Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    In the light of the recent terrorist attacks in Brussels, i thought I would share a few reflections on which could be the terrorists' main objectives

    In the short term (this is a bit of a truism) terrorists aim to terrorise : to force people into changing their lifestyle, into renouncing part of what constitutes (in their eyes) our decadent habits, like going out, partying ; organising free discussions and debates, freely criticising prophets and religions, etc etc

    but the longer-term objective are Western Muslim communities. Terrorists want to cause a backlash against Muslims in the West. They hope that, faced with hostility by the population, and perhaps by restrictive measures by Governments, Muslims will feel progressively estranged and marginalized from the wider Western European societies

    This is in fact the only hope, for extremist movements, to avoid isolation : if they somehow manage to exacerbate contrasts and hostilities in our societies, to focus populations' resentment against Muslims, they may manage to somehow increase sympathies, by presenting themselves as the only defense of "true believers" against the "kuffar"

    For this reason, IMHO it is essential that we stand without hesitation behind the principle of non-discrimination. There is no such thing in our societies as "collective guilt". Any Muslim, just like any other citizen, is strictly responsible for his/her actions only

    Let us make no unnecessary gifts to the terrorists by presenting them with some (even vague) justification for their crimes. We have our own values, and for this reason we consider our societies to be the best thing going (as far as societies go).

    Let us not supply any shadow of an argument to terrorists.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mariachi)
    In the light of the recent terrorist attacks in Brussels, i thought I would share a few reflections on which could be the main terrorists' objectives

    In the short term (this is a bit of a truism) terrorists aim to terrorise : to force people into changing their lifestyle, into renouncing part of what constitutes (in their eyes) our decadent habits, like going out, partying ; organising free discussions and debates, freely criticising prophets and religions, etc etc

    but the longer-term objective are Western Muslim communities. Terrorists want to cause a backlash against Muslims in the West. They hope that, faced with hostility by the population, and perhaps by restrictive measures by Governments, Muslims will feel progressively estranged and marginalized from the wider Western European societies

    This is in fact the only hope, for extremist movements, to avoid isolation : if they somehow manage to exacerbate contrasts and hostilities in our societies, to focus populations' resentment against Muslims, they may manage to somehow increase sympathies, by presenting themselves as the only defense of "true believers" against the "kuffar"

    For this reason, IMHO it is essential that we stand without hesitation behind the principle of non-discrimination. There is no such thing in our societies as "collective guilt". Any Muslim, just like any other citizen, is strictly responsible for his/her actions only

    Let us make no unnecessary gifts to the terrorists by presenting them with some (even vague) justification for their crimes. We have our own values, and for this reason we consider our societies to be the best thing going (as far as societies go).

    Let us not supply any shadow of an argument to terrorists.
    Isis has a simple malevolent idea; they just want to inflict the Sharia Laws worldwide, they will be simply oblivious of the people that they hurt (kill) due to it
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mariachi)
    but the longer-term objective are Western Muslim communities. Terrorists want to cause a backlash against Muslims in the West. They hope that, faced with hostility by the population, and perhaps by restrictive measures by Governments, Muslims will feel progressively estranged and marginalized from the wider Western European societies
    I see this being said a lot, but I've seen nothing to suggest it.

    It rings similar to conspiracy theories, with ISIS being portrayed as secular puppet masters.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Boss_Rhythm)
    Isis has a simple malevolent idea; they just want to inflict the Sharia Laws worldwide, they will be simply oblivious of the people that they hurt (kill) due to it
    while ISIS may shout shariah ! shariah ! at every street corner they know very well that prospects for imposing shariah in Western countries (apart from some marginal procedures like voluntary arbitration etc) stand next to zero

    their objective can not be therefore, in the short term, "shariah4theUK" or "shariah4Belgium"

    they also know that Western Governments will not back down with regard to Syria/Middle East, just because of the attacks (at least in the short term)

    as far as the longer term is concerned, ISIS (like many other more "orthodox" Muslims) think in terms of an apocalyptic scenario : Gog and Magog, the final battle between Jesus and the Dajjal, Islam and Kufr etc etc

    however, their objective is to bring this final confrontation forward, by achieving, with whatever means, and as soon as possible, a global war between "good" and "evil" (i.e. the believers and the kuffar), while most Muslims are not at all eager to rush in that direction, and do not subscribe to this apocalyptic vision as an agenda for the near future

    best
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mariachi)
    while ISIS may shout shariah ! shariah ! at every street corner they know very well that prospects for imposing shariah in Western countries (apart from some marginal procedures like voluntary arbitration etc) stand next to zero

    their objective can not be therefore, in the short term, "shariah4theUK" or "shariah4Belgium"

