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50 people dead in Pakistan after ISLAMIC terror attack watch

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    (Original post by Z-Zinan)
    Just Oblivious in the Grime society if that's all your little mind can contribute to this thread.
    Oh, look who's talking!
    Let's just wait for your fourth account at any moment!:laugh:
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    (Original post by mil88)
    Yeah, that doesn't mean that they're not Muslim does it. As long as you believe in oneness of God and Prophet Muhamad then you are Muslim. Stop trying to justify their intentions of this attack.

    Hence, my point of them not following that verse and hence, not islamic


    They didn't follow that verse but they certainly followed these ones


    Qur’an 9:28—O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.

    Qur’an 9:29—Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

    Qur’an 9:30—The Jews call Uzair a son of God, and the Christians call Christ the son of God. That is a saying from their mouth; (In this) they but imitate what the Unbelievers of old used to say. Allah’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!
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    (Original post by PrincessZara)
    ISIS bomb mosques so how does it make them Muslims
    They do it in the Name of Allah Akbhar- well thats what they all seem to shout when there finger is on the detonation button
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    (Original post by FluffyCherry)
    Oh, look who's talking!
    Let's just wait for your fourth account at any moment!:laugh:


    I'll also wait for the next Islamic act of terror in the name of Allah.


    Which by the looks of things could be anytime now.
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    (Original post by mil88)
    Yeah, that doesn't mean that they're not Muslim does it. As long as you believe in oneness of God and Prophet Muhamad then you are Muslim. Stop trying to justify their intentions of this attack.
    Exactly, so the terrorists are Muslim.
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    (Original post by Z-Zinan)
    No defense, just rubbish come backs.


    You don;t even know your own Qur'an.


    You book isn;t order properly, the final verse revealed was surah 9.

    Why then is the final verse the most violent, when Islam also says that later verses abrogate the earlier verses?
    When you give rubbish what do you expect in return.

    You're entitled to you opinion.

    Your making assumptions that it was meant to be ordered chronologically. Sorry mate, I think you are the one in excess ignorance, the Quran was purposely ordered this way as it's not a simple book of history, it was revealed as per events. Hence the requirement of context when discussing the Quran.

    The surah is about a treaty made between muslims and polytheists, and when the polytheists broke the treaty by killing some of the Muslims, God revealed this chapter down. If you're going to comment on this chapter, please read it first.
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    (Original post by Farm_Ecology)
    Exactly, so the terrorists are Muslim.
    I never negated that. I said that they're acts are not Islamic.
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    (Original post by Z-Zinan)
    UK/Europe?


    What?????

    Right 3 countries, completely ignoring, Syria, Egypt, Saudi arabia, Iraq etc
    Iran?
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    (Original post by Z-Zinan)
    I'll also wait for the next Islamic act of terror in the name of Allah.


    Which by the looks of things could be anytime now.
    Oh, so now you're saying that YOU'RE LOOKING FORWARD TO THEM..

    Well THAT says a lot about you!
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    (Original post by Z-Zinan)
    They didn't follow that verse but they certainly followed these ones


    Qur’an 9:28—O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.

    Qur’an 9:29—Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

    Qur’an 9:30—The Jews call Uzair a son of God, and the Christians call Christ the son of God. That is a saying from their mouth; (In this) they but imitate what the Unbelievers of old used to say. Allah’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!
    Ha, thank you for admitting that they didn't follow this verse and thus the act was not Islamic.

    I rest my case.
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    (Original post by FluffyCherry)
    that are all out of context
    Hi there,

    Would you be kind enough to put them into conext for us all to see?

    I'm really struggling to see how "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" is supposed to mean nice things! :cry2:

    or

    "do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends" - why can't a Muslim take them for friends? Does this mean something else?

    To the simple Kuffir, it really sounds like violence is being encouraged!

    Thanks!
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    (Original post by mil88)
    I never negated that. I said that they're acts are not Islamic.
    I see what you mean now. You're right.
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    (Original post by mil88)
    I've had this discussion before and am beginning to find this tedious now. But anyway, do you mind showing me this verse.

    So are you saying that these victim muslims weren't actually muslim and that they were infidels? On what basis are you making this assumption? So the ones that are contradicting the Quran are apparently Muslim... Good one.
    "Combat is only ordered against those who are attacking or killing the innocent Muslims or fighting against the established Muslim state."

    Website denying the Koran orders to murder infidels.

    So the Koran tells Muslims to 'combat' (i.e kill) those who attack innocent Muslims and the 'established Muslim state' (IS - to Daesh).

    Doesn't that mean Daesh are following the principles of the Koran if they are fighting those who are attacking the ISLAMIC State??



    Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by historical context contained in the surrounding text (although many Muslims choose to think of them that way). They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subject to interpretation as anything else in the Quran.
    The context of violent passages is more ambiguous than might be expected of a perfect book from a loving God. Most contemporary Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy book's call to arms according to their own moral preconceptions about justifiable violence. Their apologists cater to these preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny. Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.

    Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...
    but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"
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    (Original post by NeoconZionist)
    Hi there,
    (Original post by NeoconZionist)

    Would you be kind enough to put them into conext for us all to see?

    I'm really struggling to see how "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" is supposed to mean nice things! :cry2:

    or

    "do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends" - why can't a Muslim take them for friends? Does this mean something else?

    To the simple Kuffir, it really sounds like violence is being encouraged!

    Thanks!
    Is that an exact quote from their bible?
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    (Original post by Z-Zinan)
    I've told you this a trillion times.


    You keep spamming me with this garbage straw man argument.


    God originally was strict to the world and the people of Israel, but after the birth of Jesus christ he entered into a new covenant, abolishing the old law of moses, except the everlasting laws like the 10 commandments

    Psalm 111:7-8 - (10 commandments are forever)Hebrews 8 1:13 (New covenant)
    Dude you're the one giving the lame responses.

    Ok so answer this: So far, I can gather the main responses you're using are: God works in mysterious ways and is also 'just'. So if the Qur'an also allows killing innocent individuals (which I believe it doesn't but let's say it does), just like the Christian God commanded in the old testament, then can I not use the same arguments you are using but in the justification of the killings of ISIS?
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    (Original post by Dodgypirate)
    "Combat is only ordered against those who are attacking or killing the innocent Muslims or fighting against the established Muslim state."

    Website denying the Koran orders to murder infidels.

    So the Koran tells Muslims to 'combat' (i.e kill) those who attack innocent Muslims and the 'established Muslim state' (IS - to Daesh).

    Doesn't that mean Daesh are following the principles of the Koran if they are fighting those who are attacking the ISLAMIC State??



    Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by historical context contained in the surrounding text (although many Muslims choose to think of them that way). They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subject to interpretation as anything else in the Quran.
    The context of violent passages is more ambiguous than might be expected of a perfect book from a loving God. Most contemporary Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy book's call to arms according to their own moral preconceptions about justifiable violence. Their apologists cater to these preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny. Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.

    Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...
    but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"
    I will come back to your first 2 points later (busy at the moment)

    However, I would like point out clear errors in your quote and how you or whoever translated this is trying to add their own motive in. Fitnah doesn't mean disbelief, it means rebellion or conflict (I am aware that you said unrest but the part about disbelief is incorrect). It's actually quite amusing as you've used fitnah twice and gave different meanings. Your second fitnah has the incorrect meanings as well.

    Also, at the end, where it says 'let there be no transgression except against Zalimun', the meaning of the word is incorrect, once again. Zalimun means the 'oppressor' or the one who 'oppresses' others, it certainly doesn't mean polytheists.

    Once again, people trying to change the meaning of words to their own perceptions of Islam.
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    (Original post by mil88)
    I will come back to your first 2 points later (busy at the moment)

    However, I would like point out clear errors in your quote and how you or whoever translated this is trying to add their own motive in. Fitnah doesn't mean disbelief, it means rebellion or conflict (I am aware that you said unrest but the part about disbelief is incorrect). It's actually quite amusing as you've used fitnah twice and gave different meanings. Your second fitnah has the incorrect meanings as well.

    Also, at the end, where it says 'let there be no transgression except against Zalimun', the meaning of the word is incorrect, once again. Zalimun means the 'oppressor' or the one who 'oppresses' others, it certainly doesn't mean polytheists.

    Once again, people trying to change the meaning of words to their own perceptions of Islam.
    That's because the whole bloody book is ambigious as **** and open to all perceptions - bad of good.

    You might think this is a "peaceful" passage, but others (ISIS) take it literally and murder innocent people.

    This is exactly why the Koran is the most violent book in history... more so than Mein Kampf
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    (Original post by NeoconZionist)
    Hi there,

    Would you be kind enough to put them into conext for us all to see?

    I'm really struggling to see how "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" is supposed to mean nice things! :cry2:

    or

    "do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends" - why can't a Muslim take them for friends? Does this mean something else?

    To the simple Kuffir, it really sounds like violence is being encouraged!

    Thanks!

    Hey!!
    The above passage was revealed at the battle of Badr.

    A battle in which the disbelievers (Pagans) of Makkah travelled 100s of miles to kill Muslims in Madinah. The pagans had 1000 soldiers ,while the Muslims all they could gather to fight back in defence, they had only 300 soldiers. Even though Prophet Muhammad (p) had left Makkah to find peace for its community without being persecuted, oppressed, they once again were trying to terrorise the Muslim community.

