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    (Original post by Zinan)
    Well that's you.


    There are thousands maybe even millions of muslims in the UK in cities like Bradford, London, Birmingham and Leeds that are well aware of some of their muslim friends getting radicalised, but turn a blind eye because "it has nothing to do with me or my religion"
    I absolutely agree. There are probably some muslims that do turn a blind eye- which is wrong. However there are many muslims that stand up and protest against such terrorist acts. Its a pity media are not as quick to show this.
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    I expect it comes down to not being a grass.

    Where I grew up on a council estate, there were hardly any Muslims, it was pretty much all white. There were a lot of bad people around who were involved with drugs, extortion, stabbings and so on and their families and close friends knew who they were, but the number one rule was don't be a grass.

    The pigs (sorry the 'police') would come round with their neighbourhood policing initiatives telling people to share information and only together could we beat crime but if you grassed there were consequences. Everybody knew who the grasses were.

    Now in the context of Islamic terrorism, these 'bad guys' were pretty small beer, they would smash up peoples cars or carry out stabbings and beatings up but they weren't in to beheadings or suicide bombings, so I expect ISIS style terrorists are harder in that sense. And there will be consequences within those communities as well.

    Also I expect it's easier to find out who grasses are in a tight family community like the asian/Muslim community.

    I still think they should inform the police but lets be realistic here, its a lot easier to sit behind your keyboard and declare "Muslims should be informers", but ask yourself if someone in your family was a hardnut drug dealer/gangster would you be strong enough to rat on them and then cop the consequences, and would you be do it if they were associated with an ISIS network who would then be interested in finding out where the leak came from.
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    (Original post by haj101)
    I absolutely agree. There are probably some muslims that do turn a blind eye- which is wrong. However there are many muslims that stand up and protest against such terrorist acts. Its a pity media are not as quick to show this.


    I'm pretty sure if we saw lots of this then it would be televised.


    If only muslims protested Islamic terrorism the way they protested refugee immigration and the death of the young syrian refugee baby, the world wouldn't be so critical of Islam and it's adherents.
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    The fight against these butchers defiantly means Muslims taking action, no question, but the presumption that Muslim are not is totally wrong. The guy who masterminded the Paris attacks and was arrested last week was only captured, because he got in touch with an old childhood friend (a Muslim man), who gave his information to the authorities.

    I disagree with the argument that those who carried out these attacks and ISIS are not Muslims. They very much are. That does not mean that their actions are legal in Islam, or represents the spirit of Islam or indeed that there actions represents the 'correct' understanding of Islam. But that's different from saying they are non-Muslims.

    I do think that we need to challenge Salafism and Wahabism, alongside sectarianism, and aspects of Muslim victimhood mentality too- but we must also challenge western hubris and self-righteousness- which can be said to be in a dialectical relationship with this victimisation.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    The fact that the Paris murder suspect was hiding out in the mainly Muslim district of Brussels makes a lot of people think Muslims are either actively hiding terrorists or turning a blind eye to them.

    Could Muslims do more to combat terrorists given the fact all the ISS terrorists are Muslims whatever apologists might say?

    If you are a Muslim and you suspect a friend or family member might be a terrorist, would you tell the authorities or you would turn a blind eye and claim they are not "real" Muslims and therefore none of your business if they blow up non Muslims?
    What the hell are you going on about? Terrorism has 0 to do with Muslims and Islam. Why should the responsibility fall on one sect of society. In fact it's right wing parties who are creating terrorism
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    (Original post by Thus-Spoke-Lara)
    The fight against these butchers defiantly means Muslims taking action, no question, but the presumption that Muslim are not is totally wrong. The guy who masterminded the Paris attacks and was arrested last week was only captured, because he got in touch with an old childhood friend (a Muslim man), who gave his information to the authorities.

    I disagree with the argument that those who carried out these attacks and ISIS are not Muslims. They very much are. That does not mean that their actions are legal in Islam, or represents the spirit of Islam or indeed that there actions represents the 'correct' understanding of Islam. But that's different from saying they are non-Muslims.

    I do think that we need to challenge Salafism and Wahabism, alongside sectarianism, and aspects of Muslim victimhood mentality too- but we must also challenge western hubris and self-righteousness- which can be said to be in a dialectical relationship with this victimisation.



    As much as I agree with the majority of what of you've just said and wish there were more muslims like you in influential positions to speak out against islamic terrorism, i have to disagree with the fact that their actions are not legal in Islam.


    The last surah revealed to muhammed. Surah 9 is more or less an instruction manual for terrorism. And how to spread it by the sword. Read it, read your hadiths, the Sahih ones read the commandments of your prophets and you'll see you're wrong here.
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    (Original post by Arsenal96123)
    What the hell are you going on about? Terrorism has 0 to do with Muslims and Islam. Why should the responsibility fall on one sect of society. In fact it's right wing parties who are creating terrorism


    Utter nonsense.


    Come out of your stage of ignorance before we progress as a society.
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    (Original post by Arsenal96123)
    What the hell are you going on about? Terrorism has 0 to do with Muslims and Islam. Why should the responsibility fall on one sect of society. In fact it's right wing parties who are creating terrorism
    Wrong it has 0 to do with the vast majority of Muslims but everything to do with a small section of them.
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    (Original post by Zinan)
    As much as I agree with the majority of what of you've just said and wish there were more muslims like you in influential positions to speak out against islamic terrorism, i have to disagree with the fact that their actions are not legal in Islam.


    The last surah revealed to muhammed. Surah 9 is more or less an instruction manual for terrorism. And how to spread it by the sword. Read it, read your hadiths, the Sahih ones read the commandments of your prophets and you'll see you're wrong here.
    I have a surprise for you, I have read this Surah. I have an even bigger surprise for you, I have actually read the whole Qu'ran too, I have concluded that not only is it not a terrorism manual but that violence is abhorred by the Qu'ran. I can conclude this because I can read.

