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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    Your attitudes towards Islam are right-wing, that doesn't mean you are right-wing, you can be left-wing with majorly left-wing views and some right-wing views and vice-versa. I'm not calling you right-wing.

    Right-wing tenets consists of isolationism and nationalism.

    Rejecting Islam, a foreign culture, is expressive of those two tenets..
    This is entirely wrong

    rejecting Islam means that we dislike Islam's political and social programme; also, that we don't consider that it embodies any sort of revealed "truth"

    in particular, we dislike Islam's mainstream positions on relations between religion and State, between men and women, Muslims and non-Muslims

    we dislike Islam's mainstream positions on homosexuals, apostates, physical punishments, shariah law in general

    how could this possibly be constructed as being right-wing ?

    since when does being left-wing imply that you would e.g. approve of having adulterers stoned ?

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    This thread is still being driven by the smart ass? The one that saw significant percentage of muslims agree with suicide bombing and favouring ISIS and performed gymnastics to say that extremist muslims are less than 1%?

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    (Original post by Slipandsquirm)
    This thread is still being driven by the smart ass? The one that saw significant percentage of muslims agree with suicide bombing and favouring ISIS and performed gymnastics to say that extremist muslims are less than 1%?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    All I saw was a survey in which some Muslims were asked how they viewed ISIS, and also whether suicide bombing is justified in the defence of Islam.

    Both of which showed that the vast majority of Muslims are decent people, and of the small amount that do think ISIS is good are not saying that they would join ISIS or commit a suicide attack.

    Find me a survey which says that millions of Muslims worldwide would willingly join ISIS or commit a suicide attack and I will change my mind. You can have a view without taking action on it.
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    Stop being mean to Frank! omg

    Frank Underwood its okay, just ignore these nasty trolls
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    (Original post by Slipandsquirm)
    This thread is still being driven by the smart ass? The one that saw significant percentage of muslims agree with suicide bombing and favouring ISIS and performed gymnastics to say that extremist muslims are less than 1%?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Yep

    He's also the one who claims ISIS aren't that much of a threat
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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    Y

    Rejecting Islam, a foreign culture,
    Islam is a faith not a culture

    But given you don't know what 'right wing' means I'm not surprised by this error
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    (Original post by Multiculturalism)
    Stop being mean to Frank! omg

    Frank Underwood its okay, just ignore these nasty trolls
    Thief is crying "Stop thief!".
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    (Original post by Multiculturalism)
    Stop being mean to Frank! omg

    Frank Underwood its okay, just ignore these nasty trolls
    Frank is trying to defend indefensible positions

    in particular, he would like to have us non-Muslims decide on which is the "correct" interpretation of Islam (which of course we cannot do). In the process, he is randomly accusing people of supporting ISIS, of being right-wing nationalists, idiots and other unpleasant definitions etc etc

    I'm afraid that if there is someone here trolling, he should rather look at a mirror rather than at us.

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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    All I saw was a survey in which some Muslims were asked how they viewed ISIS, and also whether suicide bombing is justified in the defence of Islam.

    Both of which showed that the vast majority of Muslims are decent people, and of the small amount that do think ISIS is good are not saying that they would join ISIS or commit a suicide attack..
    no one disputes the fact that a majority of Muslims does not support ISIS, and that yes, a majority of Muslims is also composed of normal, decent people

    however, would someone who finds that ISIS is "good" report suspicious activities by "fellow Muslims" which could lead to ISIS attacks ? very unlikely. And this is a crucial point, if we want to eliminate terrorism
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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    All I saw was a survey in which some Muslims were asked how they viewed ISIS, and also whether suicide bombing is justified in the defence of Islam.

    Both of which showed that the vast majority of Muslims are decent people, and of the small amount that do think ISIS is good are not saying that they would join ISIS or commit a suicide attack.

    Find me a survey which says that millions of Muslims worldwide would willingly join ISIS or commit a suicide attack and I will change my mind. You can have a view without taking action on it.
    You have a nack for not addressing points.

    Do more than 1% of muslims hold extremist views?

    (I'm not that a quarter of Egyptians can be called a small amount)

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    (Original post by Slipandsquirm)
    You have a nack for not addressing points.

