Atheists, do you believe that god doesn't exist?

saully

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See poll. Explain if you can on your choice. Thanks!

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claireestelle

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Atheists are normally 100% on it and if you re unsure you might identify as being agnostic instead.

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saully

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(Original post by claireestelle)
Atheists are normally 100% on it and if you re unsure you might identify as being agnostic instead.

I don't think the two positions are mutually exclusive. I think you can both not believe in any god and at the same time not be 100% certain of its non-existence or even claim to have any knowledge either way. Most atheists I know identify as agnostic-atheist for this reason.

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XOR_

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I can't give 100% certainty though I consider the possibility to be extremely low.

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Ascend

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To me, 100% certainty in just about anything doesn't really make sense. I think that we should always have an element of doubt and be relatively open to different possibilities, especially when there is no 'hard proof' or indisputable evidence.

As for the existence of gods, I would treat each claim (they often differ) on its own merits or lack thereof. From what I have come to find out about the most popular and controversial ones in the West, specifically the Abrahamic religions, I would say that not only is there natural evidence that contradicts the scriptural claims but the scriptures themselves tend to have many internal contradictions and inconsistencies. For those gods, I'm in the "very likely not to exist" camp.

The vaguer or the more modernist the claims get i.e. relying on the current gaps of our secular knowledge, the less certain we can be on their likelihood. But it seems that the gaps are shrinking significantly by each passing century.

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troubadour.

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(Original post by claireestelle)
Atheists are normally 100% on it and if you re unsure you might identify as being agnostic instead.

I don't think that this is true. So-called strong atheism is relatively rare in my experience, and most atheists tend to call themselves this because of how poorly understood agnosticism is -- it's not difficult to find people who think that agnostics think it's a 50/50 probability, whereas it's probably closer to 99 percent certainty for many people who are technically agnostics, making identifying as an atheist a better choice for most intents and purposes.

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claireestelle

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(Original post by Hydeman)
I don't think that this is true. So-called strong atheism is relatively rare in my experience, and most atheists tend to call themselves this because of how poorly understood agnosticism is (it's not difficult to find people who think that agnostics think it's a 50/50 probability, whereas it's probably closer to 99 percent certainty for many people who are technically agnostics, making identifying as an atheist a better choice for day-to-day purposes).

I see your point

I would definetly identify as being a strong atheist myself.

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Ascend

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(Original post by Hydeman)
it's probably closer to 99 percent certainty for many people who are technically agnostics, making identifying as an atheist a better choice for most intents and purposes.

Pragnostics :ahee:

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(Original post by FiniteMr)
I have a new atheist term: This one's for people who don't actively believe in god (atheist), don't think it's possible to have absolute knowledge either way (agnostic), but to all intents and purposes lends their views, beliefs and actions to the side that there is no god (pragmatic atheist). An agnostic, pragmatic atheist.

Of course this shortens nicely to "Pragnostic atheist".

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hezzlington

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I am 99% sure there is no God. Just as I am 99% sure I will not win the lottery ten times in a row. It could happen, but the probability is so low I might as well accept it's 100% certainty.

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Llamageddon

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I'm an apatheist. Why disbelieve when you can simply not care?

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TorpidPhil

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(Original post by claireestelle)
Atheists are normally 100% on it and if you re unsure you might identify as being agnostic instead.

That's a massive over simplification and frankly just wrong.

All agnostics are actually atheists but not all atheists are agnostics.

Agnosticism is an epistemic claim. Atheism is a meta-physical one.

Agnosticism = We cannot gain knowledge about God. One would imagine that if one thinks we cannot gain knowledge about something then one would believe it to not exist. It is possible for someone to be an agnostic theist, but this is very rare as it is frankly an absurd belief.

Atheism = God doesn't exist. Strength of the belief is irrelevant. It's just the general belief that God doesn't exist whether someone is certain in the truth of that belief or actually very unsure. Hence these people who call themselves agnostic when all they mean is that they are not sure whether or not God exists or not are actually atheists and not agnostics at all - they often say there's reasons to believe and not believe, hence they think we can know stuff about God.