    Let’s read from verses 8:9 to 8:19,
    • 8:9 [Remember] when you asked help of your Lord, and He answered you, “Indeed, I will reinforce you with a thousand from the angels, following one another.”8:10 And Allah made it not but good tidings and so that your hearts would be assured thereby. And victory is not but from Allah . Indeed, Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise.
    • 8:11 [Remember] when He overwhelmed you with drowsiness [giving] security from Him and sent down upon you from the sky, rain by which to purify you and remove from you the evil [suggestions] of Satan and to make steadfast your hearts and plant firmly thereby your feet.
    • 8:12 [Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, “I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip.”8:13 That is because they opposed Allah and His Messenger. And whoever opposes Allah and His Messenger – indeed, Allah is severe in penalty.
    • 8:14 “That [is yours], so taste it.” And indeed for the disbelievers is the punishment of the Fire.8:15 O you who have believed, when you meet those who disbelieve advancing [for battle], do not turn to them your backs [in flight].
    • 8:16 And whoever turns his back to them on such a day, unless swerving [as a strategy] for war or joining [another] company, has certainly returned with anger [upon him] from Allah , and his refuge is Hell – and wretched is the destination.
    • 8:17 And you did not kill them, but it was Allah who killed them. And you threw not, [O Muhammad], when you threw, but it was Allah who threw that He might test the believers with a good test. Indeed, Allah is Hearing and Knowing.
    • 8:18 That [is so], and [also] that Allah will weaken the plot of the disbelievers.
    • 8:19 If you [disbelievers] seek the victory – the defeat has come to you. And if you desist [from hostilities], it is best for you; but if you return [to war], We will return, and never will you be availed by your [large] company at all, even if it should increase; and [that is] because Allah is with the believers.
    When we read the verses before and after, we get a clear picture that this was a BATTLE. The killing that is mentioned in Q. 8:12 is on the battlefield, which took place 1400 years ago.

    When we read 8:17 it says, that it was not Muhammed (or the companions) who killed the enemy, but it was Him (God) who had done so.

    Furthermore, 8:19 offers peace to the enemy, if the enemy desist from hostilities against Muslims,8:19 If you [disbelievers] seek the victory – the defeat has come to you.

    And if you desist [from hostilities], it is best for you; but if you return [to war], We will return, and never will you be availed by your [large] company at all, even if it should increase; and [that is] because Allah is with the believers.

    When we get to read the verses in its context, does it promote killing of innocents? The answer is NO!
    Even when Muslims were being persecuted by the mighty army of Quraish, God Almighty encouraged Muslims to offer peace if they, the enemy stopped hostilities against them (Muslims).

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    (Original post by NeoconZionist)
    "do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends" - why can't a Muslim take them for friends? Does this mean something else?
    If we look at the context of the verse, we see that it refers to the lifetime of the Prophet Muhammad [PBUH] when Jews and Christians were at war with Muslims.If you consider enemies at war with each other, it makes perfect sense to discourage friendships between them because of that situation. Even so, the subsequent verses 58 and 59 clarify the reasons for discouraging friendships with Jews and Christians of that time, who used to make fun of Muslims for adhering to their faith.

    (5:58)O ye who believe! take not those for friends who make a jest and sport of your religion from among those who were given the Book before you, and the disbelievers. And fear Allah if you are believers
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    (Original post by Dodgypirate)
    That's because the whole bloody book is ambigious as **** and open to all perceptions - bad of good.

    You might think this is a "peaceful" passage, but others (ISIS) take it literally and murder innocent people.

    This is exactly why the Koran is the most violent book in history... more so than Mein Kampf
    If you lack understanding of the religion, then don't accuse the religion please.

    Firstly, I hope you realise that translations =/= interpretations or ambiguity. That's your problem for copying and pasting quotes without prior knowledge.

    Islam is not open to all interpretations, what you have to realise is that it set out to prevent this, but however what you and many others define as 'Islam' isn't an religion, rather just 1 sect which you believe to be religion. Hence, the confusion.
    The only correct and true interpretation of the Quran was given to Prophets (to preach and spread) and finally when it came to the final messenger, Prophet Muhammad, He gave it to his pure descendants. Now, if many people chose not to follow these descendants and gave their own opinions, don't blame the religion, blame them.
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    (Original post by Z-Zinan)
    LOL, you got the wrong person mate.


    I have studied ALL your islamic literature, the hadiths, the tafsirs, the Qur'an and it's safe to say that the historical context behind those violent verses just paints Islam in a much much violent light.


    You want to deny the fact that during muhammed's early revelations he preached peaceful and tolerant surah's but as soon as he had control over mecca he was sent down Surah 9? The final major chapter in the Qur'an which also oddly enough happens to be the most violent?
    damn you can read arabic? you've read the entire quran? and you even know every single hadith? damn bro please teach me everything I'll even pay u for lessons
    Spoiler:
    Show
    googling a few verses of the quran doesn't mean you have studied it u dipshit lmfao
 
 
 
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