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    (Original post by similarBlank)
    Hello,

    I'm curious,

    Why do people identify as Conservative and why do they think this is the best ideology?
    My guess is because there isn't much of an alternative in the eyes of the public.


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    so basically a tory is a scummy capitalist and labour helps scummy benefit cheats. Wow politics is alive and well on TSR.
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    (Original post by Mayhem™)
    It's one of their aspects; oh and cry me a river because the losers at school ended up being cleaners.

    Have you ever even cleaned a toilet?
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    Potentially insightful thread ruined.
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    (Original post by Jgco2chem)
    Already your blaming people for being poor, I believe people should be rewarded for hard work & there should be a system that helps progression not a system that keeps some people at the bottom for the top to benefit.
    Sometimes it is their fault that they're poor
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    Because some people have to be villains in order for others to be heroes.
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    And how exactly does a low tax system help people climb up the ranks?

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    Well look at the Tory starter homes as one example. You remove the burden of taxation making those homes more affordable and then substantially lower income tax (Osbourne has not gone nearly far enough in that regard) allowing people to save a deposit/the full amount quicker and ergo by lowering taxes in two areas you've expanded home ownership ('the property owning democracy ect..').
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    (Original post by Thomb)
    so basically a tory is a scummy capitalist and labour helps scummy benefit cheats. Wow politics is alive and well on TSR.
    Ah but the all important question is.. are you a scummy capitalist or a scummy benefits cheat?

    (Original post by Thomb)
    Have you ever even cleaned a toilet?
    Pretty sure one of the candidates on The Apprentice in 2014 cleaned toilets and got to the interview stage. She was very well from it by all accounts.
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    (Original post by similarBlank)
    Hello,

    I'm curious,

    Why do people identify as Conservative and why do they think this is the best ideology?
    British conservative is centre-wing so common sense with liberal = big scores.
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    I'm conservative because I believe in conservative/traditional values because these values are best for famillies, communities and society to stay healthy and functioning. Without this there will be decadence from which many problems will arise.
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    (Original post by StrangeBanana)
    It can be very comforting to think that those who are wealthy are wealthy simply because they've worked harder than others, but in reality it comes down to things which are - largely - out of their control. Your parents, your education, and your intelligence are perhaps the greatest influences on your life as a whole, and you don't get to choose them.
    You are assuming here that he particularly cared about the benefit flowing to the individual.

    The real strength of capitalism and being able to profit from work isn't that it divides wealth in a morally justifiable way. It doesn't really. However it does contribute to the overall advancement of society.

    There's nothing more social than trade, and when people get to benefit from it, everyone wins. While great innovators and inventors may have benefited from an education or upbringing others did not receive, the ability to profit from their enterprise has brought what they have created to the wider public.

    While I'm obvious simplifying the dynamics of a capitalist society, it is this arrangement that has driven forward living standards for decades. It is what has kept relatively free market societies in the driving seat globally, while their ideological alternatives have found themselves economically stagnant and comparatively impoverished.
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    (Original post by Mayhem™)
    I'm conservative because I believe people who earn more money than others should be allowed to keep the difference, not dish it out to the people who can't be bothered to get a job or didn't try at school.
    What about stupid people that just inherited their wealth?
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    That isn't what conservative means.
    You're conflating conservatism and Conservatism there. The Conservative Party isn't particularly conservative in the grand scheme of things. Margaret Thatcher, for example, was one of the most radical politicians of the post-war era and changed our society enormously - she was hardly a conservative in any meaningful sense.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Well look at the Tory starter homes as one example. You remove the burden of taxation making those homes more affordable and then substantially lower income tax (Osbourne has not gone nearly far enough in that regard) allowing people to save a deposit/the full amount quicker and ergo by lowering taxes in two areas you've expanded home ownership ('the property owning democracy ect..').
    Since when does lower taxes actually contribute to a lowering of prices? The starter homes are of course a great example of backing landlords. By reducing taxes you reduce public services, meaning a greater share of personal income must be dedicated to public transport, health, welfare etc. All of which will affect the poorest more.

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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Ah but the all important question is.. are you a scummy capitalist or a scummy benefits cheat?



    Pretty sure one of the candidates on The Apprentice in 2014 cleaned toilets and got to the interview stage. She was very well from it by all accounts.
    I'd like to be a capitalist but my ill health stops me so I guess I'm a (scummy) benefits type thing. (arm I don't want to call myself a cheat for obvious reasons)

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    (Why did I write this rubbish first thing in the morning?)
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    (Original post by xylas)
    Yeah you don't. No-one does.