    they also know that Western Governments will not back down with regard to Syria/Middle East, just because of the attacks (at least in the short term)

    as far as the longer term is concerned, ISIS (like many other more "orthodox" Muslims) think in terms of an apocalyptic scenario : Gog and Magog, the final battle between Jesus and the Dajjal, Islam and Kufr etc etc

    however, their objective is to bring this final confrontation forward, by achieving, with whatever means, and as soon as possible, a global war between "good" and "evil" (i.e. the believers and the kuffar), while most Muslims are not at all eager to rush in that direction, and do not subscribe to this apocalyptic vision as an agenda for the near future

    best
    Yet they argue that they are khalifa and are doing this for allah! Ignorant pieces of s***, acting like they are muslim but in fact are liers! Frikin hell mate!
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Farm_Ecology)
    I see this being said a lot, but I've seen nothing to suggest it.

    It rings similar to conspiracy theories, with ISIS being portrayed as secular puppet masters.
    ISIS has a deeply "religious" programme. It wants to bring forward the end-times, the final confrontation between good and evil. In fact, their glossy magazine (Dabiq) is named after the town in Syria where the final confrontation between good and evil (Muslims and Crusaders) is supposed to take place

    However, how do you manage to launch this indispensable all-out war between good and evil ? it's the same strategy followed by Al-Qaida : you provoke the West into responding

    since there have been no Western troops sent to Syria until now, the next best thing is to wreak havoc in the land of the "Crusaders" : and, if possible, to push Muslim communities in the West towards radicalisation, so as to further disrupt Western countries : a blind reaction against Muslims living in the "West" would play exactly in this direction

    this is not really a conspiracy theory : in my view, it is the only half-way "reasonable" strategy that the Caliphate could try to pursue

    best
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    I agree with your theory. It seems logical that they have a long term goal that requires isolating Muslim communities from Western society. Members of these isolated pockets will then feel more inclined to turn to a more radical interpretation of their religion as they will think that this is the only way to protect themselves, their people, and their belief.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Legendary Quest)
    I agree with your theory. It seems logical that they have a long term goal that requires isolating Muslim communities from Western society. Members of these isolated pockets will then feel more inclined to turn to a more radical interpretation of their religion as they will think that this is the only way to protect themselves, their people, and their belief.
    Plenty of Muslims isolate themselves thru their cultural practices and religious beliefs long before any ISIS related backlash has an influence.
    A fully covered, veiled Muslim woman is a good example of this.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    Islam is a broken ideology.
    You have the ones in the East who are radical and expansionist, and you have the ones in the West who still follow the fundamentals, but believe in free will and the right to liberty. I'm sure that there's many in the East who want to come West, and perhaps there's even some in the West who want to go East.
    I don't believe ISIS can isolate the Western Muslims, simply because many of them came West to get away from the radical side of their religion. I can't speak for all of them, but it tells you something when many are trying to come West to get away from it all.
    Sure, there's people who are looking at the individuals, but there's also people like me who blame the ideology instead. It's very mixed, but I don't think ISIS can't win this way. So far no country or politician (yes, even Trump) has advocated for the deportation of Muslims. We've only seen tighter border controls and more police around on the streets. The people who are potentially aiding ISIS are the ones who call for political correctness and play the 'racism card'.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    I blocked this guy but terrorist want nothing different from what our governments want and that is mass hysteria and destruction.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    We need to stop talking about terrorists as though they all share the same goal. They do not, while they always consistently terrorise in order to promote the goal everyone has their own individual reasons. Some people join due to isolation, hatred, others due to starvation and kidnapping, indoctrination and hundreds of other reasons. The sooner we learn that most terrorists can be dealt with by addressing needs and cutting the head of the snakes: the most brutal leaders of the movements who spread propaganda and prey on the others, the sooner we can prevent terrorism.

    Terrorism is hard work, time to jail those educated enough to do it.
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    All I want to say is that these terror groups have nothing do with my religion Islam. And I'll keep saying this because it's the truth

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mariachi)
    In the light of the recent terrorist attacks in Brussels, i thought I would share a few reflections on which could be the terrorists' main objectives

    In the short term (this is a bit of a truism) terrorists aim to terrorise : to force people into changing their lifestyle, into renouncing part of what constitutes (in their eyes) our decadent habits, like going out, partying ; organising free discussions and debates, freely criticising prophets and religions, etc etc

    but the longer-term objective are Western Muslim communities. Terrorists want to cause a backlash against Muslims in the West. They hope that, faced with hostility by the population, and perhaps by restrictive measures by Governments, Muslims will feel progressively estranged and marginalized from the wider Western European societies

    This is in fact the only hope, for extremist movements, to avoid isolation : if they somehow manage to exacerbate contrasts and hostilities in our societies, to focus populations' resentment against Muslims, they may manage to somehow increase sympathies, by presenting themselves as the only defense of "true believers" against the "kuffar"

    For this reason, IMHO it is essential that we stand without hesitation behind the principle of non-discrimination. There is no such thing in our societies as "collective guilt". Any Muslim, just like any other citizen, is strictly responsible for his/her actions only

    Let us make no unnecessary gifts to the terrorists by presenting them with some (even vague) justification for their crimes. We have our own values, and for this reason we consider our societies to be the best thing going (as far as societies go).

