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    (Original post by Oilfreak1)
    reporting an innocent person could then lead to them feeling betrayed by the state/their community and push them into the arms of extreme clerics leading them on the path to actually become radicalized.
    But the responsibility has passed from community to the state once they are alerted to and these are the key words here

    Look into them


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    (Original post by Sequin Rugby)
    That is precisely the problem. Multiculturalism is no culture.
    Quite it's a dilution of one culture to suit those who have played no part in creating it
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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    immigrants fought in WW1 alongside us
    and they fought for their own reasons and their own countries.

    this does not negate what I have said.
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    (Original post by paul514)
    But the responsibility has passed from community to the state once they are alerted to and these are the key words here

    Look into them


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    In an ideal world this would be perfect. My friend who is the furthest thing from an Islamic extremist was flagged by neighbors. (This is about 4-5 years ago it would be even worse now).

    The result? He was incarcerated for 2 weeks with his Passport confiscated (he only got it back last year).

    In addition to this he was tagged and unable to attend college for around 2 months, in the end no formal charges were pressed against him he was just "being looked into" (they still haven't returned his old phone 5 years on).

    He failed his A-levels (unsurprisingly) as a result and while the reset of our social group are doing our masters in September or have started grad schemes he is only now completing the second year of his degree.

    In an ideal world authorities would just look into it, but we don't live in an ideal world. If local law enforcement made clear events like the ones I described above would not be the result of simply flagging someone as a potential radical then maybe communities would be more willing to report odd behavior. We're far far away from being able to categorically say flagging an innocent wont exacerbate the situation.
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    Kicking muslims out isn't actually impossible and should never be left off the table. I firmly believe that muslims wont last long in the west anyway, a lot of cherrypickers about...
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    I like how Western countries are the only places who get TOLD and infact bullied into who they can and cannot allow into their countries.



    I wonder why people never complain about the fact that Non muslims can't migrate to Mecca in Saudi Arabia.


    Oh that's right, because the West is the best and most tolerant place to be.
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    (Original post by Sequin Rugby)
    Indeed, my own mother is a nurse and is moving to work in the US this year because of the state of the NHS. About time the Tories just privatised it.
    Semi-privatization would be better in my opinion. As it is though around a quarter of taxes goes to funding nhs
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    (Original post by Judas69)
    I hope so. dont think it will never happen. Hatred for muslims is growing
    With a name like Judas you should be careful what you wish for.
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    (Original post by Oilfreak1)
    In an ideal world this would be perfect. My friend who is the furthest thing from an Islamic extremist was flagged by neighbors. (This is about 4-5 years ago it would be even worse now).

    The result? He was incarcerated for 2 weeks with his Passport confiscated (he only got it back last year).

    In addition to this he was tagged and unable to attend college for around 2 months, in the end no formal charges were pressed against him he was just "being looked into" (they still haven't returned his old phone 5 years on).

    He failed his A-levels (unsurprisingly) as a result and while the reset of our social group are doing our masters in September or have started grad schemes he is only now completing the second year of his degree.

    In an ideal world authorities would just look into it, but we don't live in an ideal world. If local law enforcement made clear events like the ones I described above would not be the result of simply flagging someone as a potential radical then maybe communities would be more willing to report odd behavior. We're far far away from being able to categorically say flagging an innocent wont exacerbate the situation.
    Let's get the community to flag no one and let them kill people then


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    (Original post by paul514)
    Let's get the community to flag no one and let them kill people then


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    or let's get the community to flag innocents have them alienated from society at large and kill people anyway?

    We need more transparency from local law enforcement agencies towards local communities before they'll considering flagging and potentially radicalizing an innocent teen.
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    (Original post by Oilfreak1)
    or let's get the community to flag innocents have them alienated from society at large and kill people anyway?

    We need more transparency from local law enforcement agencies towards local communities before they'll considering flagging and potentially radicalizing an innocent teen.
    Is your friend now a terrorist?

    How do you expect the security services to look into people if they are not reported?

