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50 people dead in Pakistan after ISLAMIC terror attack watch

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    1. The targets were CHRISTIANS so thats why this was in the news, many attacks happen targetting MUSLIMS and they dont get a decent mention

    2. Christianity has been used to justify many injustices in the past, the problem is the middle east hast developed properly, cause the west (powerful) just kept ****ing the entire 3rd world.

    3.there are many people who are originally Christians, Jews and even atheists who get converted to join ISIS, anyone is capable of the psychology

    4. I saw a story on a gang rape, by Christians, I dont use that to genralise them
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    Don't expect ChaoticButterfly to know enough history to distinguish between the average Kurdish Muslim and a Wahabbi/Salafist. :facepalm2:
    and your average person does?

    There are certainly plenty of people who just use the blanket term "Muslim" and the Kurdish Muslims fall under that since they are Muslims. I'm in no way an expert but it just takes a quick Google search to learn that. I don't see what is wrong with pointing out that Muslims are on the front-line fighting ISIS when your average person, who also can't distinguish between a Wahabbi/Salafist, likes to become an expert on the topic.

    Anyway the person I quoted made no such distinction and blamed "Islam's evil". It's fair to point out that "Islam's evil" is producing people who are fighting against ISIS so it isn't as simple is it?

    Instead of making behind my back comments why don't you actually explain why the Wahabbi/Salafist distinction is important? Andy why have you missed out Sunni Muslims?


    (Original post by Daniel9998)
    Yes I am aware of that..the Kurdish people are one of the very few exceptions
    They are still quite a big exception and you can;t just ignore it if you want to paint Islam as being the fundamental problem which is why I pointed it out since you appeared to suspiciously ignore the fact the Kurd are majorly Muslim when listing the Muslim factions. What is it about the Kurdish YPG (which is also very feminist in contrast to ISIS that stones women to death for being raped) that means they are actively fighting against and resisting ISIS and it's attempt to create their Islamic state?
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    They are still quite a big exception and you can;t just ignore it if you want to paint Islam as being the fundamental problem which is why I pointed it out since you appeared to suspiciously ignore the fact the Kurd are majorly Muslim when listing the Muslim factions. What is it about the Kurdish YPG (which is also very feminist in contrast to ISIS that stones women to death for being raped) that means they are actively fighting against and resisting ISIS and it's attempt to create their Islamic state?
    shall I repeat myself? The Islamic countries or if you want me to rephrase it, the majority of Islamic countries are the ones that should be blamed for the rise of these terrorists and the killings and destruction that occurs in the middle east time after time. And yes the Kurds are one of the few exceptions, whether big or small.
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    You lot do know the current Government, of PK, paid to have his wife assassinated. And they claimed a few months they killed off all the Taliban, my arse
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    (Original post by Thisguy11)
    1. The targets were CHRISTIANS so thats why this was in the news, many attacks happen targetting MUSLIMS and they dont get a decent mention

    2. Christianity has been used to justify many injustices in the past, the problem is the middle east hast developed properly, cause the west (powerful) just kept ****ing the entire 3rd world.

    3.there are many people who are originally Christians, Jews and even atheists who get converted to join ISIS, anyone is capable of the psychology

    4. I saw a story on a gang rape, by Christians, I dont use that to genralise them
    They were mentioned because they were directly targeted, as aforementioned by the Taliban themselves Dont let religion become a boundary between two people, we're all human.
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    (Original post by mil88)
    Ha, target christians and kills muslims... Good one

    Actually, I was raising the point that how can this have been an Islamic attack when both victim and criminal were indeed Muslim? The user replied with killing infidels and then I probed him on this, then he ignored my point and quoted irrelevant verses of the Quran.

    It seems you didn't understand my simple point. The Quran states that the belivers are brothers, and thus a Muslim killing another Muslim is clearly breaching and violating this verse. Hence, the criminals didn't act Islamically.

    The point that you raised about shia and sunni isn't proving anything (also, are you aware who the 'victim sect' is out of the both?)

    That's great news about the caliphs and all, but it just informed me of you apparent lack of understanding of Islam. The notion of the caliphs isn't a ubiquitous belief of all sects and thus that's irrelevant. I dare and ask for your evidence for you final and bold claim.
    all (major) sects accept , and have put in place in history, their own forms of caliphate. as we have seen both mohammeds regin and those of caliphates all saw much bloody war and killings . islam is no panecea for this
    i thnk the islamist of Jamaat ul-Ahrar confirmed now they were indeed trying to target christians. whether they kill muslims or non muslims is essentially inconsequential - they are killing people under their islamist agendas, which is the cruz of the problem. your apologist attitude of consistently trying to re-direct away from the doctirne that drives them is neither helpful nor accepted. deal with the root cause of the problem , dont apologise for it.
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    (Original post by Oblivion99)
    You lot do know the current Government, of PK, paid to have his wife assassinated. And they claimed a few months they killed off all the Taliban, my arse
    Whose wife? The current prime ministers wife is still alive
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    (Original post by mil88)
    I never negated that. I said that they're acts are not Islamic.
    and so , when mohammed had men women and children ( and captives) killed - he was acting unislamically? and what about the caliphs
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    (Original post by Reformed)
    and so , when mohammed had men women and children ( and captives) killed - he was acting unislamically? and what about the caliphs



    INB4 "Context"
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    (Original post by Lord Samosa)
    Whose wife? The current prime ministers wife is still alive
    He's probs on about Benazir Bhutto. He probably thinks the government is still PPP.
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    (Original post by Reformed)
    and so , when mohammed had men women and children ( and captives) killed - he was acting unislamically? and what about the caliphs
    Firstly, I would like evidence of this claim.

