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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    If you have enough money people will smuggle you anything. Bombs dont even have to be that big to cause terror and then ofc there are other ways if you were so inclined to creat casulaties, such as using a vehicle.

    We are already in charge of our own customs, so leaving would make no difference. We could already have more people on norders except we have cut them.

    Guns or bombs it doesnt matter the idea is to use whats at hand and to create terror.
    Yes, but these terrorists aren't osama bin laden, they aren't loaded in their isolated homegrown cells. Honestly, I think most people find the concept of a guy going nuts with a kalashnikov in a crowded area more intimidating than a bomb. At least when the bomb goes off, it is off very little further consequence, gunmen can go on for hours or days. If we leave the EU, we would have more control since we could put more money into border control that was spent on the EU membership.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    And thats going to make us safe?

    We are on the security council, we are a leading nation whose interests lie in international trade and peace. We have a humanitarian and financial interest in playing a part.
    You underestimate the power of a modern day frigate, it would only take one to monitor the coast of kent in reality.
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    Yes, but these terrorists aren't osama bin laden, they aren't loaded in their isolated homegrown cells. Honestly, I think most people find the concept of a guy going nuts with a kalashnikov in a crowded area more intimidating than a bomb. At least when the bomb goes off, it is off very little further consequence, gunmen can go on for hours or days. If we leave the EU, we would have more control since we could put more money into border control that was spent on the EU membership.
    We are already in control of borders in those terms. leaving the EU would make no difference. We choose to cut border security, which is to do with the Uk givernment and not the EU.

    A bomb is more efficient becayse it cna injure, maim multiple people in seconds and be left whilst you try and escape. Anyway it isnt a question of either or they cna use both because they have the money to acquire both.
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    You underestimate the power of a modern day frigate, it would only take one to monitor the coast of kent in reality.
    But we are talking about smuggling we have more coastline than kent and more ways of getting goods into the country. Will it check every container, every lorry, every parcel. hardly.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    We are already in control of borders in those terms. leaving the EU would make no difference. We choose to cut border security, which is to do with the Uk givernment and not the EU.

    A bomb is more efficient becayse it cna injure, maim multiple people in seconds and be left whilst you try and escape. Anyway it isnt a question of either or they cna use both because they have the money to acquire both.
    Yes, but with more money the government can spend more, and since border security is a response to an existential threat, I think if the government was intelligent it would give it some attention.

    Bullets can injure too. Sure they can get both potentially, but what we have to acknowledge is that as far as we know these are mostly people operating out of their own pocket, which isn't necessarily enough to fund a very "good" terrorist attack.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    But we are talking about smuggling we have more coastline than kent and more ways of getting goods into the country. Will it check every container, every lorry, every parcel. hardly.
    Yes, but we have more than one frigate. I meant more going back to rafts and things, as the ships can pick them up on various instruments it has. Enforcing border security on dover and calais will improve the ability to search parcels etc. Which will be funded through the money saved through brexit with any luck.
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    Yes, but with more money the government can spend more, and since border security is a response to an existential threat, I think if the government was intelligent it would give it some attention.

    Bullets can injure too. Sure they can get both potentially, but what we have to acknowledge is that as far as we know these are mostly people operating out of their own pocket, which isn't necessarily enough to fund a very "good" terrorist attack.
    You really are naive. ISIS has millions and a lot od dedicated fanatics. they can afford to pay for items to be smuggled or for enough followers to be inspired into becoming terrorists. So whilst you are vusy in your little ship and on the border watching for the terrorist express they are busy on social media deciding who and what to attack,

    What do you think all the pronlem with money laundering is? if ISIS want to transfer money they can.
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    Yes, but we have more than one frigate. I meant more going back to rafts and things, as the ships can pick them up on various instruments it has. Enforcing border security on dover and calais will improve the ability to search parcels etc. Which will be funded through the money saved through brexit with any luck.
    So how many rafts are there coming to the UK?
    We are signed up to international conventions which means we have to consider and accept asylum seekers, so you wont be seeing your super dooper frigate off the Kent coast just turning women and children back in their inflateables.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    You really are naive. ISIS has millions and a lot od dedicated fanatics. they can afford to pay for items to be smuggled or for enough followers to be inspired into becoming terrorists. So whilst you are vusy in your little ship and on the border watching for the terrorist express they are busy on social media deciding who and what to attack,

    What do you think all the pronlem with money laundering is? if ISIS want to transfer money they can.
    No I am not, I am not saying we can stop it completely, I am saying we can MITIGATE some of it. ISIS is unified in Iraq and Syria, and may have a few cells in europe, but from what I can read shipping supplies to them is already quite difficult, and making border security in the UK stronger would make it even more difficult. This also ignores that there are hundreds of islamist cells independent of ISIS, Al Queda is fighting ISIS for instance. These cells will be running off a few people's money, not a ISIS's.

