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    You've just proven my point, well done.
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    (Original post by mkap)
    Seriously why do people don't think Muslims don't do enough about ISIS? you just think that we sit back and watch the news and agree with ISIS 100%. well guess what we don't.

    Majority of Muslims don't agree with ISIS and their dumb extreme actions does affect us Muslims. We cant even get on buses or public transport without people looking at us in disgust or verbally abuse us and act like we are the ones who go blowing up people.

    Even an American school nearby in Jeddah has got an ISIS threat just because its American and the population of the school is majority Muslim. Literally everyone hates our religion now and attacks it constantly.

    So i ask you what can Muslims do apart from educate our Muslim community. its not like we can all hold hands and go to Syria and knock em all out.

    Do you really think that if we knew someone who had terrorist ideologies we would just let them walk free, no because Muslims get killed too and at the end of the day its innocent human life that is killed whether a person is Muslim or not.

    /rant over :getmecoat:
    Because there so many examples of crowded mosques hanging on to the word of hate preachers yet zero condemnation by its members or the further muslim community

    Because so many muslims have similar ideological views as extremist jihadis

    Because every single time some Muslims dissapear to join ISIS, or commit an act of terrorism, every single person from the family under the same roof to the local mosque and friends say "They had NOOO IDEAA" . Utter claptrap



    Now admittedly, its hard to know how many muslims DO out suspected terrorists but the question is why do people think muslims could do more and the answer is simply because so many of them have been exposed by their sympathetic stance to terrorists aims and intolerant ideas which makes it clear to see why they protected terrorists and extremists or because like the family above, their own bull **** lies have been exposed
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    (Original post by Achaea)
    Stop pretending that Islamic State 'has nothing to do with Islam'

    Stop pretending that any Muslims who commit acts of violence or terrorism are 'not real Muslims'

    Stop pretending that Islam is only a religion of peace and love and tolerance and that people who kill in its name are not getting their justifications from Islamic scripture

    Stop misquoting the quran and pretending that it says 'killing one person is like killing all of humanity'

    Stop acting as though their main priority after every single act of terror or violence committed by Muslims is to shield Islam from any and all criticism

    Stop worrying that the murder of human beings is going to 'make Islam look bad'

    Stop pretending that acts of violence and terror committed by Muslims are 'false flag' operations and a Zionist/CIA/whatever conspiracy to 'make Islam look bad'

    Stop wallowing in self-pity, victimhood and grievance and admit that there are problems within Islam and how some Muslims interpret it.
    Oh yeah and this. The biggest one being this twisted and disgusting victim complex muslims have and this whole islamophobia thing. When anti islam people are blowing up mosques every month because they dislike muslims, you can have some pity... but until then, read and understand the above post
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    (Original post by NickLCFC)
    I agree with you OP except I would have to say that the number of Muslims that hold favourable opinions of ISIS is quite alarming. For example a poll carried out by Pew Research:



    Admittedly, it is a small percentage of people that hold favourable views towards ISIS, but when you break down the numbers:

    (6.5 million * 0.03) = 19500 (Jordan)
    (~1.7 million * 0.06) = 102,000 (Palestine)
    (250 million * 0.04) = 10,000,000 (Indonesia)
    (75 million * 0.08) = 6,000,000 (Turkey)
    (173 million * 0.14) = 24,220,000 (Nigeria)
    (17 million * 0.08) = 1,360,000 (Burkina Faso)
    (30 million * 0.11) = 3,300,000 (Malaysia)
    (14 million * 0.11) = 1,540,000 (Senegal)
    (182 million * 0.09) = 16,380,000 (Pakistan)

