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    Labels are whatever you make them to be.

    If a person chooses to label their sexual orientation as "pansexual," it isn't fake because that's their sexual orientation.

    New labels aren't a result of being a "special snowflake" so much as trying to find a box to fit yourself in as per society's request when the sexuality spectrum is so varied - "pansexuality," to my knowledge, was produced because people felt bisexuality only encompassed male and females ("bi" meaning two) and excluded those who didn't fit into the binary.

    However I have a friend who is bisexual despite being willing to be involved with people outside of the binary - she likes the label bisexual, so she uses that. I call myself queer (which can be controversial, depending on who you ask) but the closest label I could identify with is pansexual and, for me, that merely means gender doesn't really factor into my attraction to someone.

    (Original post by Bad Faith)
    Not sure what pansexuality has to do with mental illness...
    I was wondering where that connection came from myself, to be honest. :erm:
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    (Original post by Blondie987)
    Can I ask why?
    someone wanted to know what it meant
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    (Original post by thefatone)
    someone wanted to know what it meant
    Oh fair enough, thanks!
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    (Original post by Retired_Messiah)
    Gender variant means genderfluidity I presume? I'm still unsure how I really feel about that one.

    The fact that gender was initially conceived as a binary was 'cause it was effectively based on the physical differences between blokes and the womenz. Changing where you are on that binary is chill with me (although as I said, changing it on a near-weekly basis is one I'm unsure about), but once you start claiming you're something outside of it you're effectively identifying as something outside of biological possibility.

    Effectively, you're usually born with the sex of a male, female, or in rare cases something in-between. Some people feel "born in the wrong body" or whatever, decide they want to be something else, that fixes their issues, that's all fine. When you start claiming you don't want to be any of these things it just leads me to go "well wtf are you then" as in effect you're identifying as something that cannot really exist.

    When I've tried to get to the bottom of this for myself people have usually come up with something about gender roles, which are pretty irrelevant. I've yet to find any tangible argument for identifying as more or less none-human that makes any kind of sense.

    This, basically. People can be gender variant or gender fluid but that doesn't mean they are 'neither male, neither female' or outside gender lines. It means that they have bits of both genders, but nobody is outside the male-female genders, unless you believe that there are aliens walking among us.

    Which brings me to what I said earlier, that pansexuality is just another word for bisexuality. Bisexual people are attracted to both genders, therefore they can be attracted to anybody, regardless of that other person identifies as. For example, a bisexual girl sees a person at the mall. This person looks androgynous and the bisexual girl might perceive this person as a female or a male, or might not be sure what gender it is. Either way, she won't care because she is bisexual so whatever genital this person has doesn't matter to her. She can find this person attracive, even though this person has never told talked to her and told her that she is 'gender fluid' or whatever. You don't ask someone what their gender is before you become attracted to them.

    Being bisexual means you are attracted to both male and female, and everybody is either male or female or a mix of both. Therefore 'pansexuality' makes no sense as 'being attracted to all genders aside from male and female' . There are no bisexuals who aren't attracted to all genders, just like there aren't heterosexuals who aren't attracted to transgendered people who 'pass'. There are transgendered people, who have had surgeries done etc and you could NEVER tell they were ever the opposite sex and any straight guy could fall for one of those trans women without knowing they used to be male. Sure, if they find out that this person used to be a male, they might refuse to have a relationship with this person any further, but that's not because of a lack of attraction, it's because of their prejudices or negative feelings against trans people.


    What I am trying to say, is, bisexuality works the same: they are attracted to anyone regardless of gender and that attraction is not going to cange just because someone announces they are 'neither female or male'. They might just be prejudiced and refuse to date a trans/intersex/gender fluid etc person. Bisexuals like both vaginas and penises, and a gener varient person still has one of them and still has male/female qualities like anyone else, so it makes no sense that somehow bisexuals are not attracted to anyone who says they aren't male or female. It's complete ********. Pansexuality is a synonym for bisexuality. There isn't a separate group of people (aka pansexuals) who are attracted to people who identify as gender fluid, since gender fluid people are still somewhere on the male-female spectrum, regardless of how they identify, they cannot change biological realities.
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    I hope not considering I was in a relationship with a pansexual for over a year
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    (Original post by Retired_Messiah)
    Gender variant means genderfluidity I presume? I'm still unsure how I really feel about that one.

    The fact that gender was initially conceived as a binary was 'cause it was effectively based on the physical differences between blokes and the womenz. Changing where you are on that binary is chill with me (although as I said, changing it on a near-weekly basis is one I'm unsure about), but once you start claiming you're something outside of it you're effectively identifying as something outside of biological possibility.

    Effectively, you're usually born with the sex of a male, female, or in rare cases something in-between. Some people feel "born in the wrong body" or whatever, decide they want to be something else, that fixes their issues, that's all fine. When you start claiming you don't want to be any of these things it just leads me to go "well wtf are you then" as in effect you're identifying as something that cannot really exist.