    Do more than 1% of muslims hold extremist views?

    (I'm not that a quarter of Egyptians can be called a small amount)

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Nope, all I see is a survey of an unknown number of people suggesting that more than 1% of Muslims hold ONE extremist view subject to unspecified conditions - which has been extrapolated to fit a larger population.

    I want to know how many people were actually surveyed.
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    (Original post by Lady Comstock)
    So to clarify: it is implicitly criticising believers when you criticise the religion as a whole, but not when you criticise specific things? That seems like an arbitrary distinction to be honest.
    Criticising one specific thing is far less likely to be offensive to Muslims than criticising Islam as a whole, which amounts essentially to criticising everything that Islam is.
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    (Original post by mariachi)
    Hi Planta

    I have been trying to explain this to Frank in umpteen posts : it is not up to us non-Muslims to decide which interpretation of Islam is correct, and which is not

    Muslims have been discussing this for 1400 years, and will most likely take another 1400 years (at least) before reaching any firm decision

    this does not mean that we are supporting ISIS : quite to the contrary, we most decidedly oppose it

    but this simple point seems to be too difficult to understand

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    You know interpretation :ahee::ahee::ahee:


    Redirect yourself to Muhammads last sermon where he eloquently simplifies the principles of war for you.
    There isn't anything to interpret here.
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    I think many people here are forgetting that lies can be built on statistics.


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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    Your attitudes towards Islam are right-wing, that doesn't mean you are right-wing, you can be left-wing with majorly left-wing views and some right-wing views and vice-versa. I'm not calling you right-wing.

    Right-wing tenets consists of isolationism and nationalism.

    Rejecting Islam, a foreign culture, is expressive of those two tenets.


    Don't get confused here, I'm not saying you're right-wing, but your views on Islam are right wing.
    It's not automatically right wing to criticise a religion though. Or it's text, or even it's followers. There are centre and left wing atheists who do it. I count myself amongst them.
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    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    It's not automatically right wing to criticise a religion though. Or it's text, or even it's followers. There are centre and left wing atheists who do it. I count myself amongst them.
    You're rejecting Muslim culture and the Islamic faith, telling us that it is "incompatible with western culture".

    That is right-wing, in every sense of the definition.

    From wikipedia:

    "The phrase far right, by contrast, is used to describe those who favor an absolutist government, which uses the power of the state to support the dominant ethnic group or religion and often to criminalize other ethnic groups or religions."

    You are supporting the dominant ethnic groups and religions by criticising Islam - that would label you as 'far right' in this specific, sole regard. So if this is considered 'far right', you are certainly within the right-spectrum by being so critical and skeptical of Islam.

    How many times can you deny the same thing in 24 hours, I wonder?
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    (Original post by missfats)
    You know interpretation :ahee::ahee::ahee:


    Redirect yourself to Muhammads last sermon where he eloquently simplifies the principles of war for you.
    There isn't anything to interpret here.
    Posted from TSR Mobile
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farewell_Sermon

    "various versions of the Sermon have been published"...


    by the way, Ibn Ishaq's version of the sermon seems to be the most comprehensive one (more comprehensive than Muslim, Abu Dawud etc), but I know that many Muslims don't particularly appreciate Ibn Ishaq... also, this quote reported by him would seem a bit dodgy ("Treat women well, for they are [like] domestic animals (‘awānin) with you and do not possess anything for themselves"). But there are two different translations for this passage...

    Al-Jahiz's version seems also quite comprehensive (but wasn't he a dangerous Mutazili ? )

    problems, problems...

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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    you are certainly within the right-spectrum by being so critical and skeptical of Islam.
    being critical and skeptical of Islam is "right wing" ?

    you always learn something new

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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    You are supporting the dominant ethnic groups and religions by criticising Islam
    want to watch us criticising Christianity ?

    you only have to ask...
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    It's very strange how the two suicide bombers had criminal pasts.



    Islamic State always present this view of themselves as pious religious warriors, but every member we have learned about, these suicide bombers, Jihadi John are not pious scholars or intelligent people who had great prospects in life, but losers, people who are socially alienated who know in their heart they have no way to succeed in mainstream society.
 
 
 
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