    It comes out at 62,921,500 ISIS 'supporters' from this selection of 12 countries as well as a huge amount of people that 'don't know'. Bare in mind this is just a poll from 12 countries and I would say there is worrying number of Muslims that have a favourable views towards ISIS.
    .
    Before you question this poll, read this:
    Spoiler:
    Show
    Pew Research are a professional and reliable polling organisation so their results are very accurate. If you have any doubts about their polling methods, feel free to read up on their methodology (http://www.pewglobal.org/internation...ar_select=2015). On that link it will tell also tell you the margin of error for each country they carried out polls for in the their Spring 2015 surveys. They all have around a 3.0-5.0% margin of error. (E.g. polls in Indonesia have a 4.0% margin of error).
    Fantastic post!. I would watch your back if you live in Leicester
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    (Original post by NickLCFC)
    I agree with you OP except I would have to say that the number of Muslims that hold favourable opinions of ISIS is quite alarming. For example a poll carried out by Pew Research:



    Admittedly, it is a small percentage of people that hold favourable views towards ISIS, but when you break down the numbers:

    (6.5 million * 0.03) = 19500 (Jordan)
    (~1.7 million * 0.06) = 102,000 (Palestine)
    (250 million * 0.04) = 10,000,000 (Indonesia)
    (75 million * 0.08) = 6,000,000 (Turkey)
    (173 million * 0.14) = 24,220,000 (Nigeria)
    (17 million * 0.08) = 1,360,000 (Burkina Faso)
    (30 million * 0.11) = 3,300,000 (Malaysia)
    (14 million * 0.11) = 1,540,000 (Senegal)
    (182 million * 0.09) = 16,380,000 (Pakistan)

    It comes out at 62,921,500 ISIS 'supporters' from this selection of 12 countries as well as a huge amount of people that 'don't know'. Bare in mind this is just a poll from 12 countries and I would say there is worrying number of Muslims that have a favourable views towards ISIS.
    .
    Before you question this poll, read this:
    Spoiler:
    Show
    Pew Research are a professional and reliable polling organisation so their results are very accurate. If you have any doubts about their polling methods, feel free to read up on their methodology (http://www.pewglobal.org/internation...ar_select=2015). On that link it will tell also tell you the margin of error for each country they carried out polls for in the their Spring 2015 surveys. They all have around a 3.0-5.0% margin of error. (E.g. polls in Indonesia have a 4.0% margin of error).
    Having a favourable view of ISIS =/= supporting ISIS.

    There are many reasons as to why a Muslim in one of these countries may view ISIS favourably. ISIS is anti-USA and anti-west, some Muslims have been living in war-torn countries as a result of American or western intervention. ISIS openly critical of the USA, and this may be why someone might see ISIS as favourable. A further reason is because they are fighting against Assad - who many see as the source of the problem in Syria, who has caused the war and has killed many of his own people. People may view ISIS favourably because they oppose this dictator. Furthermore ISIS are manipulators and use social media to promote their cause, some of these Muslims living in poor parts of the country may not actually have a full view of what ISIS is doing in Syria or Iraq, given that their propaganda often appears everywhere - it is very easy to understand why someone with limited awareness may be favourable of them. They are also exploiting the Sunni-Shia divide and that could be another reason why someone favours them.

    But be very careful to call these people ISIS supporters, having a good view of ISIS does not mean that they are a) ISIS supporters, b) willing to join them ISIS or c) are extremists.

    I would be afraid if I saw a poll which asked "would you be willing to wage jihad in the defence of Islam?"
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    (Original post by mkap)
    Seriously why do people don't think Muslims don't do enough about ISIS?
    Because the organisation has gone from strength to strength in/among Muslim territories/communities

    We cant even get on buses or public transport without people looking at us in disgust or verbally abuse us
    Has this happened to you personally?

    So i ask you what can Muslims do apart from educate our Muslim community
    • Push for Islam's 'reformation' or renounce the violent, divisive, and oppressive ideology, if practical (e.g. safe)
    • Vehemently protest any acts of violence perpetrated by Muslims/in your name
    • Put pressure on those who fail to do these things
    • Integrate and engage more with society
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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    Having a favourable view of ISIS =/= supporting ISIS.