    When I've tried to get to the bottom of this for myself people have usually come up with something about gender roles, which are pretty irrelevant. I've yet to find any tangible argument for identifying as more or less none-human that makes any kind of sense.

    Gender variance is like gender nonconformity, so not fitting into traditional notions of male or female.

    No-one is claiming that they are biologically not male or female (excluding intersex people of course) but rather they're saying that they do not fit into what we call male and female, gender is more than biology. Some people just don't feel that the label of male or female fits them.

    I guess you're referring to transgender people here. First of all, they do not decide to be something else. Transgender people feel a mismatch between their biological sex and their gender identity, so when they transition they haven't chosen to become a new person, they are transitioning into the body that they feel is right for them.

    I guess it's hard to understand when it's not you.

    (Original post by lolakirk)
    1, Everybody is attracted to people rather than genders. No heterosexual woman looks at some random hobo on the street and think: GENDER: MALE!!! I am attracted!! It's a male!!!!

    2, So you have to be pansexual to acknowledge that there are people who aren't male or female?
    When I say people, I mean people regardless of gender. Of course people are like that, but pansexuality is different because I guess you could say, pansexuals are gender-blind. So gender doesn't factor into whether or not you're attracted to people.

    If you are pansexual then you acknowledge that, but you don't have to be pansexual to acknowledge that there are people who aren't male or female. I didn't claim that only pansexuals could acknowledge that.
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    (Original post by lolakirk)
    so what gender is someone who is intersex?
    Male or female, but with dodgy genitals.
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    (Original post by Bad Faith)
    Gender variance is like gender nonconformity, so not fitting into traditional notions of male or female.

    No-one is claiming that they are biologically not male or female (excluding intersex people of course) but rather they're saying that they do not fit into what we call male and female, gender is more than biology. Some people just don't feel that the label of male or female fits them.

    I guess you're referring to transgender people here. First of all, they do not decide to be something else. Transgender people feel a mismatch between their biological sex and their gender identity, so when they transition they haven't chosen to become a new person, they are transitioning into the body that they feel is right for them.

    I guess it's hard to understand when it's not you.



    When I say people, I mean people regardless of gender. Of course people are like that, but pansexuality is different because I guess you could say, pansexuals are gender-blind. So gender doesn't factor into whether or not you're attracted to people.

    If you are pansexual then you acknowledge that, but you don't have to be pansexual to acknowledge that there are people who aren't male or female. I didn't claim that only pansexuals could acknowledge that.

    Well if you didn't claim that, then I don't see what your point was in saying that you acknowledge that there are people aside from male/female if you are bisexual. Nobody is pansexual to acknowledge that other genders exist, they are pansexual because they just happenedto be.

    And again, with bisexual people, gender doesn't factor into whether they are attracted to someone or not. Bisexuality = pansexuality. There is no difference.

    And 'No-one is claiming that they are biologically not male or female (excluding intersex people of course)'

    Intersex people are both male and female biologically, and they can identify as both female or just male or just female. I have a cousin who is intersex and she has always felt like a female andhas gone through extensive therapy etc to stop any signs of maleness emerging, and nobody would ever guess she was born intersex. Other intersex people identify as male and look male and there are others who identify as both genders.
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    (Original post by MildredMalone)
    Male or female, but with dodgy genitals.
    There are intrsex people who identify as both genders and sometimes dress more masculine and sometimes more feminine, or they might look very androgynous and you wouldn't know whether they are male or female. So what if an androgynous intersex person says they are both male AND female? Do you tell them that they have to choose one even though they have both genitals?
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    (Original post by TheRealOutsider)
    Now, this is interesting. I noticed how several people say that Pansexuality is 'Fake'.
    I don't know what this is. It's like a new sexuality is invented everyday
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    (Original post by acupofgreentea)
    Labels are whatever you make them to be.

    If a person chooses to label their sexual orientation as "pansexual," it isn't fake because that's their sexual orientation.

    New labels aren't a result of being a "special snowflake" so much as trying to find a box to fit yourself in as per society's request when the sexuality spectrum is so varied - "pansexuality," to my knowledge, was produced because people felt bisexuality only encompassed male and females ("bi" meaning two) and excluded those who didn't fit into the binary.

    However I have a friend who is bisexual despite being willing to be involved with people outside of the binary - she likes the label bisexual, so she uses that. I call myself queer (which can be controversial, depending on who you ask) but the closest label I could identify with is pansexual and, for me, that merely means gender doesn't really factor into my attraction to someone.



    I was wondering where that connection came from myself, to be honest. :erm:
    I feel the same way, pansexual is the term that fits best although I just say that I'm attracted to humans and when people demand a label I say pansexual. Queer is also a term I sometimes use.

    Anyways it's good to see a fellow queer.

