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    (Original post by yasmeenak)
    Lol the majority of Islamic Scholars have declared all Isis Supporters & fighters to be non-muslims. They've murdered Non-muslims, and muslims, kept young women as prostitutes, tortured muslims etc & you're telling me that I should not echo what the scholars have said? They are an absolutely misguided sect, disgusting. I get where you're coming from - but all major scholars, faqeeh and shuyookh have declared them as non-muslims!


    Right like this one?


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    (Original post by Thus-Spoke-Lara)
    I have a surprise for you, I have read this Surah. I have an even bigger surprise for you, I have actually read the whole Qu'ran too, I have concluded that not only is it not a terrorism manual but that violence is abhorred by the Qu'ran. I can conclude this because I can read.

    I do not know of any other piece of literature where you take one line and decide upon the whole meaning of the book (without reading the rest of it). It's like justifying a surveillance state based on one line for George Orwell's 1984 which reads, "Big Brother is infallible and all-powerful. Every success, every achievement, every victory, every scientific discovery, all knowledge, all wisdom, all happiness, all virtue, are held issue directly from his leadership and inspiration." Now, anyone familiar with the story of 1984 knows that it is a polemic against the surveillance state, but if we do not read the whole story and selectively quote from it, a problem clearly emerges as can be seen in this example.
    Firstly, simply reading the Qur'an without any extensive understanding of Islamic and regional history over the last 13 or so centuries makes your conclusions irrelevant. Secondly, I grant that reading one verse may not allow a rational individual from effectively concluding that the Qur'an as a whole has a meaning. The fact is that it contains a multitude of verses that contradict each other and are often ambiguous. Your average Muslim who may be educated will find it very difficult to understand it; let alone an uneducated, disenfranchised young male from Molenbeek.
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    (Original post by quasa)
    tis true, daesh has killed more muslims than non-muslims.


    They kill Shia muslims.


    Because Sunni wahabbism is the closest Islam to muhammed's Islam.
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    (Original post by Zinan)
    They kill Shia muslims.


    Because Sunni wahabbism is the closest Islam to muhammed's Islam.
    I could have sworn syria is predom sunni
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    (Original post by Maker)
    The fact that the Paris murder suspect was hiding out in the mainly Muslim district of Brussels makes a lot of people think Muslims are either actively hiding terrorists or turning a blind eye to them.

    Could Muslims do more to combat terrorists given the fact all the ISS terrorists are Muslims whatever apologists might say?

    If you are a Muslim and you suspect a friend or family member might be a terrorist, would you tell the authorities or you would turn a blind eye and claim they are not "real" Muslims and therefore none of your business if they blow up non Muslims?
    Muslims have a responsibility to weed out the people who are killing their fellow citizens and innocent bystanders.
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    (Original post by quasa)
    I could have sworn syria is predom sunni


    Syrains aren't the only people they kill.


    Plus the only reason why they kill syrians in great amounts is because their headquarters is in Raqqa, Syria.

    And they needed to dismantle banks, oil fields and police stations to get weapons money and ammunitions.
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    (Original post by Zinan)
    Syrains aren't the only people they kill.


    Plus the only reason why they kill syrians in great amounts is because their headquarters is in Raqqa, Syria.

    And they needed to dismantle banks, oil fields and police stations to get weapons money and ammunitions.
    1st paragraph: I am aware of the situations in iraq and kurdistan as well as daesh targeting europe.

    2nd- not only that, but theyre looting ancient roman / alexandrian places and pawning of their artifacts
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    (Original post by quasa)
    1st paragraph: I am aware of the situations in iraq and kurdistan as well as daesh targeting europe.

    2nd- not only that, but theyre looting ancient roman / alexandrian places and pawning of their artifacts
    Yes they are, they are also using the refugee crisis to import terror into Europe.


    Are we arguing with each other?

    LOL
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    (Original post by Zinan)
    Yes they are, they are also using the refugee crisis to import terror into Europe.


    Are we arguing with each other?