    You may have an issue with how they deal with suspects but that is a completely separate issue.


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    (Original post by paul514)
    Is your friend now a terrorist?

    How do you expect the security services to look into people if they are not reported?

    You may have an issue with how they deal with suspects but that is a completely separate issue.


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    No, he was incredibly moderate but is now more pious than me in religion.

    I know of individuals in the area who joined Daesh 3 years after apprehension or began partaking in muslim sharia patrols after being targeted, this is all anecdotal though.

    It's not a completely separate issue if the way they treat suspects creates a greater rift between the muslim communities and authorities it makes the problem worse not better. As the system stands now reporting someone who you suspect because of what? a beard? youtube videos? his religiosity? Will likely promote radicalization especially if they were just areligious troubled teens.

    I support flagging even innocents, if the authorities can take a step back and literally justlook into it.
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    (Original post by Oilfreak1)
    No, he was incredibly moderate but is now more pious than me in religion.

    I know of individuals in the area who joined Daesh 3 years after apprehension or began partaking in muslim sharia patrols after being targeted, this is all anecdotal though.

    It's not a completely separate issue if the way they treat suspects creates a greater rift between the muslim communities and authorities it makes the problem worse not better. As the system stands now reporting someone who you suspect because of what? a beard? youtube videos? his religiosity? Will likely promote radicalization especially if they were just areligious troubled teens.

    I support flagging even innocents, if the authorities can take a step back and literally justlook into it.
    If the community doesn't report then more attacks happen.

    I guarantee you the rest of the population won't put up with it after a few attacks in a year

    Nasty things will happen when not if that happens if the community doesn't change its attitude on reports


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    (Original post by paul514)
    If the community doesn't report then more attacks happen.

    I guarantee you the rest of the population won't put up with it after a few attacks in a year

    Nasty things will happen when not if that happens if the community doesn't change its attitude on reports


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    You speak as though it's easy to report someone. I have a beard, pray at the mosque regularly I would be considered a prime candidate for a potential radical despite loving this country and being third generation british muslims.

    So what are we going to do? Incarcerate everyone that has my traits while we're just "looking" into it? This will create evenmore attacks then we're currently facing (england's facing relatively little homegrown terrorism).

    It's ignorant to expect uncles, aunties and parents to report nephews, nieces, sons and daughters just because they're watching the merciful servant on youtube or are taking pride in their islamic heritage when they have no idea if this (most likely) innocent young person has any inclination towards offensive Jihad in the U.K.

    If the community knew without a doubt that the individuals actions would just be looked into then sure to hell with it, but as things stand with the current system of flagging the muslim wont and shouldn't be reporting someone just for expressing passion towards their religion.

    Believe it or not radicals don't come into the mosque and talk about how their gonna bomb :dolphin::dolphin::dolphin::dolphin:, often times radicals are the ones who are rarely at the mosque at all. If they are regulars they'll just salam you and leave any plotting will be done elsewhere, because they can't trust the muslims in the mosque, know why? Because we'd alert the authorities in a heart beat.
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    (Original post by Oilfreak1)
    You speak as though it's easy to report someone. I have a beard, pray at the mosque regularly I would be considered a prime candidate for a potential radical despite loving this country and being third generation british muslims.

    So what are we going to do? Incarcerate everyone that has my traits while we're just "looking" into it? This will create evenmore attacks then we're currently facing (england's facing relatively little homegrown terrorism).

    It's ignorant to expect uncles, aunties and parents to report nephews, nieces, sons and daughters just because they're watching the merciful servant on youtube or are taking pride in their islamic heritage when they have no idea if this (most likely) innocent young person has any inclination towards offensive Jihad in the U.K.

    If the community knew without a doubt that the individuals actions would just be looked into then sure to hell with it, but as things stand with the current system of flagging the muslim wont and shouldn't be reporting someone just for expressing passion towards their religion.