    (Original post by MildredMalone)
    Male or female, but with dodgy genitals.
    Intersex aren't male or female, hence the term INTERSEX. :facepalm2: Get your facts straight. (I used male and female here in terms of sex not gender).

    http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Disorde...roduction.aspx
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    (Original post by Bad Faith)
    Intersex aren't male or female, hence the term INTERSEX. :facepalm2: Get your facts straight.

    http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Disorde...roduction.aspx
    Would you tell a transwoman she's a man, because she still has a todge?
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    (Original post by lolakirk)
    Well if you didn't claim that, then I don't see what your point was in saying that you acknowledge that there are people aside from male/female if you are bisexual. Nobody is pansexual to acknowledge that other genders exist, they are pansexual because they just happenedto be.

    And again, with bisexual people, gender doesn't factor into whether they are attracted to someone or not. Bisexuality = pansexuality. There is no difference.

    And 'No-one is claiming that they are biologically not male or female (excluding intersex people of course)'

    Intersex people are both male and female biologically, and they can identify as both female or just male or just female. I have a cousin who is intersex and she has always felt like a female andhas gone through extensive therapy etc to stop any signs of maleness emerging, and nobody would ever guess she was born intersex. Other intersex people identify as male and look male and there are others who identify as both genders.
    A bisexual can acknowledge non-binary people but then again the term bisexual implies that you are attracted to people of both or two genders. I was just saying what it means to be a pansexual. Of course being pansexual is more than that, that's just one part of it.

    Again, bi means two, pan means all...so there's the difference right there.

    Intersex people don't fit into the category of male or female, of course they are a mixture of the two but not strictly either. And of course intersex people can identify however they want to.
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    (Original post by MildredMalone)
    Would you tell a transwoman she's a man, because she still has a todge?
    Intersex =/= trans

    I think you're a bit confused.
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    it sounds made up. what does it mean?
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    (Original post by Bad Faith)
    Intersex =/= trans

    I think you're a bit confused.
    Nope, I'm just using an example.

    Not every intersex will be "genderless", they may well identify as male or female, regardless of their bits.
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    (Original post by Bad Faith)
    A bisexual can acknowledge non-binary people but then again the term bisexual implies that you are attracted to people of both or two genders. I was just saying what it means to be a pansexual. Of course being pansexual is more than that, that's just one part of it.


    Even if people are so up in arms about the fact that 'bi' means two/both, bisexuality and pansexuality are the exact same concepts. The word was made up when all this 'third gender' stuff wasn't recognized. So if you wanted a word that was all inclusive then you could use the word pansexual and abandon the bisexual word altogether, but making a distinction between the two makes no sense. Bisexuality IS pansexuality. There might be a difference between the definitions of the words 'bi' and 'pan', but there isn't a difference between the genders of the people these groups are atttracted to. But gender fluid people ARE two/both genders, not a different gender outside of the two.


    (Original post by Bad Faith)
    Intersex people don't fit into the category of male or female, of course they are a mixture of the two but not strictly either. And of course intersex people can identify however they want to.
    So what is this 'not stritcly' made up of then, aside from male and female? Just whatever you make up in your mind? 1/3 female, 1/3 male, 1/3 unicorn?
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    (Original post by Bad Faith)
    I

    Intersex aren't male or female, hence the term INTERSEX. :facepalm2: Get your facts straight.

    http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Disorde...roduction.aspx
    Or maybe you should get your facts straight? Intersex refers to their biological sex (aka which genitals they were born with), not their gender. They can identify as either male or female or gender fluid. Lay off the facepalm.
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    (Original post by MildredMalone)
    Nope, I'm just using an example.

    Not every intersex will be "genderless", they may well identify as male or female, regardless of their bits.
    Yeah, I know that.


    (Original post by lolakirk)
    Even if people are so up in arms about the fact that 'bi' means two/both, bisexuality and pansexuality are the exact same concepts. The word was made up when all this 'third gender' stuff wasn't recognized. So if you wanted a word that was all inclusive then you could use the word pansexual and abandon the bisexual word altogether, but making a distinction between the two makes no sense. Bisexuality IS pansexuality. There might be a difference between the definitions of the words 'bi' and 'pan', but there isn't a difference between the genders of the people these groups are atttracted to. But gender fluid people ARE two/both genders, not a different gender outside of the two.


    So what is this 'not stritcly' made up of then, aside from male and female? Just whatever you make up in your mind? 1/3 female, 1/3 male, 1/3 unicorn?
    The bold bit is exactly why some people choose to identify as pansexual. There might not be a difference in the genders they are attracted to but the concept of pansexuality is different. Gender fluid is not the only option besides male or female, there's agender for example and there are people who are gender nonconforming like myself.

    Obviously they are not strictly male or female. Intersex people have characteristics of both sexes but they do not fit into either box perfectly hence why they are intersex. Intersex people can have any gender identity, like I've said before.
    And unicorn? Seriously?
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    (Original post by lolakirk)
    Or maybe you should get your facts straight? Intersex refers to their biological sex (aka which genitals they were born with), not their gender. They can identify as either male or female or gender fluid. Lay off the facepalm.
    I was referring to male or female in terms of sex there, I should've made that clear sorry.
 
 
 
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