    LOL
    no idea lol, I think we need to join forces and launch kittens upon daeshes backsides (Kittens: the most unassuming predator on the planet)
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    (Original post by quasa)
    no idea lol, I think we need to join forces and launch kittens upon daeshes backsides (Kittens: the most unassuming predator on the planet)


    I would love to see DAESH/ISIS.

    And all their followers exterminated from the face of the Earth.


    But for some reason, casting my justified hate on them publicly will either get me reported, killed or arrested.


    We need to find other outlets to end this disaster.
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    (Original post by Zinan)
    Mate all you did hear was disagree with what I said about Surah 9.

    You haven't disproved my statement with anything. No verses, no statements, no research, no data, no stats, no polls, NOTHING.

    All you did was say " I have concluded that not only is it not a terrorism manual but that violence is abhorred by the Qu'ran."


    What proof do you have to back up this statement because all you've done now is argue based on conjecture.
    I 100% doubt the Qur'an allows terrorism. It allows self-defence so isn't a pacifist religion and defiantly doesn't have to be one to be a religion of peace.
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    Muslims aren't responsible for these terrorists.

    Simple as.

    So we should all be doing something about it.
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    (Original post by Zinan)
    I would love to see DAESH/ISIS.

    And all their followers exterminated from the face of the Earth.


    But for some reason, casting my justified hate on them publicly will either get me reported, killed or arrested.


    We need to find other outlets to end this disaster.
    Id love to get rid of them, just not via killing. deserting them on the pacific garbage plot would be a death sentence without killing them as theyd be forced to fight for themselves in a harsh environment with limited food and water. at the same time, make them clean the place up so its a win win.

    either that or give them the battle royale treatment (except with shock collars vs exploding collars)

    but agreed, there needs to be another outlet for muslims to voice their concerns against daesh
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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    I 100% doubt the Qur'an allows terrorism. It allows self-defence so isn't a pacifist religion and defiantly doesn't have to be one to be a religion of peace.


    Read the final surah and learn something.
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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    I 100% doubt the Qur'an allows terrorism. It allows self-defence so isn't a pacifist religion and defiantly doesn't have to be one to be a religion of peace.
    How can you 100% doubt something.
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    I don't understand this concept. What do you mean can "Muslims" do more, like the word Muslim encompasses one type of person, like we all think, live and share the same opinions.

    People need to stop acting as if this is something a normal everyday Muslim can solve. It requires effort on everyone's behalf. It's not as simple as a bunch of Muslims all banding together shouting "This is wrong" because a lot of Muslims already do that.
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    [QUOTE=Zinan;63646561]
    (Original post by FluffyCherry;63645591 [b)
    Firstly let me remind you that Islam, is a religion of mercy & [/b]does not permit terrorism!!




    You have got to be kidding me.


    Quran 9:5

    Quran 9:29

    Quran 2:191

    "I have been made victorious by allah through TERROR " - Muhammed
    Well first if all you're cherry-picking verses out of the Quran!! :facepalm:
    Critics like you only quote the part which suites them, they isolate previous verses and the ones after. When the passage is examined in context, it is clear that nowhere does it sanction the killing of innocent people.
    • Quran 9:5
    This verse deals specifically with the situation of Meccan polytheists breaking peace treaties and openly declaring war on the Muslim polity.
    The verse, then, commands the Muslim state to take up arms and defend itself against those that breached their covenants and attacked out of treachery.

    This verse was quoted during a battle. ...We know that America was once at war with Vietnam. Suppose the President of America or the General of the American Army told the American soldiers during the war: “Wherever you find the Vietnamese, kill them”.

    Today if I say that the American President said, “Wherever you find Vietnamese, kill them” without giving the context, I will make him sound like a butcher. But if I quote him in context, that he said it during a war, it will sound very logical, as he was trying to boost the morale of the American soldiers during the war. ...

    Similarly in Surah Taubah chapter 9 verse 5 [9:5] the Qur’an says,
    Kill the Mushriqs (pagans) where ever you find them”, during a battle to boost the morale of the Muslim soldiers. What the Qur’an is telling Muslim soldiers is, don’t be afraid during battle; wherever you find the enemies kill them. Surah Taubah chapter 9 verse 6 gives the answer to the allegation that Islam promotes violence, brutality and bloodshed. It says:“If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure that is because they are men without knowledge.” [Al-Qur’an 9:6]

    The verse, therefore, can by no means be generalised to refer to all disbelievers.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    • Quran 9:29
    The verse says “Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued”.