    Let us not supply any shadow of an argument to terrorists.
    tbh i think you are over analysing. islamic terrorists just want noteriety. they want people talking about islam, because it makes them feel important and imagine islam is a major political movement. when of course it is not and has little legitimate importance beyond its influence on international terrorism. at the end of the day islam has always been about territory and power - all islamist groups IS included want the levantine areas and israeli held territory to be seizied by islamic armies as it was psot mohammeds time.
    i also feel many of these groups still hold resentment that the 'west' defeated the islamic empire and created its own, and perhaps this is simply sour grapes jabs
    Offline

    8
    ReputationRep:
    Islamic terrorists want to threaten or attack western secularists values. Islamic communities are already isolated by their own design without the terrorists help. Average muslims are not the terrorists, but average muslims make up the communities that harbor the terrorists. When a nation embraces immigrants/refugees from another nation in the spirit of compassion, the prevailing culture deserves a measure of compliance. Absolutely zero concession has been made by typical muslim immigrants/refugees. Indignation from offended citizens is warranted. They have two options available be to them.

    1. Capitulate and appease the offending entities.
    2. Condemn and confront the offending entities.

    We must consider which actions will be effective, and which actions are warranted. The two are not necessarily one in the same, and both have merit.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    They want what most people want.Or need.

    Spoiler:
    Show
    To make a difference.
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    Those terrorists want to change American empires & the rest of the world to Islamic empires or Islamic caliphates.

    Human history never changes. It just repeats itself.

    Attachment 514901

    Name:  1458707702633.jpg
Views: 111
Size:  37.4 KB

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    Simple

    They want citizenship in Western countries and what we have that's why they are coming in swarms

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SHBKhan)
    All I want to say is that these terror groups have nothing do with my religion Islam. And I'll keep saying this because it's the truth

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Don't tell us... tell them.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mariachi)
    : and, if possible, to push Muslim communities in the West towards radicalisation, so as to further disrupt Western countries : a blind reaction against Muslims living in the "West" would play exactly in this direction
    This is the thing I find dubious. Yes, they want Muslims to become more radicalized, but the idea that they hope to build up anti-Muslim sentiment to accomplish this aim seems very unlikely. It is most likely a happy accident, but the idea that it is their goal, let alone their primary goal, is absolutely ridiculous.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Reformed)
    tbh i think you are over analysing.
    I am not saying that all terrorists consciously aim in this direction. Nor that the aims I indicated are the only objectives. However, in my view we should not neglect them
    (Original post by Reformed)
    the islamic terrorists just want noteriety. they want people talking about islam, because it makes them feel important and imagine islam is a major political movement.
    this is true. It strikes me that several Brussels jihadis actually had already criminal records for drug trafficking, theft, minor crimes and misdemeanours - they already were some sort of rebels to social order - "rebels without a cause" who now have finally found a cause
    (Original post by Reformed)
    when of course it is not and has little legitimate importance beyond its influence on international terrorism. at the end of the day islam has always been about territory and power -
    which, in my view, makes it a political movement. The fact that European Islam has not managed to organise itself politically should not cloud the fact that Islam is the main political force in Middle East, North Africa etc. Don't forget that, almost everywhere, the "Arab Spring" was eventually dominated by Islamists, the Ikhwan (Muslim Brotherhood) in particular
    (Original post by Reformed)
    all islamist groups IS included want the levantine areas and israeli held territory to be seizied by islamic armies as it was psot mohammeds time.
    i also feel many of these groups still hold resentment that the 'west' defeated the islamic empire and created its own, and perhaps this is simply sour grapes jabs
    I think that ISIS aims at its own apocalyptic scenario, mainly based on end-of-times ahadith. This includes a final confrontation with the "Crusaders", Gog and Magog, the Armageddon etc. This is the final perspective.

    In order to achieve this, however, they have to wreak havoc among "Jews and Crusaders", just like Osama, Zawahiri etc wanted. I don't think that they would be happy within their own Caliphate : according to ahadith, they have to conquer Rome, re-conquer Constantinople, defeat the Sufyani, the Dajjal and so on and so forth

    Best
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    What's your favourite Christmas sweets?
    Useful resources
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.