    There are many reasons as to why a Muslim in one of these countries may view ISIS favourably. ISIS is anti-USA and anti-west, some Muslims have been living in war-torn countries as a result of American or western intervention. ISIS openly critical of the USA, and this may be why someone might see ISIS as favourable. A further reason is because they are fighting against Assad - who many see as the source of the problem in Syria, who has caused the war and has killed many of his own people. People may view ISIS favourably because they oppose this dictator. Furthermore ISIS are manipulators and use social media to promote their cause, some of these Muslims living in poor parts of the country may not actually have a full view of what ISIS is doing in Syria or Iraq, given that their propaganda often appears everywhere - it is very easy to understand why someone with limited awareness may be favourable of them. They are also exploiting the Sunni-Shia divide and that could be another reason why someone favours them.

    But be very careful to call these people ISIS supporters, having a good view of ISIS does not mean that they are a) ISIS supporters, b) willing to join them ISIS or c) are extremists.

    I would be afraid if I saw a poll which asked "would you be willing to wage jihad in the defence of Islam?"
    Hence why I put 'supporters' in quotation marks. You try and justify reasons why they have favourable opinions but these people know exactly what ISIS are, what they do and how they do it. To most people, this number of people having a favourable opinion of ISIS is worrying regardless but I'll let people decide that for themselves
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    (Original post by Achaea)
    Can you explain where you got this bizarre idea that 'atheists cannot criticise someone else's morality'?
    Well if it's subjective then who are you to criticize someone else's morality.
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    (Original post by mkap)
    Seriously why do people don't think Muslims don't do enough about ISIS? .:getmecoat:

    There are collective social responsibilities that groups and induviduals within these groups have to accept when they propagate a religion.

    Your ideas do not exist in a vacuum, they affect everyone. ISIS and any of the other 100+ Islamic terror groups are killing in the name of a religion Muslims propogate, it's not some fringe minority that believes Islam calls for violence. Every survey and poll show that this is a main stream interpretation of the book that all Muslims propogate. So all Muslims are equally culpable, in my eyes anyway.

    You asked, I answered.
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    (Original post by mil88)
    Well if it's subjective then who are you to criticize someone else's morality.
    Anyone has a right to criticise anyone else's morality. The Aztecs found it moral to sacrifice people to their gods, and I think that deserves criticism, for instance.

    In modern times there are people around the world, some Moslems included, who think it is moral to have multiple wives, while not allowing women to have multiple husbands. Most people in the UK would disagree with that and criticise it. There are people who think it OK to hold slaves, even in this day and age. Most people would criticise that idea of morality, and rightly in my view.

    Why do you think people's morals are immune from criticism?

    I'm not sure why you think morality being subjective is relevant.
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    (Original post by mil88)
    Also, I would like evidence for your claims made, if that's not too much to ask.
    Islam's misogyny, support for capturing slaves, waging war on unbelievers and so on are all clearly described in the Koran and hadiths.
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    (Original post by OneTwoRangi)
    Islam does NOT allow the killing of others. It's a blatant violation.
    Have you actually read the Koran (in a language you can understand), or are you merely believing what an imam has told you?
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    Hatred is as blind as love.

    Meaning

    A person who feels hatred does not see any qualities in the person he/she hates.

    ======

    So people who hate Islam don't see any qualities in Islam or Muslims. Don't waste your time talking to those people.

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    (Original post by skunkboy)
    So people who hate Islam don't see any qualities in Islam or Muslims.
    This is obvious nonsense. Hatred of Islam is not the same as hatred of Moslems.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    This is obvious nonsense. Hatred of Islam is not the same as hatred of Moslems.
    Its stupid to hate Islam. The religion is 1.5 millennia old, back then religion drove society - so any 'apostates' or anyone opposing Islam was opposing the nations which existed in the Middle East back then. Any mention of violence was written for an audience 1500 years ago, back when the people of the world didn't have any certainty about their lives, when they had shorter lives, worse technology and poorer quality of life.

    The world has changed, Muslims have moved on and 1.6 billion of them are reasonable people and follow Islam while exercising its compatibility with the modern world.

    So you're not justified in hating Islam in a modern context, it has moved on. It's just there are a bunch of murderers/terrorists who claim to follow Islam that have extremist interpretations - while they may follow some parts of the Quran to the word, it is quite evident that they do not follow it all - the Quran condemns killing civilians, it condemns killing female or child hostages, it condemns using fear / terror for political gains, it condemns pretty much all of the terrorists actions apart from the ones which help their propaganda movement. If you want to bring the few corrupt Muslim governments in the world, then the sole factor in causing this corruption is not Islam, given that so many governments worldwide consist of Muslims, which aren't as corrupt as some.

