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    (Original post by chemting)
    How would you go about "beefing up" security?
    How would you go about "monitoring Islamic communities"?

    I'm not attacking you, I'm just asking whether you have any specific policies and measures that you feel should/could be taken?

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    if i spent some time thinking about it, im sure i could come up with quite a few as part fo an overall strategy -some im sure could be accussed of being a biit shady - but they would yield results. but then im not paid to do that so wont get too in depth. suffice to say though it involves a much wider 'infitration program' in said communities so that whats going on islamic centres and mosques is known (ie who is doing the basic recruiting, espousing the politcally driven islamic doctrine) and then tabbing those that sniff. it involves a lot more plants and undercovers both in the communities and online.
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    The draconian measures taken by the French Government after the Charlie Hebdo attacks failed spectacularly to prevent the Paris attacks in November 2015.


    It is worrying just how easily people are ready to throw away their hard-won civil liberties in the hope that it would lead to better security but demonstrable examples clearly show that not to be the case.
    Agreed. It's easy to put words together that sounds good but it leads to policies that give too much power to the government and potentially threatening in the long run.

    With regards to my original question, where do you think Belgium (and Europeans in general) go from here?



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    (Original post by Reformed)
    if i spent some time thinking about it, im sure i could come up with quite a few as part fo an overall strategy -some im sure could be accussed of being a biit shady - but they would yield results.
    I can't comment on whether they'd yeild results without seeing the strategies.

    (Original post by Reformed)
    but then im not paid to do that so wont get too in depth. suffice to say though it involves a much wider 'infitration program' in said communities so that whats going on islamic centres and mosques is known (ie who is doing the basic recruiting, espousing the politcally driven islamic doctrine) and then tabbing those that sniff. it involves a lot more plants and undercovers both in the communities and online.
    You kinda need "trusted" members in the community to do that. Its hard to "infiltrate" to an Islamic centre being white. But I guess there must make a start somewhere.

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    (Original post by Reformed)
    being out of the EU would not have protected from these men, they were north african who merged themselves in to belgians islamic community
    The argument would be that being in the EU, those people could have easily travelled to the UK and attacked.
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    (Original post by chemting)
    Agreed. It's easy to put words together that sounds good but it leads to policies that give too much power to the government and potentially threatening in the long run.
    Western governments have consistently given up emergency powers when the emergency has passed. In World War 2 the government had the power to intern anyone without a trial, there were mandatory ID cards, conscription among other things. These powers were given up and by the 1950s they had been repealed

    In the 1970s there was a major problem with Irish republican terrorism, legislation was enacted giving the government greater powers to help tackle the threat. As the threat declined in the 1990s, the government gave up these powers again.

    There is a consistent history in this country (and in France) that governments give up emergency powers when they are no longer needed. The conspiracy theorists are simply wrong when they claim that it's like a one-way ratchet that never goes back to the way it was, and that this is part of some conspiracy by the elites to oppress us. That's simply not how things work
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    With the exception of Mossad and perhaps the BND, French intelligence is the next best security agency.
    dont be ridiculous
    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)

    5 out of the 7 attackers were French nationals and all of them were registered as terror suspects.
    not all of them lived in paris anymore, in fact i beleive two lived in belgium and this is where the attack was planned and supplied,so regardless of french incapability it was belgiums authorities failure to unearth not the french's.

    where the french failed is to lose track of two of their flagged nationals anaged to go and comeback to syria. this jsut shows you frances ineptitude so you must be high or a teenager in comparing them with the worlds best intelligence services


    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    As much as I would like to carry on a discussion, I can not if you keep on making false statements which I have to correct and resorting to conjecture to make an argument.

    If you want to have a serious discussion, then let's have one but I'm not of a mood to correct your false statements/opinions and when called out upon it, go around swinging from tree to tree.
    your points of bringin up paris have just been rendered redundant, seeing as the paris attack was formulated in belgium not france, so it was not within frances jurisdiction. make some relevant comment then we can have a discussion.
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    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    The argument would be that being in the EU, those people could have easily travelled to the UK and attacked.
    how would they get the guns through customs? its the channel that protects us, not EU laws
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    (Original post by Reformed)
    how would they get the guns through customs? its the channel that protects us, not EU laws
    Guns can still be purchased in the UK, they will have contacts here.
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    (Original post by chemting)
    I can't comment on whether they'd yeild results without seeing the strategies.



    You kinda need "trusted" members in the community to do that. Its hard to "infiltrate" to an Islamic centre being white. But I guess there must make a start somewhere.

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    not really, most of these guys arrived into belgium from elswhere, got recruited etc - thats pretty standard

    there are plenty of brown and black employees of the intelligence services. all they have to be is convincing , learn some arabic and research the quran. half the muslims on TSR dont even have that level of qualification
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    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    Guns can still be purchased in the UK, they will have contacts here.
    not automatic weapons, which are readily available in eruope mainlnd
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    With the exception of Mossad and perhaps the BND, French intelligence is the next best security agency.