    No-one in my family has been murdered but that is obviously something that doesn't only affect an individual. I don't want to get personal but there are worse things that happen to people including myself that you have no idea about (and vice versa). I don't pity those with medical conditions.

    Everyone goes through massive problems in their life. Everyone. I think you know that but what you don't want to admit is that your problems are no worse than others'.

    Your attitude that "a lot more bad things happen to me than many others" in no way helps you at all, and if anything contributes to you being affected by your problems.

    Honestly I am trying to help you because I've had to battle with this mentality so many times (I used to have it and I've found it to be a common human natural response). It is 3am in the morning and I am not spending minutes of my life for 'shits and giggles' believe me.

    The best thing you can do from now on is to come around to thinking along the lines of:
    -Bad things happen.
    -I don't need to compare to others (some have it worse some of the time, some have it better some of the time).
    -I am in control of my life.
    -I can determine whether or not I get affected by bad things in my life.
    -I am not 'damaged goods'.
    -I have the capability to do any good thing I want.
    -The world is a better place with me in it.

    Please just give what I say a chance. But don't reject all of it because I know at least some of it is true.
    I believe there is two trains of thought on things like mental health, yours is that no matter what its up to a individual how they interpret it, others will say things can affect people different.

    It does not take into account mental heath issues, the bullying and bad school set me back many years in social development as if I stood up for myself I was given the blame, and if I ignored it the bullying continued, when I started getting more confident I had a family murder, when that got a little better my grandfather got cancer, I then had flatmates who had 24/7 parties and identity theft literally stole about £5000 from me (which was my student loan, savings and overdraft) and opened credit in my name and to top it off I found out I was autistic! and thats not to include individual things like living next to drug dealers, having bi polar flatmates who got agressive, neighbours on drugs having sex for over 24 hours straight, having all your post like birthday cards stolen, being illegally evicted, being burgled.

    Going through all that and not having a nervous breakdown I am stronger than you might think but of course it affected me.

    Each thing on its own would of been traumatic but together stopped me getting better.

    I could of handled the bullying at school if I had more opportunities in life rather than parents struggling to put food on table as then I wouldn't have to worry about being able to afford study materials, not being seen as a waste of air by the school
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    (Original post by xylas)
    I find this to be a very weak argument for or against anything.

    Of course many things are out of your control, what has that got to do with aspiration to financial gain? It's not to do with working hard only but working effectively.
    I was responding to the (utterly flawed) idea that all poor people are poor because they "can't be bothered" or "didn't try at school". Do you support that notion?

    (Original post by xylas)
    We don't live in a deterministic world. Just because things happen doesn't mean you should let yourself be affected by them.
    Whether the world is deterministic or not is still a completely open question, so I'm not sure what makes you so confident in that statement.

    (Original post by L i b)
    You are assuming here that he particularly cared about the benefit flowing to the individual.The real strength of capitalism and being able to profit from work isn't that it divides wealth in a morally justifiable way. It doesn't really. However it does contribute to the overall advancement of society.There's nothing more social than trade, and when people get to benefit from it, everyone wins. While great innovators and inventors may have benefited from an education or upbringing others did not receive, the ability to profit from their enterprise has brought what they have created to the wider public.While I'm obvious simplifying the dynamics of a capitalist society, it is this arrangement that has driven forward living standards for decades. It is what has kept relatively free market societies in the driving seat globally, while their ideological alternatives have found themselves economically stagnant and comparatively impoverished.
    I'm not assuming anything. He said people who earn less than others are in that financial position because they're lazier, which isn't true. Not sure why you've interpreted my post as an argument against capitalism or free trade.
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    (Original post by Mayhem™)
    I'm conservative because I believe people who earn more money than others should be allowed to keep the difference, not dish it out to the people who can't be bothered to get a job or didn't try at school.
    Immaturity, privilege and a lack of education explain this view.
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    (Original post by slade p)
    I'm conservative because I believe in conservative/traditional values because these values are best for famillies, communities and society to stay healthy and functioning. Without this there will be decadence from which many problems will arise.
    So your whole belief system is based on a logical fallacy?

    Fancy another go?
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    (Original post by Little Popcorns)
    Immaturity, privilege and a lack of education explain this view.
    Surely the proven fact that as people get older they tend to vote Conservative kinda goes against the whole immaturity argument?
 
 
 
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