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Just 8% of people think Osborne would be a good PM Watch

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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Dunno. I think I mean they just copy the Tories and try to win from their ground. So they agree and enforce the idea that Labour spent too much which caused 2008 financial crisis. Are pro the austerity narrative. Would rather labour wasn't tied to unions and reject that labour should represent any kind of collective solidarity of the working and middle classes. They are left neoliberals. I don't blame people from adopting those kinds of positions for trying to win power, but it's hard to tell who is what.
    Yeah it. Scones an amorphous blob or blairites, Cameroons and orange bookers.

    Still prefer to the loony right wing .

    I'm not really talking about foreign policy which bizarrely I'm becoming more sympathetic towards .
    It's not bizarre. What's bizarre is that you have a very abstract, quite reactionary position in which states are sovereign to do whatever they want (genocide etc) and that preventing this from happening is in the eyes of some people vulgar imperialism.

    The internationalist position which I support believes that there are some crimes which warrant intervention. Isis being the prime example.
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    (Original post by Davij038)



    It's not bizarre. What's bizarre is that you have a very abstract, quite reactionary position in which states are sovereign to do whatever they want (genocide etc) and that preventing this from happening is in the eyes of some people vulgar imperialism.

    The internationalist position which I support believes that there are some crimes which warrant intervention. Isis being the prime example.
    Already been over this. My views on internationalism and nationalism are basically that of the Wobblies . How that is reactionary is beyond me. :indiff: I also post lots of post complaining about Russia, Saudi Arabie, Israel etc.

    Imperialism can overlap with stopping genocide.

    Yeah these "centre ground" guys are ok on stuff like letting gays get married and sexual freedom and so on.

    Also I meant bizarre in the sense that I appear to dislike Blair's domestic policy and his third way neoliberlaism more rather than his foreign policy. It's normally the other way round. People say if it wasn't for Irag he would be remembered as a hero.
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    Osborne is still better than the others - Borris, May, etc.

    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Already been over this. My views on internationalism and nationalism are basically that of the Wobblies . How that is reactionary is beyond me. :indiff:

    Imperialism can overlap with stopping genocide.
    Interesting - any examples?
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)


    Interesting - any examples?
    Irag?

    America didn't just go in for the goodness of its heart.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/redbox/top...d-be-a-good-pm

    This is pretty damning. Bear in mind Ed Miliband had 20% and that was deemed very low. In addition, two thirds of Tory voters said they didn't think he would be a good PM.

    Surely his chances of becoming PM are diminishing.
    Well duuuh.
    He's a knob. What do you expect?
    He's economically illiterate and looks like an idiot.
    (heeyy - that rhymes )

    Although if he becomes PM more people will turn to Corbyn :eek:
    Sounds good to me!
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    Well duuuh.
    He's a knob. What do you expect?
    He's economically illiterate and looks
    Although if he becomes PM more people will turn to Corbyn :eek:
    Sounds good to me!
    Boris Johnson is the most popular politician on the UK and has a very favourable media presence. this is despite being an absolute scumbag. He would wipe the floor against most opposition leaders let alone Corbyn. Labour really needs to shape up of they are going against Boris who for all his bluff and acting like a muppet makes Cameron look principled and honest in comparison.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Boris Johnson is the most popular politician on the UK and has a very favourable media presence. this is despite being an absolute scumbag. He would wipe the floor against most opposition leaders let alone Corbyn. Labour really needs to shape up of they are going against Boris who for all his bluff and acting like a muppet makes Cameron look principled and honest in comparison.
    The Labour Party should've collapsed long ago in the 80s. It's been corrupted by right-wing Blairites and now that the left-wingers have come back into power and they're having to pussyfoot around them
    Either a split or collapse is the only way for the left wing in Britain.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Already been over this. My views on internationalism and nationalism are basically that of the Wobblies . How that is reactionary is beyond me. :indiff:
    Having the wobbles isn't a coherent political outlook so I can't really comment on that.

    What I believe to be reactionary is the idea put forward by libertarians, liberals, traditional Tories and people like Galloway and Corbyn is that basically people from other countries should be left to do their own thing and we should tolerate and respect that. This sovereignty trumps all human rights because it is thought to be chosen by the majority of the people. Minorities can suck it. Countries under the control of totalitarian dictators are going to have suck it up too.