    It's contacts and networks in it's own former colonies is second to none.
    This is true (in fact, DGSE is probably the superior of BND). More recently France has been allowed some access to Echelon material and also I'd imagine that whatever organisation took over from the Alliance Base set-up will probably be providing substantial support to the investigation

    Credit where it is due, they seem to be very good at clocking on to who is involved in these attacks fairly quickly. To start a manhunt you need to know who was actually involved, the French did that after both the Hebdo and Bataclan attacks. This time, the Belgian police raided an ISIS safe house that was probably involved in this attack very shortly after it occurred

    I am confident that they know what they're doing, and that the Belgians will not allow their own Covenant of Security to continue. Time to crack down on the Islamist infestation in Molenbeek
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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    Your anti-Muslim views are consistent with strong isolationism and nationalism - which is right-wing.
    I haven't displayed anti-Muslim views. I have however displayed anti-Islam views. There is a difference, and if you ask nicely I may spell it out for you.
    And no, my views are not right wing.
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    I believe the French, a couple months prior to the attack, were warned by Iraq and another Middle Eastern State that there was going to be an imminent attack.
    Which is pretty much useless given they can't actually do anything with that information unless they known when, where and who, and given they receive such warnings all the time

    Why are you going on about jurisdiction? Do you not know about Europol and the fact that all of the attackers were on the terror list?
    Again, the fact they were on the list of known radicals means nothing. There are thousands of people on that list, and they don't have the resources to watch everyone.

    These facts clearly don't mean what you think they mean. Conspiracy theories are almost always ********
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    (Original post by Reformed)
    not automatic weapons, which are readily available in eruope mainlnd
    Considering the damage today was done with bombs, your point doesn't really apply.
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    (Original post by BeastOfSyracuse)
    Western governments have consistently given up emergency powers when the emergency has passed. In World War 2 the government had the power to intern anyone without a trial, there were mandatory ID cards, conscription among other things. These powers were given up and by the 1950s they had been repealed

    In the 1970s there was a major problem with Irish republican terrorism, legislation was enacted giving the government greater powers to help tackle the threat. As the threat declined in the 1990s, the government gave up these powers again.

    There is a consistent history in this country (and in France) that governments give up emergency powers when they are no longer needed. The conspiracy theorists are simply wrong when they claim that it's like a one-way ratchet that never goes back to the way it was, and that this is part of some conspiracy by the elites to oppress us. That's simply not how things work
    It might be different this time. It might be used to criminalise the FN and ensure a 'Republican' victory.
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    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    I haven't displayed anti-Muslim views. I have however displayed anti-Islam views. There is a difference, and if you ask nicely I may spell it out for you.
    And no, my views are not right wing.
    You're criticising Islam, and therefore implicitly criticising Muslims.

    And your anti-Muslim rhetoric is isolationist and nationalist which is consistent with right-wing policies, just as it was before you threw me that BS about how you're 'anti-Islam' but not 'anti-Muslim'. You said several times that 1.5 billion Muslims are responsible for the tiny fraction who are committing terrorist attacks.
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    I find it amazing with all the high tech security and surveillance present in these countries that such attacks even took place. What was it adolf hitler said: tell a lie, keep telling the lie, the lie becomes the truth
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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    You're criticising Islam, and therefore implicitly criticising Muslims.

    And your anti-Muslim rhetoric is isolationist and nationalist which is consistent with right-wing policies, just as it was before you threw me that BS about how you're 'anti-Islam' but not 'anti-Muslim'. You said several times that 1.5 billion Muslims are responsible for the tiny fraction who are committing terrorist attacks.
    Preach!

    So refreshing to see wisdom fighting back the ignorance, tolerance beating back hatred!

    Peace <3
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    (Original post by iceberger)
    I find it amazing with all the high tech security and surveillance present in these countries that such attacks even took place. What was it adolf hitler said: tell a lie, keep telling the lie, the lie becomes the truth
    Anything Hitler said is wrong. Do you not know who Hitler is? Without doubt, he was the most evil person in history.
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    Could you give us a ranking of Intelligence agencies please?



    I believe the French, a couple months prior to the attack, were warned by Iraq and another Middle Eastern State that there was going to be an imminent attack.
    iraq? they warned the day before without any specific details as to perpetrators or locations. perhaps you should read the articles instead of jsut reading the google headline

    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)

    Why are you going on about jurisdiction? Do you not know about Europol and the fact that all of the attackers were on the terror list? Do you not realise that the attacks took place in France which is a failure of the French intelligence agency, even though they had been given sweeping powers after the Charlie Hebdo attack?
    half of them were also on frances list as i jsut told you - there are hundreds of french nationals on the terror list einstein - this means nothing unless you have been surveilling them for weeks and have intel on what they are planning and where. they co ordinated eveything in belgium and hence the french were kept int he dark

    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    I suggest you familiarize yourself with the Paris attacks, the nationalities involved and the fact that the attacks occurred despite a range of new powers being granted to the intelligence agencies that was intended to thwart such attacks.
    and you need to get your head around the fact that they were not planned in france but in BELGIUM
 
 
 
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