    Sure, they may fantacise about their little attacks on London or whatever, but while this is happening we have the borders more strongly monitored, meaning that we can take the material from them before they can conduct their attacks.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    So how many rafts are there coming to the UK?
    We are signed up to international conventions which means we have to consider and accept asylum seekers, so you wont be seeing your super dooper frigate off the Kent coast just turning women and children back in their inflateables.
    You are aware that refugees are supposed to seek refuge in the first country they hit where they are not in danger right? That's Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan etc

    Anyway, thats not what we are trying to stop, we are trying to stop the ECONOMIC MIGRANTS who are ****ing up Europe at the moment. I frankly couldn't care less about the refugees all that much, its the scum that are piggybacking off this crisis.
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    No I am not, I am not saying we can stop it completely, I am saying we can MITIGATE some of it. ISIS is unified in Iraq and Syria, and may have a few cells in europe, but from what I can read shipping supplies to them is already quite difficult, and making border security in the UK stronger would make it even more difficult. This also ignores that there are hundreds of islamist cells independent of ISIS, Al Queda is fighting ISIS for instance. These cells will be running off a few people's money, not a ISIS's.

    Sure, they may fantacise about their little attacks on London or whatever, but while this is happening we have the borders more strongly monitored, meaning that we can take the material from them before they can conduct their attacks.
    I think your overestimating having an extra plod on the border is going to be becayse their is enough potential here to make homegrown terrorists. You aret mitigating any of that. With enough money then people smuggle because its worth ££ to them. Anyway you carry on deluding yourself how it will make a substantila difference having your boat patrolling kent etc.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    I think your overestimating having an extra plod on the border is going to be becayse their is enough potential here to make homegrown terrorists. You aret mitigating any of that. With enough money then people smuggle because its worth ££ to them. Anyway you carry on deluding yourself how it will make a substantila difference having your boat patrolling kent etc.
    Yes, but terrorists cannot commit terrorist attacks without bombs and guns. If we can prevent as much of that as possible from getting into the UK, then we can reduce the amount of terrorist attacks to a minimum.

    I think you're deluding yourself thinking that the EU is completely inconsequential in aiding organised crime and terrorism.
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    You are aware that refugees are supposed to seek refuge in the first country they hit where they are not in danger right? That's Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan etc

    Anyway, thats not what we are trying to stop, we are trying to stop the ECONOMIC MIGRANTS who are ****ing up Europe at the moment. I frankly couldn't care less about the refugees all that much, its the scum that are piggybacking off this crisis.
    No they arent. they cna make an asylum claim in whatever country they wish. Go and read the UN convention.

    If they make a claim you have to consider their claim. We should spend more money on having a speedy process to reach a decision and deport those who are unsuccessful, but thats another area we cut funding from.
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    What we really need, and that people hardly ever mention is the likes of USA and France to stop bombing the **** out of Syria, Iraq, Sudan etc. It just breeds more terrorists, when people in these countries see bombs dropped on their friends and families, how else do you think they are going to react? Bloody hell man we need to get our **** together and start seeing whats right in front of us.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    No they arent. they cna make an asylum claim in whatever country they wish. Go and read the UN convention.

    If they make a claim you have to consider their claim. We should spend more money on having a speedy process to reach a decision and deport those who are unsuccessful, but thats another area we cut funding from.
    You're right on that, but surely its the best thing to do? You don't want to drag yourself thousands of miles around when you are safe in Turkey or Jordan?

    What we should be doing is getting them directly from the source and kicking out anybody who tries to get in through Calais or similar. It shows that they have enough means to get to the UK and thus aren't really in need of much help if they are travelling thousands of miles.
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    Yes, but terrorists cannot commit terrorist attacks without bombs and guns. If we can prevent as much of that as possible from getting into the UK, then we can reduce the amount of terrorist attacks to a minimum.

    I think you're deluding yourself thinking that the EU is completely inconsequential in aiding organised crime and terrorism.
    ive already told you they cna make their own bombs and having troops on site didnt stop the IRA getting jold of weapons and they had far less money .

    Kalashnikovs sell for £200-450 and then in the Uk for £4,000 am sure ISIS can afford that.on between $1-3m a day.
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    (Original post by steve909)
    What we really need, and that people hardly ever mention is the likes of USA and France to stop bombing the **** out of Syria, Iraq, Sudan etc. It just breeds more terrorists, when people in these countries see bombs dropped on their friends and families, how else do you think they are going to react? Bloody hell man we need to get our **** together and start seeing whats right in front of us.
    So if we let ISIS expand that will mean fewer attacks?
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    ive already told you they cna make their own bombs and having troops on site didnt stop the IRA getting jold of weapons and they had far less money .

    Kalashnikovs sell for £200-450 and then in the Uk for £4,000 am sure ISIS can afford that.on between $1-3m a day.
    I think you are ignoring what I am saying. AKs may be 200 pounds, but if we prevent illegal firearms from entering the country in large numbers anyway then they will become nigh impossible to buy.

    Also, the IRA had some very very rich backers. Some even rumour the american government.
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    I think you are ignoring what I am saying. AKs may be 200 pounds, but if we prevent illegal firearms from entering the country in large numbers anyway then they will become nigh impossible to buy.

    Also, the IRA had some very very rich backers. Some even rumour the american government.
    They are not impossible to buy if you have money. people smuggle if the demand is there. we try and stop dugs, but only stop a fraction getting through.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    They are not impossible to buy if you have money. people smuggle if the demand is there. we try and stop dugs, but only stop a fraction getting through.
    That's what I am saying. We are not going to stop all of the guns getting in of course, but we can certainly limit it. We make them as difficult as possible to buy.
 
 
 
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