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Way Muslims brought up causes terrorism? watch

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    (Original post by Truthseeker1)
    There is such a thing as being a member of the West. Where do you sign up? What is being Western?

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    Dhimmis like you don't qualify!
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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    You have to lose your Islamic culture to be western? What idiocy. Islam has 'been in the west' since 700 AD.
    Islam has been in bloody conflict with the west (by which I mean Christendom) sine the seventh century. Is that what you mean?

    You do know that it is a supremacist ideology that spread through conquest and subjugation, right? The Middle East used to be largely Christian, as did North Africa. How many Christians live there now? Where did they go?

    Islam conquered Spain and tried to subjugate modern day France but were beaten back in battle. Successive Muslim warlords attempted to conquer the headquarters of eastern Christendom for centuries, eventually capturing and sacking one of the richest and most beautiful cities on the planet in 1453. The streets of Constantinople ran with blood as captured prisoners were beheaded. Others were enslaved in their tens of thousands and taken away by ship. The women became sex slaves, with nuns especially prized. All in accordance with Sharia. You think the Islamic State dreamt all the Yazidi atrocities up all by themselves? Where are all the Christians in modern day Turkey, by the way? They were ethnically cleansed.

    Muslim armies committed genocide and sexual enslavement (very keen on that bit) in their conquest and subjugation of the Indian sub continent. One of the most terrible episodes in the whole of world history.

    But of course this bloody , centuries long struggle between Muslim and Kaffir has come to an end now. We all get along, history has finished. It is just a few nutters, nothing to do with a glorious religion of peace whose values are being twisted.

    The Islamic State understand their religion and history far better than culpably naive wet western liberals like you. They claim Koranic authority for all their actions. On what authority do YOU dispute their interpretation of the "sacred" texts? The ones which inspired all of the terrible events described above.

    Islam has been in the west since 700? Yeah you got that right.
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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    Nor have I heard about it.
    How many Muslims has this happened to then overall?
    That's not really the issue here. It's your fallacious assumption that if it hasn't happened to you or your acquaintances or never heard of it, it's not the majority.
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    (Original post by generallee)
    Islam has been in bloody conflict with the west (by which I mean Christendom) sine the seventh century. Is that what you mean?

    You do know that it is a supremacist ideology that spread through conquest and subjugation, right? The Middle East used to be largely Christian, as did North Africa. How many Christians live there now? Where did they go?

    Islam conquered Spain and tried to subjugate modern day France but were beaten back in battle. Successive Muslim warlords attempted to conquer the headquarters of eastern Christendom for centuries, eventually capturing and sacking one of the richest and most beautiful cities on the planet in 1453. The streets of Constantinople ran with blood as captured prisoners were beheaded. Others were enslaved in their tens of thousands and taken away by ship. The women became sex slaves, with nuns especially prized. All in accordance with Sharia. You think the Islamic State dreamt all the Yazidi atrocities up all by themselves? Where are all the Christians in modern day Turkey, by the way? They were ethnically cleansed.

    Muslim armies committed genocide and sexual enslavement (very keen on that bit) in their conquest and subjugation of the Indian sub continent. One of the most terrible episodes in the whole of world history.

    But of course this bloody , centuries long struggle between Muslim and Kaffir has come to an end now. We all get along, history has finished. It is just a few nutters, nothing to do with a glorious religion of peace whose values are being twisted.

    The Islamic State understand their religion and history far better than culpably naive wet western liberals like you. They claim Koranic authority for all their actions. On what authority do YOU dispute their interpretation of the "sacred" texts? The ones which inspired all of the terrible events described above.

    Islam has been in the west since 700? Yeah you got that right.
    Well I am talking about the west, and not 'Christendom'.
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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    Well I am talking about the west, and not 'Christendom'.
    The "West" is a product of Judaism, the Greek and Roman Empires, and Western "Christendom" (in contra distinction to the Eastern church).

    The United States now the dominant economic and military power is heir to that culture, culturally it springs from Europe. Especially from Roman Christianity (mingled with Judaism).

    How do you delineate the "west" then? And whence do you derive the term?
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    (Original post by generallee)
    The "West" is a product of Judaism, the Greek and Roman Empires, and Western "Christendom" (in contra distinction to the Eastern church).

    The United States now the dominant economic and military power is heir to that culture, culturally it springs from Europe. Especially from Roman Christianity (mingled with Judaism).

    How do you delineate the "west" then? And whence do you derive the term?
    I'm not delineating the west, don't put words in my mouth.

    I am simply saying that when I gave my two cents on the issue, my definition of 'west' was not restricted to western religions.
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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    I'm not delineating the west, don't put words in my mouth.

    I am simply saying that when I gave my two cents on the issue, my definition of 'west' was not restricted to western religions.
    I can't let that stand.

    You wrote: "what idiocy. Islam has been in the west since 700 AD."

    Leaving aside what Muslims were actually doing in the Europe of the Eighth Century of which you seemed laughably unaware, this is to make an error of anachronism.

    The west did not exist as an idea in the seven hundreds, it is a more modern construct. That is why I mentioned Christendom, which you joked at in your ignorance. Contemporaries did understand that idea even though you don't.

    But I didn't mention western Christendom because even that didn't exist then. The Great Schism occurred three and a half centuries later in 1054. That set in stone the irreconcilable divide between Eastern and Western Christianity.

    It is from that divide that our very term "the west" ultimately derives I would argue.

    But to talk about "the West" in the year 700 is to impose the present day upon the past. That is absurd. Idiocy even, to use your word.
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    (Original post by generallee)
    I can't let that stand.