    I do not know of any other piece of literature where you take one line and decide upon the whole meaning of the book (without reading the rest of it). It's like justifying a surveillance state based on one line for George Orwell's 1984 which reads, "Big Brother is infallible and all-powerful. Every success, every achievement, every victory, every scientific discovery, all knowledge, all wisdom, all happiness, all virtue, are held issue directly from his leadership and inspiration." Now, anyone familiar with the story of 1984 knows that it is a polemic against the surveillance state, but if we do not read the whole story and selectively quote from it, a problem clearly emerges as can be seen in this example.
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    (Original post by yasmeenak)
    Hi, I can understand how frustrated you are. I'm a Muslim myself, and it angers me a lot. Can I just clarify though - ISS terrorists are not Muslim, they may claim to be - but they certainly do not reflect the true beliefs and ethics of Islam. We do not accept them.

    If I did suspect a friend/family member, number one, I'd advise them. Tell other family members/well known community leaders - have a chat with them, explain to them why they're wrong etc.

    But, sadly, most people are radicalised and brainwashed online - or in secret gatherings with their so-called 'leader' and it tends to be very difficult to weed them out! Like I'll give you an example, recently, in our town a whole family of what seemed to be normal muslims left on holiday to their homeland and when they were missing for a long period of time - investigations were opened and it was discovered they ran to ISS!! It took the whole of the community with a massive shock because it was absolutely unsuspected. Over 8 family members, including babies and a terminally ill elder person!

    Yes, the Muslim community is recognising this, and we are doing a LOT to stop individuals getting radicalised and becoming terrorists. We are doing our very best, but there is only so little we can do.
    Who are you to judge?
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    (Original post by Slutty Salati)
    Islam will dominate Western Europe.
    If this isn't a troll then no, it will never dominate Europe.
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    (Original post by Thus-Spoke-Lara)
    I have a surprise for you, I have read this Surah. I have an even bigger surprise for you, I have actually read the whole Qu'ran too, I have concluded that not only is it not a terrorism manual but that violence is abhorred by the Qu'ran. I can conclude this because I can read.

    I do not know of any other piece of literature where you take one line and decide upon the whole meaning of the book (without reading the rest of it). It's like justifying a surveillance state based on one line for George Orwell's 1984 which reads, "Big Brother is infallible and all-powerful. Every success, every achievement, every victory, every scientific discovery, all knowledge, all wisdom, all happiness, all virtue, are held issue directly from his leadership and inspiration." Now, anyone familiar with the story of 1984 knows that it is a polemic against the surveillance state, but if we do not read the whole story and selectively quote from it, a problem clearly emerges as can be seen in this example.



    Mate all you did hear was disagree with what I said about Surah 9.

    You haven't disproved my statement with anything. No verses, no statements, no research, no data, no stats, no polls, NOTHING.

    All you did was say " I have concluded that not only is it not a terrorism manual but that violence is abhorred by the Qu'ran."


    What proof do you have to back up this statement because all you've done now is argue based on conjecture.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    The fact that the Paris murder suspect was hiding out in the mainly Muslim district of Brussels makes a lot of people think Muslims are either actively hiding terrorists or turning a blind eye to them.

    Could Muslims do more to combat terrorists given the fact all the ISS terrorists are Muslims whatever apologists might say?

    If you are a Muslim and you suspect a friend or family member might be a terrorist, would you tell the authorities or you would turn a blind eye and claim they are not "real" Muslims and therefore none of your business if they blow up non Muslims?
    its more likely ignoring terrorist suspects. as a british muslim, we try and ignore / put restraining orders on terror supporters (lowsy free speech) but there is nothing we can do. if anything, the government should just ship these nutjobs to the pacific garbage island to live of waste and seagulls / get eaten by pacific wildlife
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    (Original post by slutty salati)
    islam will dominate western europe.


    reported
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    (Original post by Halal Whoe)
    Who are you to judge?
    LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL who am I judging exactly? Please re-read my post.
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    (Original post by yasmeenak)
    LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL who am I judging exactly? Please re-read my post.
    You said they are not Muslim? You may stipulate that they are not Islam, but whether they are Muslim or not is up to God
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    (Original post by Zinan)
    reported
    Lmao, that poster has already been banned.
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    (Original post by Halal Whoe)
    You said they are not Muslim? You may stipulate that they are not Islam, but whether they are Muslim or not is up to God
    Lol the majority of Islamic Scholars have declared all Isis Supporters & fighters to be non-muslims. They've murdered Non-muslims, and muslims, kept young women as prostitutes, tortured muslims etc & you're telling me that I should not echo what the scholars have said? They are an absolutely misguided sect, disgusting. I get where you're coming from - but all major scholars, faqeeh and shuyookh have declared them as non-muslims!
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    (Original post by yasmeenak)
    Lol the majority of Islamic Scholars have declared all Isis Supporters & fighters to be non-muslims. They've murdered Non-muslims, and muslims, kept young women as prostitutes, tortured muslims etc & you're telling me that I should not echo what the scholars have said? They are an absolutely misguided sect, disgusting. I get where you're coming from - but all major scholars, faqeeh and shuyookh have declared them as non-muslims!
    I dont care what all major shayks have declared. They are not God, and only God can judge my darling. All major shaykhs also declared Ahamdis as non muslims ,and some even Shias...So much to relying on Shaykhs.,
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    (Original post by Quantex)
    To be fair the vast majority of those actively fighting against and potentially dying to defeat ISIS are Muslim. We should be willing to give them credit as we sit behind our keyboards and expect other people to do the work.
    tis true, daesh has killed more muslims than non-muslims.
 
 
 
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