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Can you think of any other ideology that has such political protections as Islam? Watch

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    (Original post by Drewski)
    Never heard of the Spanish Inquisition, OP?

    Every religion has had political protection at one time or another.
    OP is clearly talking about the present, in secular countries, not medieval officially Christian countries
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    OP is clearly talking about the present, in secular countries, not medieval officially Christian countries
    This country had Christian-based morality laws - and laws on blasphemy were only repealed in 2008.

    Every religion has had people being picky about it. It's just Islam's turn.
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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    Indonesia is the highest population Muslim country in the world, so surely if all countries with a lot of Muslims were as described, Indonesia would be?

    But it isn't, I've been there and it's a great country. Their military is particularly good because they prevented an ISIS attack earlier this year.

    I think you may have missed my point. My point was that just because some Islamic countries (such as Indonesia) are not theocratic hellholes, it doesn't change the fact that many are. You can't just point to Indonesia and say "well they're OK, so that means all Islamic countries are OK and Islam causes no problems in any of them". That's some of the worst reasoning I've ever heard. In fact, it's precisely the countries where Islam has the most sway in politics which are most troubled, conservative or intolerant. Most Muslims in Indonesia are very moderate, but unsurprisingly the countries where the population follows Islam more strictly are much more messed up. If a country gets more unethical and more troubled the more people adhere to a certain ideology, then that ideology probably isn't great.

    As an aside, it's worth mentioning Indonesia still has it's problems. I urge you to watch a film called The Act of Killing, and it's sequel, The Look of Silence. They're about the anti-communist purge in the 1960s. Millions of suspected communists (most of them just ordinary people) were murdered, under the orders of politicians. This is something the media and government still praises as a good thing. Nothing to do with Islam of course. But do you know how many of the killers and politicians justify the killings? They say the victims were unbelievers, godless people. So don't pretend that Indonesia is some kind of Islamic paradise.

    (Original post by Drewski)
    Never heard of the Spanish Inquisition, OP?

    Every religion has had political protection at one time or another.
    What's your point? Are you trying to justify this by comparing it to the Spanish Inquisition?
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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    I think you may have missed my point. My point was that just because some Islamic countries (such as Indonesia) are not theocratic hellholes, it doesn't change the fact that many are. You can't just point to Indonesia and say "well they're OK, so that means all Islamic countries are OK and Islam causes no problems in any of them". That's some of the worst reasoning I've ever heard. In fact, it's precisely the countries where Islam has the most sway in politics which are most troubled, conservative or intolerant. Most Muslims in Indonesia are very moderate, but unsurprisingly the countries where the population follows Islam more strictly are much more messed up. If a country gets more unethical and more troubled the more people adhere to a certain ideology, then that ideology probably isn't great.

    As an aside, it's worth mentioning Indonesia still has it's problems. I urge you to watch a film called The Act of Killing, and it's sequel, The Look of Silence. They're about the anti-communist purge in the 1960s. Millions of suspected communists (most of them just ordinary people) were murdered, under the orders of politicians. This is something the media and government still praises as a good thing. Nothing to do with Islam of course. But do you know how many of the killers and politicians justify the killings? They say the victims were unbelievers, godless people. So don't pretend that Indonesia is some kind of Islamic paradise.



    What's your point? Are you trying to justify this by comparing it to the Spanish Inquisition?
    The cause of these 'hellholes' isn't solely Islam. Evidently many Muslim governments do work, the difference is that the Middle Eastern countries have more corruption, the source of this corruption isn't Islam alone. While strict followings of ancient versions of Islam may contribute as it satisfies their methods of oppression, there are many other causes.

    The fact that there are democratic Muslim governments, like the one which existed in Tunisia recently, shows that Islam is not the sole cause of the problems in these countries.
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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    What's your point?
    That the notion that no other religion has or has ever had protection is erroneous at best, or just sheer willful ignorance at worst.

    Though I guess this is TSR, after all.
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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    You're lying. You're making assumptions about the majority of the population from what is evidently a skim-surface read of the place.

    I won't lie to you though, I was intimidated in Istanbul and Marrakech, they have a slightly aggressive selling-style on the streets - but don't confuse that with terrorism.
    Quite the accusation to say I'm lying. You asked for anecdotal evidence, I gave it to you.

    But if you want objective evidence then there's plenty.

    Look at the petty battle between Morocco and Algeria over who can build the biggest mosque.

    Look at the polls carried out by the PEW research centre

    Look at which countries criminalise apostasy

    Look at the reaction to Rushdie's Satanic verses and to the Danish cartoonists.

    There is plenty of clear evidence for what I'm saying.
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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    Have you ever been to a predominantly Muslim country, and mixed with the locals? It's not the authoritarian terrorist stronghold you think it is.
    I would very much like to visit e.g. the Caliphate, and check if all the reports which put it in a terrible light are correct

    however, over the years, I have grown very attached to my head
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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    The cause of these 'hellholes' isn't solely Islam. Evidently many Muslim governments do work, the difference is that the Middle Eastern countries have more corruption, the source of this corruption isn't Islam alone. While strict followings of ancient versions of Islam may contribute as it satisfies their methods of oppression, there are many other causes.