P.S I am a strong atheist (read; certain) concerning the abrahamic God and a weak atheist (read; doesn't believe in albeit not with certainty but probabilistic knowledge) concerning other deities.

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TorpidPhil

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(Original post by Llamageddon)
I'm an apatheist. Why disbelieve when you can simply not care?

Why are you getting upvoted... What a ridiculous and infantile thing to say.

Why should you disbelieve when you can simply not care? Uhhh, because that's the truth of the world? Quite frankly by not giving a damn you automatically are disbelieving in God. Because if someone asks you "Yo, bruv, is God real?" and you say you don't give a ****, well ****, that means you don't believe in God, hence you're an atheist, albeit a specific type of atheist... an apatheist...

Which is intellectually lazy ****. You're as bad as the religious person who has faith. Those who say - "Why not believe in God when everyone you love around you does and he's such a wonderful character and believing in him might help us?"

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StrawbAri

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(Original post by TorpidPhil)
That's a massive over simplification and frankly just wrong.

All agnostics are actually atheists but not all atheists are agnostics.

Agnosticism is an epistemic claim. Atheism is a meta-physical one.

Agnosticism = We cannot gain knowledge about God. One would imagine that if one thinks we cannot gain knowledge about something then one would believe it to not exist. It is possible for someone to be a gnostic theist, but this is very rare as it is frankly an absurd belief.

Atheism = God doesn't exist. Strength of the belief is irrelevant. It's just the general belief that God doesn't exist whether someone is certain in the truth of that belief or actually very unsure. Hence these people who call themselves agnostic when all they mean is that they are not sure whether or not God exists or not are actually atheists and not agnostics at all - they often say there's reasons to believe and not believe, hence they think we can know stuff about God.

P.S I am a strong atheist (read; certain) concerning the abrahamic God and a weak atheist (read; doesn't believe in albeit not with certainty but probabilistic knowledge) concerning other deities.

Where were you when all those quasi philosophers where arguing with me about the fact that agnosticism and atheism aren't mutually exclusive :lol:

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TorpidPhil

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(Original post by StrawbAri)
Where were you when all those quasi philosophers where arguing with me about the fact that agnosticism and atheism aren't mutually exclusive :lol:

Ugh. It's a bit of a pet hate of mine because I have no idea where this notion of agnosticism being this super intelligent, very smart, alternative to atheism came from.

It just reeks of scientism and special-snowflakism which I suppose is apt of most post-modern beliefs held by lay people concerning either science or philosophy. Frankly too, it undermines secular power within politics and society. And that pisses me off because I don't like religious influence in society one little bit. I hate religious influence on morality and thereby law for example...

That said and emotions out of the way, hope you're doing well Strawbs, not spoke to you in ages! Wish I could catch up with you more, however I'm actually off in 10mins to get ready for a door supervision exam I need to take because I want a SIA license

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StrawbAri

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(Original post by TorpidPhil)
Ugh. It's a bit of a pet hate of mine because I have no idea where this notion of agnosticism being this super intelligent, very smart, alternative to atheism came from.

It just reeks of scientism and special-snowflakism which I suppose is apt of most post-modern beliefs held by lay people concerning either science or philosophy. Frankly too, it undermines secular power within politics and society. And that pisses me off because I don't like religious influence in society one little bit. I hate religious influence on morality and thereby law for example...

That said and emotions out of the way, hope you're doing well Strawbs, not spoke to you in ages! Wish I could catch up with you more, however I'm actually off in 10mins to get ready for a door supervision exam I need to take because I want a SIA license

Yes exactly! But apparently a bunch of 'relevant philosophers' on reddit say that it's a third option to athiesm and that renders false the opinion of many notable atheists (Bertrand Russel and Antony Flew for example) and many other atheist bloggers completely wrong.
Even if it is a third option, like Richard Dawkins, I just think it's sanctimonious fence sitting.