    1. PAYING JIZYA IS THE CONDITION FOR FIGHTING. THIS STATEMENT IS TOTALLY IGNORED OR OVERLOOKED WHEN LEVYING THIS ALLEGATION OF VIOLENCE ON MUSLIMS.

    This verse doesn’t ask the Muslims to do mindless slaughter as the media portrays or deceives. It gives the Muslims the permission to fight only those non-Muslims who do not pay jizya – the state tax. And we all know that jizya is applicable only in an Islamic state. Neither India, nor US or Britain are Islamic states. So to put this verse as an excuse for what happened there only shows how biased, unknowledgable and unfair the media is and it hurts us deeply.I can show whole verses from other scriptures that are truly inhuman, yet no one questions them.

    2. THE VERSE DOES NOT ASK THE MUSLIMS TO DO FORCEFUL CONVERSIONS.

    Again, the verse permits the Muslims to fight the non –Muslims in an Islamic state ONLY and ONLY if they refuse to pay the jizya – Willingly . Re-read the verse from ANY translation if you are not sure. But once they pay the jizya tax they can continue to believe in their atheistic pagan beliefs, but it will be under an Islamic state. You can still forgive them by not forcing them into Islam, nor oppressing them or being bad to them because of their wrong beliefs.

    3. QURAN NEVER SAYS TO KILL THE DISBELIEVERS JUST BECAUSE THEY DISBELIEVE.

    I openly challenge you to show me ONE verse from the Quran which says to kill the disbelievers just because they are disbelievers.
    4. JIZYA ISN’T A RANSOM OR A BAD THING

    Coming back to the verse, now people might say isn’t it unfair that they have to pay the jizya tax? Not really. Since when is punishment for refusal to pay lawful taxes considered as terrorism?
    Also, the jizya tax is very cheap and affordable, and it grants the non-Muslim’s many benefits, benefits which even the Muslims don’t get!
    For instance, the non-Muslims who are paying jizya in an Islamic state are not obliged to take part in any battle or war, unless they themselves choose to, the Muslims do not have this choice. Muslims have to actually protect both Muslims and non-Muslims living in their lands.
    Also if the Islamic state cannot grant protection to the non-Muslims then the non-Muslims are not obliged to pay the jizya tax, since Muslims themselves must meet expectations for the jizya tax to be implemented.
    Also, Society today has no problem in paying taxes to the government, so therefore they should have no problem in paying a tax in an Islamic state either.

    There you go, verse 9:29 doesn’t encourage the Muslims to do terrorism.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    It’s important whenever one reads a Quranic verse, to read it in its context.
    • Quran 2:191
    From verse 2:190 to 2:195, when read, Allah makes it evident to fight those only who fight them, fighting in self-defence.

    These verses were revealed at a time when Muslims of Madinah were under constant attack from the Makkans.

    An example would be when the Makkans conducted the public crucifixion of the companion of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), Khubaib bin Adi. These would be classified as ‘terrorist activities’ according to the modern usage of the term. So what does this verse say in this context?

    “Fight in the cause of God those who fight you”, “unless they (first) fight you there” - the context of this verse applies to those who initiate the attack against Muslims.
    And even after they attack, the verse makes it clear: “But if they cease, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.”

    And it also makes clear the purpose for what Muslims fight: “fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God”. It is the duty of Muslims to defend humanity from oppression and persecution and to establish justice.

    We Muslims believe that God has placed us here on earth as his deputy or viceroy, and thus, it is our duty:
    • to enjoin the good and forbid the evil,
    • to establish peace and justice in the land.
    These verses were applicable to a particular situation or if, hypothetically, the same situation was to be repeated.