    The fact that there are democratic Muslim governments, like the one which existed in Tunisia recently, shows that Islam is not the sole cause of the problems in these countries.
    Obviously it's more complex than simply Islam. But forget about corruption for a second. It isn't corruption that makes the law in KSA, Iran, Somalia, Sudan, Mauritania and Qatar state that homosexuals may be put to death. Tunisia is a great exception. But it is just that, an exception, the only democracy in the Arab world. And you can still get 3yrs in prison for committing sodomy in your own home, so it's still a pretty messed up country. Unless of course you support that kind of thing.
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    Interesting question. The answer is, there isn't.

    Much like other "oppressed" minorities such as women, [strike] gay men [/s] and gay women, transexuals and black people, Islam/muslims are under protection from the SJW crowd.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    This country had Christian-based morality laws - and laws on blasphemy were only repealed in 2008.

    Every religion has had people being picky about it. It's just Islam's turn.
    Good lord.


    What sort of things could you have been prosecuted for?
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    (Original post by tengentoppa)
    Quite the accusation to say I'm lying. You asked for anecdotal evidence, I gave it to you.

    But if you want objective evidence then there's plenty.

    Look at the petty battle between Morocco and Algeria over who can build the biggest mosque.

    Look at the polls carried out by the PEW research centre

    Look at which countries criminalise apostasy

    Look at the reaction to Rushdie's Satanic verses and to the Danish cartoonists.

    There is plenty of clear evidence for what I'm saying.
    I see nothing wrong with competing in building a bigger Mosque, given that the west has a vast history of having 'petty battles' over having the largest navy, having the largest army, having the most land. And this sort of stuff happens even now, with Putin in Ukraine, etc.

    The polls carried out by PEW research don't really tell you anything. Having a favourable view of ISIS doesn't tell you much. These people majorly consist of those who are living in countries which are suffering from American interventionism and also from Assad's corruption. ISIS are anti-Assad and anti-USA, so having a favourable view doesn't mean they have sympathetic views, it could just as easily mean that they like ISIS because they are the only ones standing up to long-term corruption. I'm not saying it doesn't mean that they don't have sympathetic views, but I'm saying the PEW research poll does not indicate that x Muslims sympathise with ISIS, nor does it suggest that x Muslims would willingly wage jihad against western citizens. As for the poll which talks about thinking suicide bombing is justified, these people have been brought up in politically destructive times with suicide bombings happening every day, with severe conflict going on and on between different interpretations of Islam or other religious or racial differences. Those thinking suicide bombing is justified is likely to have been catalysed by the fact that these people are used to conflict, they see suicide bombings or attacks happening as a result of corruption and warfare very often indeed. I would not make the stupid assumption to attribute a justification in suicide attacks to sympathy of ISIS or willingness to wage jihad.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    That the notion that no other religion has or has ever had protection is erroneous at best, or just sheer willful ignorance at worst.

    Though I guess this is TSR, after all.
    Clearly talking about the present, and within this country, hope you're entertaining yourself with fighting that straw man though.
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    (Original post by Slutty Salafi)
    What sort of things could you have been prosecuted for?
    it wasn't really enforced for many decades prior to its official abolition tbf
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    I suppose democracy is a similarly protected ideology, if you can call it an ideology. E.g. political parties that are against democracy are banned in some countries such as Germany .
    Such as? And are they banned purely because they oppose democracy (although I'm not sure how these parties can be 'political' if they reject democracy)?
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    (Original post by Christ Redeems)
    Such as? And are they banned purely because they oppose democracy (although I'm not sure how these parties can be 'political' if they reject democracy)?
    Yes; for a political party to be allowed in Germany, it must have a democratic ideology

    Of course political parties exist that reject democracy; its ridiculous to think democracy is the only possible political system.
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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    Can you think of any other ideology where there is a highly defamatory neologism for anyone who criticizes or insults people for following it? If you are labelled an "Islamophobe" you may lose your job, be socially outcast, or you may even face legal action as "Islamophobia" is often considered hate speech.

    There's no Hinduphobia, Buddhophobia, or Christianophobia. Only Islamophobia.

    There's antisemitism, but that usually describes someone who is prejudiced against people of a particular lineage, something which said people have no choice in and can't change, so it's justifiable to compare it to racism. Being Islamophobic is just disliking people for their ideas and views, something which everyone does all the time, accept for with Muslims, when it is considered immoral and even potentially illegal.
    Communism??
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    (Original post by john2054)
    Communism??
    Pretty sure communism is almost the opposite of being protected.
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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    Pretty sure communism is almost the opposite of being protected.
    Marxism then?
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    (Original post by john2054)
    Marxism then?
    Pretty sure that isn't protected either.
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    Name one "special protection" which Islam gets in this country and which other religions don't get.
 
 
 
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