Yeah

okay I'll pm you a little later

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Llamageddon

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(Original post by TorpidPhil)
Why are you getting upvoted... What a ridiculous and infantile thing to say.

how is it? The question is just very uninteresting. What is the point of asking a question you can't find the answer to? It's not maths, it's not philosophy, there's no light at the end of this tunnel. You won't find truth asking it, nor come across new ways of thinking. if you genuinely seek knowledge then here's a tip for you:

Look in places where you might actually find it.

its not intellectually lazy. It's intellectually efficient. There are so many more interesting things out there to have an opinion on.

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TheThiefOfBagdad

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Strong theist. 100 per cent probability of God. In the words of C.G. Jung: "I do not believe, I know."
De facto theist. Very high probability but short of 100 per cent. "I don't know for certain, but I strongly believe in God and live my life on the assumption that he is there."
Leaning towards theism. Higher than 50 per cent but not very high. "I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God."
Completely impartial. Exactly 50 per cent. "God's existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable."
Leaning towards atheism. Lower than 50 per cent but not very low. "I do not know whether God exists but I'm inclined to be skeptical."
De facto atheist. Very low probability, but short of zero. "I don't know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there."
Strong atheist. "I know there is no God, with the same conviction as Jung knows there is one."

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hezzlington

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(Original post by TorpidPhil)
Why are you getting upvoted... What a ridiculous and infantile thing to say.

Why should you disbelieve when you can simply not care? Uhhh, because that's the truth of the world? Quite frankly by not giving a damn you automatically are disbelieving in God. Because if someone asks you "Yo, bruv, is God real?" and you say you don't give a ****, well ****, that means you don't believe in God, hence you're an atheist, albeit a specific type of atheist... an apatheist...

Which is intellectually lazy ****. You're as bad as the religious person who has faith. Those who say - "Why not believe in God when everyone you love around you does and he's such a wonderful character and believing in him might help us?"

Why are you being so harsh?

I upvoted, I found it quite amusing and when I thought about it, I actually agree. Questioning whether there is a God or not does not deserve my time and effort. Questioning why people choose to believe is far more fascinating.

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TurboCretin

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(Original post by TorpidPhil)
That's a massive over simplification and frankly just wrong.

All agnostics are actually atheists but not all atheists are agnostics.

Agnosticism is an epistemic claim. Atheism is a meta-physical one.

Agnosticism = We cannot gain knowledge about God. One would imagine that if one thinks we cannot gain knowledge about something then one would believe it to not exist. It is possible for someone to be an agnostic theist, but this is very rare as it is frankly an absurd belief.

Atheism = God doesn't exist. Strength of the belief is irrelevant. It's just the general belief that God doesn't exist whether someone is certain in the truth of that belief or actually very unsure. Hence these people who call themselves agnostic when all they mean is that they are not sure whether or not God exists or not are actually atheists and not agnostics at all - they often say there's reasons to believe and not believe, hence they think we can know stuff about God.

P.S I am a strong atheist (read; certain) concerning the abrahamic God and a weak atheist (read; doesn't believe in albeit not with certainty but probabilistic knowledge) concerning other deities.

This post has me confused.

You say all agnostics are atheists, but that it's possible for theists to be agnostic. That seems contradictory.

You also say that atheism is the belief that there is no God. I'm not sure where that leaves agnostic atheists. You go on to say that people who call themselves agnostics simply because they're unsure whether God exists are actually atheists, and not agnostics, as they must have a belief that God doesn't exist. But it's unclear to me why the two should be mutually exclusive.

Atheism is a position with respect to belief. Agnosticism is a position with respect to knowledge. They are connected, but you seem to be conflating them.

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username1862217

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As an atheist I personally don't believe God exists and I don't believe we will ever find evidence of his/her/its existence/s. But I am still open to any new theories or evidence that people find that seemingly prove God exists.

So technically I am 100% sure God doesn't exist, but at the same time completely open to new ideas.

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