    Historically, fighting back against the aggressors was prohibited during the thirteen years of the Meccan period.
    After the migration to Medina and the establishment of the Islamic state, Muslims were concerned with how to defend themselves against aggression from their enemies. The aforementioned verses were revealed to enable them to protect the newly formed state by fighting in self-defence against those who fought them.
    • However, the Qur’an clearly prohibits aggression. The verses explain that fighting is only for self-defence.
    • Thus, a Muslim cannot commit aggression and kill innocent men, women, children, the sick, the elderly, monks, priests, or those who do not wish to fight.
    • A Muslim is also mandated not to destroy plant life of livestock.
    The historical context is something that must always be considered where developing an understanding of Qur’anic verses. Without knowing the circumstances behind the revelation, one cannot apply the verse as accurately.
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    [QUOTE=Zinan;63646561][QUOTE=FluffyCherry;63645591 [b]Firstly let me remind you that Islam, is a religion of mercy & [/b]does not permit terrorism!!




    You have got to be kidding me.


    Quran 9:5

    Quran 9:29

    Quran 2:191

    "I have been made victorious by allah through TERROR " - Muhammed[/QUOTE

    Well clearly you're thick. By giving wrong passages of the quran you have made a biased and wrong interpretation. Be a person to read the qurans meaning and not give utterly wrong passages. Be more educated on a topic you're disregarding. Imbecile.
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    [QUOTE=FluffyCherry;63650259]
    (Original post by Zinan)
    Well first if all you're cherry-picking verses out of the Quran!! :facepalm:
    Critics like you only quote the part which suites them, they isolate previous verses and the ones after. When the passage is examined in context, it is clear that nowhere does it sanction the killing of innocent people.
    • Quran 9:5
    This verse deals specifically with the situation of Meccan polytheists breaking peace treaties and openly declaring war on the Muslim polity.
    The verse, then, commands the Muslim state to take up arms and defend itself against those that breached their covenants and attacked out of treachery.

    This verse was quoted during a battle. ...We know that America was once at war with Vietnam. Suppose the President of America or the General of the American Army told the American soldiers during the war: “Wherever you find the Vietnamese, kill them”.

    Today if I say that the American President said, “Wherever you find Vietnamese, kill them” without giving the context, I will make him sound like a butcher. But if I quote him in context, that he said it during a war, it will sound very logical, as he was trying to boost the morale of the American soldiers during the war. ...

    Similarly in Surah Taubah chapter 9 verse 5 [9:5] the Qur’an says,
    Kill the Mushriqs (pagans) where ever you find them”, during a battle to boost the morale of the Muslim soldiers. What the Qur’an is telling Muslim soldiers is, don’t be afraid during battle; wherever you find the enemies kill them. Surah Taubah chapter 9 verse 6 gives the answer to the allegation that Islam promotes violence, brutality and bloodshed. It says:“If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure that is because they are men without knowledge.” [Al-Qur’an 9:6]

    The verse, therefore, can by no means be generalised to refer to all disbelievers.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    • Quran 9:29
    The verse says “Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued”.

    1. PAYING JIZYA IS THE CONDITION FOR FIGHTING. THIS STATEMENT IS TOTALLY IGNORED OR OVERLOOKED WHEN LEVYING THIS ALLEGATION OF VIOLENCE ON MUSLIMS.

    This verse doesn’t ask the Muslims to do mindless slaughter as the media portrays or deceives. It gives the Muslims the permission to fight only those non-Muslims who do not pay jizya – the state tax. And we all know that jizya is applicable only in an Islamic state. Neither India, nor US or Britain are Islamic states. So to put this verse as an excuse for what happened there only shows how biased, unknowledgable and unfair the media is and it hurts us deeply.I can show whole verses from other scriptures that are truly inhuman, yet no one questions them.

    2. THE VERSE DOES NOT ASK THE MUSLIMS TO DO FORCEFUL CONVERSIONS.

    Again, the verse permits the Muslims to fight the non –Muslims in an Islamic state ONLY and ONLY if they refuse to pay the jizya – Willingly . Re-read the verse from ANY translation if you are not sure. But once they pay the jizya tax they can continue to believe in their atheistic pagan beliefs, but it will be under an Islamic state. You can still forgive them by not forcing them into Islam, nor oppressing them or being bad to them because of their wrong beliefs.