    Believe it or not radicals don't come into the mosque and talk about how their gonna bomb :dolphin::dolphin::dolphin::dolphin:, often times radicals are the ones who are rarely at the mosque at all. If they are regulars they'll just salam you and leave any plotting will be done elsewhere, because they can't trust the muslims in the mosque, know why? Because we'd alert the authorities in a heart beat.
    When 6% of Muslims say they wouldn't report someone they knew was planning an attack and 33% sympathise with the Charlie hebdo attackers alarm bells should ring.

    Conflating reporting someone with what the security services do with that person is stupid.

    When you report suspicious behaviour or views you devolve all responsibilities to the authorities.

    What they then do is nothing to do with you.

    They will deal with it how they see fit and contrary to your narrative on here they don't do what you said on mass as they actively watch 3000 people they simply don't have the time or man power for what you suggest

    If and its a big if it happened to your friend then the had evidence.


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    (Original post by PoorBastward)
    Kicking muslims out isn't actually impossible and should never be left off the table. I firmly believe that muslims wont last long in the west anyway, a lot of cherrypickers about...
    If we banned circumcision on children, many would leave.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    If we banned circumcision on children, many would leave.
    Or do it in secret like fgm


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    (Original post by paul514)
    When 6% of Muslims say they wouldn't report someone they knew was planning an attack and 33% sympathise with the Charlie hebdo attackers alarm bells should ring.

    Conflating reporting someone with what the security services do with that person is stupid.

    When you report suspicious behaviour or views you devolve all responsibilities to the authorities.

    What they then do is nothing to do with you.

    They will deal with it how they see fit and contrary to your narrative on here they don't do what you said on mass as they actively watch 3000 people they simply don't have the time or man power for what you suggest

    If and its a big if it happened to your friend then the had evidence.


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    It did happen to him and several other Muslims teens in the stratford area with 0 evidence, again though anecdotal don't really expect you to take it factually.

    It takes more resources to actually observe someone's behaviour and decide whether or not they are a threat than it does to incarcerate and eventually tag anyone you suspect.

    They can deal with it as they see fit, if we don't want our children subjected to this treatment we will report as we see fit, we'll deal with any backlash the spineless internet warriors threaten us with. This is not the lowest point the ummah has ever been in our ancestors were persecuted way more, even if britain and america revolted against the native Muslims (they won't, not even a trump led America, money has no religion) it wouldn't compare to the siege of Baghdad, so don't wave that around as a threat, we don't care we aren't handing our kids over for loving their religion.

    Again we'll report legitimate radicals but not someone who shows piety/passion towards their religion, and unless the former makes clear their intentions (they won't because they know they'd be reported) the two are almost impossible to tell apart.

    oh and here's a map of fgm weird how it's largely localised to Africa (Bar Yemen and Iraq) it's almost like it's a regional problem affecting both Muslim and christian nations.
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    (Original post by Oilfreak1)
    It did happen to him and several other Muslims teens in the stratford area with 0 evidence, again though anecdotal don't really expect you to take it factually.

    It takes more resources to actually observe someone's behaviour and decide whether or not they are a threat than it does to incarcerate and eventually tag anyone you suspect.

    They can deal with it as they see fit, if we don't want our children subjected to this treatment we will report as we see fit, we'll deal with any backlash the spineless internet warriors threaten us with. This is not the lowest point the ummah has ever been in our ancestors were persecuted way more, even if britain and america revolted against the native Muslims (they won't, not even a trump led America, money has no religion) it wouldn't compare to the siege of Baghdad, so don't wave that around as a threat, we don't care we aren't handing our kids over for loving their religion.

    Again we'll report legitimate radicals but not someone who shows piety/passion towards their religion, and unless the former makes clear their intentions (they won't because they know they'd be reported) the two are almost impossible to tell apart.

    oh and here's a map of fgm weird how it's largely localised to Africa (Bar Yemen and Iraq) it's almost like it's a regional problem affecting both Muslim and christian nations.
    There is loads of fgm in the uk, and if your community is willing to pay the price of NOT doing the right thing then fair enough enjoy your future.


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