    Islam is peaceful, and if it in any way implies that its not peaceful is because 1.5 millennia ago, when Islam (a particularly political religion) drove society, violence against those who threatened Islam and by definition their society was sometimes justified.

    Personally, I think your 'I'm not hating Muslims, I'm hating Islam' is just your childish way of trying to flip around the argument.
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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    The world has changed, Muslims have moved on and 1.6 billion of them are reasonable people and follow Islam while exercising its compatibility with the modern world.
    Evidence?
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    (Original post by Farm_Ecology)
    Evidence?
    Why should I link you any evidence given your aggressive, oppressive and strictly biased anti-Muslim / anti-Islam track record from your discussions here? It should be obvious that 1.6 billion Muslims aren't terrorists.
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    (Original post by NickLCFC)
    I agree with you OP except I would have to say that the number of Muslims that hold favourable opinions of ISIS is quite alarming. For example a poll carried out by Pew Research:



    Admittedly, it is a small percentage of people that hold favourable views towards ISIS, but when you break down the numbers:

    (6.5 million * 0.03) = 19500 (Jordan)
    (~1.7 million * 0.06) = 102,000 (Palestine)
    (250 million * 0.04) = 10,000,000 (Indonesia)
    (75 million * 0.08) = 6,000,000 (Turkey)
    (173 million * 0.14) = 24,220,000 (Nigeria)
    (17 million * 0.08) = 1,360,000 (Burkina Faso)
    (30 million * 0.11) = 3,300,000 (Malaysia)
    (14 million * 0.11) = 1,540,000 (Senegal)
    (182 million * 0.09) = 16,380,000 (Pakistan)

    It comes out at 62,921,500 ISIS 'supporters' from this selection of 12 countries as well as a huge amount of people that 'don't know'. Bare in mind this is just a poll from 12 countries and I would say there is worrying number of Muslims that have a favourable views towards ISIS.
    .
    Before you question this poll, read this:
    Spoiler:
    Show
    Pew Research are a professional and reliable polling organisation so their results are very accurate. If you have any doubts about their polling methods, feel free to read up on their methodology (http://www.pewglobal.org/internation...ar_select=2015). On that link it will tell also tell you the margin of error for each country they carried out polls for in the their Spring 2015 surveys. They all have around a 3.0-5.0% margin of error. (E.g. polls in Indonesia have a 4.0% margin of error).
    I think this provides a false narrative of the problem, ISIS is but one representation of the issue. I would dare say many of the people that don't hold favourable views towards ISIS in Pakistan or Lebanon or Nigeria would hold favourable views to an equally destructive religiously motivated Islamic group. Like Boko-Haram, or Hezbolla etc.
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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    Why should I link you any evidence given your aggressive, oppressive and strictly biased anti-Muslim / anti-Islam track record from your discussions here? It should be obvious that 1.6 billion Muslims aren't terrorists.
    1) Why is my discussion history relevant?
    2) When have I ever been aggressive or oppressive?

    If you're going to make a claim about 1.6 billion people, you should back it up with some kind of evidence. A personal attack is not evidence.
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    (Original post by Farm_Ecology)
    1) Why is my discussion history relevant?
    2) When have I ever been aggressive or oppressive?

    If you're going to make a claim about 1.6 billion people, you should back it up with some kind of evidence. A personal attack is not evidence.
    Because I have reason to suspect that no matter what I show you, you'll dismiss it with a strict anti-Islam agenda. And you have to me within the last week. Come on.

    You also ignore sources, you claim outright that ISIS does not want us to hate Muslims, when that is evidently their goal through these attacks.

    therefore, why should I find a source to prove that 1.6 billion Muslims aren't terrorists?

    Why don't you find a source that suggests that they are?

    You're pretty much doing the equivalent of asking me a source that says the world is round.
 
 
 
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