    3. QURAN NEVER SAYS TO KILL THE DISBELIEVERS JUST BECAUSE THEY DISBELIEVE.

    I openly challenge you to show me ONE verse from the Quran which says to kill the disbelievers just because they are disbelievers.
    4. JIZYA ISN’T A RANSOM OR A BAD THING

    Coming back to the verse, now people might say isn’t it unfair that they have to pay the jizya tax? Not really. Since when is punishment for refusal to pay lawful taxes considered as terrorism?
    Also, the jizya tax is very cheap and affordable, and it grants the non-Muslim’s many benefits, benefits which even the Muslims don’t get!
    For instance, the non-Muslims who are paying jizya in an Islamic state are not obliged to take part in any battle or war, unless they themselves choose to, the Muslims do not have this choice. Muslims have to actually protect both Muslims and non-Muslims living in their lands.
    Also if the Islamic state cannot grant protection to the non-Muslims then the non-Muslims are not obliged to pay the jizya tax, since Muslims themselves must meet expectations for the jizya tax to be implemented.
    Also, Society today has no problem in paying taxes to the government, so therefore they should have no problem in paying a tax in an Islamic state either.

    There you go, verse 9:29 doesn’t encourage the Muslims to do terrorism.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    It’s important whenever one reads a Quranic verse, to read it in its context.
    • Quran 2:191
    From verse 2:190 to 2:195, when read, Allah makes it evident to fight those only who fight them, fighting in self-defence.

    These verses were revealed at a time when Muslims of Madinah were under constant attack from the Makkans.

    An example would be when the Makkans conducted the public crucifixion of the companion of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), Khubaib bin Adi. These would be classified as ‘terrorist activities’ according to the modern usage of the term. So what does this verse say in this context?

    “Fight in the cause of God those who fight you”, “unless they (first) fight you there” - the context of this verse applies to those who initiate the attack against Muslims.
    And even after they attack, the verse makes it clear: “But if they cease, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.”

    And it also makes clear the purpose for what Muslims fight: “fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God”. It is the duty of Muslims to defend humanity from oppression and persecution and to establish justice.

    We Muslims believe that God has placed us here on earth as his deputy or viceroy, and thus, it is our duty:
    • to enjoin the good and forbid the evil,
    • to establish peace and justice in the land.
    These verses were applicable to a particular situation or if, hypothetically, the same situation was to be repeated.

    Historically, fighting back against the aggressors was prohibited during the thirteen years of the Meccan period.
    After the migration to Medina and the establishment of the Islamic state, Muslims were concerned with how to defend themselves against aggression from their enemies. The aforementioned verses were revealed to enable them to protect the newly formed state by fighting in self-defence against those who fought them.
    • However, the Qur’an clearly prohibits aggression. The verses explain that fighting is only for self-defence.
    • Thus, a Muslim cannot commit aggression and kill innocent men, women, children, the sick, the elderly, monks, priests, or those who do not wish to fight.
    • A Muslim is also mandated not to destroy plant life of livestock.
    The historical context is something that must always be considered where developing an understanding of Qur’anic verses. Without knowing the circumstances behind the revelation, one cannot apply the verse as accurately.



    Utter and total horse crap, copied from Islamic apologists websites.

    The verses of the Qur'an only turned peaceful at the early stages of Muhammed's preachings. When Muhammed had full control of Mecca and medina the nature of islam changed and turned violent.


    And since we are playing this copy and paste game, why don't you sit down and watch this video and realise that your religion is about as peaceful as your prophet is educated.


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    (Original post by Halal Whoe)
    I dont care what all major shayks have declared. They are not God, and only God can judge my darling. All major shaykhs also declared Ahamdis as non muslims ,and some even Shias...So much to relying on Shaykhs.,
    My "darling" in the quran . "god" and our prophet. Already declared that people of such arent of the ummah. So before you can say only god can judge.we should look amongst eachother and correct one another. The prophet gave a great analogy. "If one part of the body is hurt the whole body will feel it, just like this ummah, we must look after eachother and guide the wrong"
 
 
 
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