    You wrote: "what idiocy. Islam has been in the west since 700 AD."

    Leaving aside what Muslims were actually doing in the Europe of the Eighth Century of which you seemed laughably unaware, this is to make an error of anachronism.

    The west did not exist as an idea in the seven hundreds, it is a more modern construct. That is why I mentioned Christendom, which you joked at in your ignorance. Contemporaries did understand that idea even though you don't.

    But I didn't mention western Christendom because even that didn't exist then. The Great Schism occurred three and a half centuries later in 1054. That set in stone the irreconcilable divide between Eastern and Western Christianity.

    It is from that divide that our very term "the west" ultimately derives I would argue.

    But to talk about "the West" in the year 700 is to impose the present day upon the past. That is absurd. Idiocy even, to use your word.
    By the west, I am talking about western countries. England, France, Italy, etc. Islam has existed in western countries for centuries. Maybe it was through aggressive conquest, but to deny that Islam was in the west based on the reasons for their presence here isn't any different from denying that the Romans were in England.

    That's what my OP was referring to, so stop twisting this around please. I don't care what you think the west should be defined as, because I am telling you right now what I was referring to. And your entire argument against me seems to be based on your false interpretation of what I was saying.

    Whether or not it's religiously or geographically incorrect, when I am coming forth and telling you what I mean by 'west', there should be no debate.
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    The problem is that the left ignore the problem of extremism while the right exploit the problem for political gain which turns ordinary Muslims towards it. Both are awful and there is a complete lack of a balanced. Reasoned approach from either side.

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    One of the problems is that they're brought up to dedicate their lives to a book which tells you to fight and cut the fingers off unbelievers, and murder apostates, adulterers, and homosexuals. They're also taught to love with all their hearts a man who's army killed hundreds mercilessly.
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    pretty accurate ngl :lol:








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    although my parents do allow me to talk on the phone by myself without people listening, or to talk to my friends after lessons etc. so guess it ain't all bad
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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    One of the problems is that they're brought up to dedicate their lives to a book which tells you to fight and cut the fingers off unbelievers, and murder apostates, adulterers, and homosexuals. They're also taught to love with all their hearts a man who's army killed hundreds mercilessly.
    Same too is true of other religions.
    We should tackle religious extremism and segregation in its entirity.


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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Same too is true of other religions.
    We should tackle religious extremism and segregation in its entirity.


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    No other religion has such a violent prophet who its adherents are taught to model themselves on.
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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    You have to lose your Islamic culture to be western? What idiocy. Islam has 'been in the west' since 700 AD.
    Yes, unwanted and at one point forced via an invasion.
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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    By the west, I am talking about western countries. England, France, Italy, etc. Islam has existed in western countries for centuries. Maybe it was through aggressive conquest, but to deny that Islam was in the west based on the reasons for their presence here isn't any different from denying that the Romans were in England.
    It is true that during Islam's Golden Age it had a significant intellectual impact on Western Europe. A highly beneficial one.

    But apart from that, if you exclude Spain and the parts of the Balkans which were Ottoman rather than Habsburg, Islam's cultural impact on Western Europe was pretty negligible right up till the Second World War.

    How many Muslims lived in the UK before the War? How many lived in France? In Belgium? The numbers were minuscule, of no consequence for the best part of thirteen centuries.

    Whatever, if you don't believe me I can only suggest you read up on it.
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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    No other religion has such a violent prophet who its adherents are taught to model themselves on.
    Take a look at attacks in America and child abuse in Ireland and UK done under the name or scope of Christianity.

    I agree that Islam is a dangerous ideology but they all are and we should focus on tackling all religious extremism and segregation.

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    (Original post by generallee)
    It is true that during Islam's Golden Age it had a significant intellectual impact on Western Europe. A highly beneficial one.

    But apart from that, if you exclude Spain and the parts of the Balkans which were Ottoman rather than Habsburg, Islam's cultural impact on Western Europe was pretty negligible right up till the Second World War.

    How many Muslims lived in the UK before the War? How many lived in France? In Belgium? The numbers were minuscule, of no consequence for the best part of thirteen centuries.

    Whatever, if you don't believe me I can only suggest you read up on it.
    You're avoiding my point completely, you're overcomplicating it to a situation in which it is no longer relevant to my original point.

    There were Muslims and Islam in the west long ago.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Take a look at attacks in America and child abuse in Ireland and UK done under the name or scope of Christianity.

    I agree that Islam is a dangerous ideology but they all are and we should focus on tackling all religious extremism and segregation.

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    Fair enough about what you said about Christianity. But

    1) Haven't heard of a Christian terrorist. You have a few Christian hate groups but the numbers are tiny. Christianity gets mocked on shows and magazines but I don't see Christians grabbing guns and shooting the editors of a magazine that mocked them. Muslims did that with Charlie Hebdo and there always has been an uproar whenever Islam gets satirised.

    2) Islam is a dangerous ideology, I agree with you completely. But, you don't have Christian, Hindu,Buddhist, Jewish countries that follow the book word by word. You have Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia who follow Sharia Law and believe in backward actions like the stoning of adulterers and the murder of apostates. You can't deny that it doesn't mention stoning in the Bible but there aren't any Christian countries which make that a part of their law like Saudi does.
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    Most of the terrorists are previously irreligious and also quite ignorant of their religion before they become religious fanatics. So you could say them not being brought up with knowledge of the basics of their religion contributes to them becoming radicalised later in their life.
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    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    Fair enough about what you said about Christianity. But

    1) Haven't heard of a Christian terrorist. You have a few Christian hate groups but the numbers are tiny.
    Since you're partially Indian
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism#India
 
 
 
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