my religion is not about hatred and war.
    The problem here is that you are assuming that because you follow a particular version of Islam, that it is the only one.

    Unfortunately, it is not. However much we all want every Muslim to follow the sanitised, cherry-picked version that you do, it is painfully clear that others favour an unmodernised version that cherry-picks a different set of verses and hadith. It is not enough to simply accuse them of being "Not True Muslims", because they are saying the same thing about you. And they are prepered to go further to impose their views. Views that you are unwittingly legitimising by insisting that your interpretation is the only true one.
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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    The fact that ISIS are anti-west, particularly the USA, who in the eyes of many people in the Middle East, have destroyed their country.Their opposition to Assad.
    you can support anti assad groups that have nothing to do with assad. in fact IS are committing very few forces to direct conflict with him compared to Syrian National Coalition for example. can you asnwer my other question pls -
    you stated earlier you were atheist. what is your view on the islamic doctrine that these people are exposed to
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    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    Yes they do.
    Well then you are doing ISIL's dirty work for them. I've said it already many times, ISIS want the west to reject Muslims.

    You are playing right into their hands by saying that.
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    (Original post by chemting)
    Of course, I understand that... but that was not the point I made. I said that you dismissed her arguments because she said that she is Catholic, and they said that they are Muslims. That's a flawed reason to reject one's arguments.
    I'm able to accept that violent Jihadis are Muslim, whilst also accepting that peaceful Muslims who have pet cats and are generally kind and loving are also Muslims, there is no inconsistency.



    (Original post by chemting)
    Some Old Testament stuff is pretty contradictory but I digress... that is besides the point.
    When it comes to Christianity, they generally believe that it has been superseded by the co called ''New Covenant''
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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    No, you're incorrect.

    Surveys show that a tiny amount (but not a negligible amount) of Muslims have favourable views with regard to ISIS.

    This does NOT mean that they have the same views, it does not mean they are ISIS supporters, it does not mean they are extremists.

    It just means that when ISIS is mentioned, they think favourably of them. That could be for a variety of reasons, and not plainly that they have the same views as ISIS.

    For example, I think favourably of Jeremy Corbyn, even though there are many things I disagree on. My reasoning for thinking favourably of him is because he is consistent and if I were to vote for him, I would know what to expect. But that does not mean I share the same views, nor does it mean I am ultra left-wing.
    *HOW* many times do I have to tell you that Pew produced a cumulative case with many different questions in multiple surveys?!

    You were told to go and look, all you did was return with something which you thought you could spin for support.

    Again - surveys have shown that many muslims share the same views as ISIS on things like apostacy and terrorism, among others.

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    (Original post by Reformed)
    what is there in Islamic State to think favourablly about ? unless you support them, id suggest nothing

    you stated earlier you were atheist. what is your view on the islamic doctrine that these people are exposed to
    The fact that ISIS are anti-west, particularly the USA, who in the eyes of many people in the Middle East, have destroyed their country.

    Their opposition to Assad.
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    RIP. It's clear that anytime there's a terrorist attack like this, TSR goes into meltdown or starts with the uselss comments ("hurr durr religion of piss?"). My thoughts go to everybody in Belgium right now who have lost people and also to those in Brussels who are in lockdown, seperated in schools, offices etc. My thoughts also go to the victim of the third terrorist attack in Turkey in the past few weeks. Hatred like these attacks split families apart, split groups of people apart and destroy the fabric of the human race.
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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    Well then you are doing ISIL's dirty work for them. I've said it already many times, ISIS want the west to reject Muslims.

    You are playing right into their hands by saying that.
    If they aren't doing enough or anything to stop this from within, and if they choose to continue to follow their chosen religion, then they may get criticism for it. Tough tits if they don't like it.
    I see you're still appeasing the terrorists then.
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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    No, you're incorrect.

    Surveys show that a tiny amount (but not a negligible amount) of Muslims have favourable views with regard to ISIS.

    This does NOT mean that they have the same views, it does not mean they are ISIS supporters, it does not mean they are extremists.

    It just means that when ISIS is mentioned, they think favourably of them. That could be for a variety of reasons, and not plainly that they have the same views as ISIS.

    For example, I think favourably of Jeremy Corbyn, even though there are many things I disagree on. My reasoning for thinking favourably of him is because he is consistent and if I were to vote for him, I would know what to expect. But that does not mean I share the same views, nor does it mean I am ultra left-wing.
    Muhammad reputedly said they'd be 73 sects of Islam, with only one correct one. It is perfectly possible for all 73 sects to condone terrorism while each sect being opposed to all the others.

    I believe you are sum up the polling correct though. It seems support amongst Muslims for terrorist actions (or sympathy for them) is stronger outside the West, especially in places of strife like the Palestinian territories. (I think poverty and its associated ills have a large part to do with this).
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    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    If they aren't doing enough or anything to stop this from within, and if they choose to continue to follow their chosen religion, then they may get criticism for it. Tough tits if they don't like it.
    I see you're still appeasing the terrorists then.
    They are doing stuff, they are dying in the Middle East fighting against ISIS. Or did you just neglect that?
 
 
 
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