    This goes against the four freedoms established by Roosevelt in the founding documents of the UDHR and is this essentially exposes a form of primitivism in that people can do whatever they want so long as they do it in their own country. To me Hunan Rights are Universal not customary.

    I also post lots of post complaining about Russia, Saudi Arabie, Israel etc.
    Should the UK and U.S. have declared war on both the USSR and Nazi Germany? Clearly, states should work towards eliminating greater threats first. North Korea is far, far worse than Iran for example.

    That said I agree that sometimes 'good' states can get too friendly with 'bad' states. This is quite complicated as sometimes it can work e.g Timisia but sometimes it can fail e.g Turkey and SA. It's all about finding the right balance.

    Imperialism can overlap with stopping genocide.
    I don't agree with your US example at all. The US failures in Iraq were down to simple incompetence and compromises between neocons and 'realists' . At no point was Iraq to become a province of the USA. On any case, I would say that genocide is far, far worse than imperialism.


    Yeah these "centre ground" guys are ok on stuff like letting gays get married and sexual freedom and so on.

    Also I meant bizarre in the sense that I appear to dislike Blair's domestic policy and his third way neoliberlaism more rather than his foreign policy. It's normally the other way round. People say if it wasn't for Irag he would be remembered as a hero.
    Don't think I believe that. PFI and Immmigration were too controversial.
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    (Original post by Davij038)

    Don't think I believe that. PFI and Immmigration were too controversial.
    So I'm lying? That's my perception. So you don;t believe that is my perception? I'll give you immigration but stuff like PFI I thought only private eye reading lefties even new about.

    Wobblies give enough of an inclination of some kind of proletarian internationalism to show that I don't think we should just leave countries alone to say commit genocide within their borders. I find it unacceptable how we collectively exploit the Chinese working class. It's the same internationalism that means I support the socialist kurds in the middle east.

    I brought up my criticising of other states to show I don't think we should just respect countries to do what they like within their own borders.
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    The Labour Party should've collapsed long ago in the 80s. It's been corrupted by right-wing Blairites and now that the left-wingers have come back into power and they're having to pussyfoot around them
    Either a split or collapse is the only way for the left wing in Britain.
    I agree to an extent and it's why we need PR. The neoliberal Right should probably go, but so too should the regressive left elements that Captain Corbyn is the acceptable face of.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    So I'm lying?
    Eh? Calm down mate.

    You were saying lots of people think he'd be a hero if it wasn't for Iraq, I'm saying I think that they are probably wrong, though he probably would be far less controversial that's for sure!
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Eh? Calm down mate.

    You were saying lots of people think he'd be a hero if it wasn't for Iraq, I'm saying I think that they are probably wrong, though he probably would be far less controversial that's for sure!
    I am calm

    I didn't understand how you couldn't believe my perception. I edited in more stuff.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    I am calm

    I didn't understand how you couldn't believe my perception. I edited in more stuff.
    Well you're good then😛
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Well you're good then😛
    I swear I'm on the autistic spectrum sometimes :indiff:
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    I agree to an extent and it's why we need PR. The neoliberal Right should probably go, but so too should the regressive left elements that Captain Corbyn is the acceptable face of.
    I agree we do need PR, but I'm not sure what the 'regressive left elements' Corbyn represents. The left wing needs to make a comeback into English politics for the good of the future.
    In fairness, none of the left wing see Corbyn as the 'acceptable' face of their movements, nor suitable, but for some he's what's available.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    I swear I'm on the autistic spectrum sometimes :indiff:
    Wouldn't surprise me. This is the internet. Also I seem to draw autistic people to me, despite not being autistic. It's a gift.
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    I agree we do need PR, but I'm not sure what the 'regressive left elements' Corbyn represents. The left wing needs to make a comeback into English politics for the good of the future.
    In fairness, none of the left wing see Corbyn as the 'acceptable' face of their movements, nor suitable, but for some he's what's available.
    I do get your last point.

    My point is there is nothing really progressive about Corbyn his mind is stuck in the 1970s and the world has changed drastically.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    I do get your last point.

    My point is there is nothing really progressive about Corbyn his mind is stuck in the 1970s and the world has changed drastically.
    Mmm
    Not really.
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    The only decent PM we've had in the past 20 years is blair who needs to return to power, he would thrash the tories.
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    Mmm
    Not really.
    Can you tell me something new and progressive he's outlined?
 
 
 
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