    I'm not sure why you have raised the issue of the caliphs, when they aren't even agreed on by all muslims (some sects reject them)
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    (Original post by mil88)
    Firstly, I would like evidence of this claim.

    I'm not sure why you have raised the issue of the caliphs, when they aren't even agreed on by all muslims (some sects reject them)



    “I said (would you attack) my prisoners? But... The people formed a ring around us as I was protecting him. Then a man drew his sword and cut off his son’s foot so that he fell down and Umayya [the boy’s father] let out a cry such as I have never heard… They hewed them to pieces with their swords until they were dead.” (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 449)


    Mu’awwidh passed Abu Jahl as he lay there helpless and smote him until he left him at his last gasp. (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 451)Another Muslim named Abdullah then came by and put his foot on Abu Jahl’s neck and taunted him before decapitating him:
    Then I cut off his head and brought it to the apostle saying, “This is the head of the enemy of Allah, Abu Jahl.”… I threw his head before the apostle and he gave thanks to Allah. (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 451).

    “When the apostle ordered him to be killed, Uqba said, “But who will look after my children, O Muhammad?” [Muhammad’s reply] “Hell.” The man was put to death. (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 458)
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    (Original post by Reformed)
    all (major) sects accept , and have put in place in history, their own forms of caliphate. as we have seen both mohammeds regin and those of caliphates all saw much bloody war and killings . islam is no panecea for this
    i thnk the islamist of Jamaat ul-Ahrar confirmed now they were indeed trying to target christians. whether they kill muslims or non muslims is essentially inconsequential - they are killing people under their islamist agendas, which is the cruz of the problem. your apologist attitude of consistently trying to re-direct away from the doctirne that drives them is neither helpful nor accepted. deal with the root cause of the problem , dont apologise for it.
    What do you mean by 'major sects', give some examples.

    I disagree, although the intention of the attack is important to an extent, the actual victims have great importance and for this instance, killing other muslims is un islamic.

    Can I ask of which 'doctrine' you speak of that drives them, and the relevance of this to the religion itself.

    I know a lot about the root cause of these problems, and by accusing the religion, in my view, is not right.

    I don't think I have ever apologized for anything on this thread.
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    (Original post by Dodgypirate)
    Calling me ignorant now are we. This discussion is close.
    Well seeing as you haven't actually responded or attempted to refute my answer leaves me to believe that my assertion is likely to be correct.

    Also, I have never called you ignorant, I said 'if'. I'm sure you would agree that there's an difference.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Who are majority Muslims. Funny how that gets left out when people want to paint them as the good guys fighting ISIS. Muslims can;t be good guys evidently.
    Given that the Kurds are actually doing something against that lot, one can be forgiven for forgetting that they're Muslim.
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    (Original post by wdkmwd)
    “I said (would you attack) my prisoners? But... The people formed a ring around us as I was protecting him. Then a man drew his sword and cut off his son’s foot so that he fell down and Umayya [the boy’s father] let out a cry such as I have never heard… They hewed them to pieces with their swords until they were dead.” (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 449)


    Mu’awwidh passed Abu Jahl as he lay there helpless and smote him until he left him at his last gasp. (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 451)Another Muslim named Abdullah then came by and put his foot on Abu Jahl’s neck and taunted him before decapitating him:
    Then I cut off his head and brought it to the apostle saying, “This is the head of the enemy of Allah, Abu Jahl.”… I threw his head before the apostle and he gave thanks to Allah. (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 451).

    “When the apostle ordered him to be killed, Uqba said, “But who will look after my children, O Muhammad?” [Muhammad’s reply] “Hell.” The man was put to death. (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 458)
    Okay, nice to know that you have quotes from only 1 sect of the religion. Can you provide reliable evidence from different sects as well? (To prove that this issue is with the religion, not just with 1 sect).
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    (Original post by mil88)
    Okay, nice to know that you have quotes from only 1 sect of the religion. Can you provide reliable evidence from different sects as well? (To prove that this issue is with the religion, not just with 1 sect).


    The hell are you getting this "sects" garbage from?

    Muhammed himself said that the best and most ideal generations of muslims were the first 3 generations of muslims, so all this garbage double talk about sects should be saved for the birds.
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    don't they ever get bored of that old cliche? blowing yourself up is so 2001
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    (Original post by AlmightyJesus)
    don't they ever get bored of that old cliche? blowing yourself up is so 2001


    Tell me about it.
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    (Original post by KimKallstrom)
    Given that the Kurds are actually doing something against that lot, one can be forgiven for forgetting that they're Muslim.
    So the people "actually do something against that lot" are Muslims.... What is everyone else doing? Instead of being all keyboard warrior condemning Muslims everywhere why don't people go over and volenteer and help the Kurdish Muslims fighting ISIS?

    If you are someone that likes simplistic world views and wants to just blame the evil Muslims sure youcan be forgiven. As well as helping give ISIS and other Islamists free propaganda.

    Do you also forget about the Muslims in the FSA that are in the US lead anti ISIS coalition? I donl;t see why we should forgive pig ignorance tbo nor is it something to be proud of.

    Thanks for bolstering my point though

    (Original post by wdkmwd)
    The hell are you getting this "sects" garbage from?Muhammed himself said that the best and most ideal generations of muslims were the first 3 generations of muslims, so all this garbage double talk about sects should be saved for the birds.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sect

    The ancient schools of Islamic jurisprudence or Islamic law in Islam are known as "madh'habs." In the beginning Islam was classically divided into three major sects. These political divisions are well known as Sunni, Shi'a and Kharijites. Each sect developed several distinct jurisprudence systems reflecting their own understanding of the Islamic law during the course of thehistory of Islam.
 
 
 
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