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Donald Trump says UK and Europe are not safe places following Brussels attacks watch

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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    The emboldened line is a downright lie and an insult to anyone who has eyes.
    Anyone who practices more religiously (if you'll excuse the pun) would take that exact view. You've told me that what I said is 'a downright lie', so please explain which part of my reasoning is wrong in the eyes of Islam. Because it is a fact that Muslims believe that the Qur'an is Allah's word in it's most complete and pure form. From this it follows that to then suggest that the Qur'an is wrong on something is to commit takfir, as you are claiming to be wiser than Allah. So unless you can explain in what way I'm lying, your comment is nothing more than slander.

    Also, if you could be so kind as to present me a quote from the Qur'an or Hadith which says that they are only to be taken in the context of their time I would be grateful, cause I'm unawares of such. And it'd seem like if this was meant to be the case, surely Allah would have said so, being all-knowing and all?
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    (Original post by Luke Kostanjsek)
    Anyone who practices more religiously (if you'll excuse the pun) would take that exact view. You've told me that what I said is 'a downright lie', so please explain which part of my reasoning is wrong in the eyes of Islam. Because it is a fact that Muslims believe that the Qur'an is Allah's word in it's most complete and pure form. From this it follows that to then suggest that the Qur'an is wrong on something is to commit takfir, as you are claiming to be wiser than Allah. So unless you can explain in what way I'm lying, your comment is nothing more than slander.

    Also, if you could be so kind as to present me a quote from the Qur'an or Hadith which says that they are only to be taken in the context of their time I would be grateful, cause I'm unawares of such. And it'd seem like if this was meant to be the case, surely Allah would have said so, being all-knowing and all?
    Because Muslims today no longer follow the Quran to the word, they acknowledge that it is 1.5 millennia old and that it should be adjusted to fit a 21st century world.
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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    Because Muslims today no longer follow the Quran to the word, they acknowledge that it is 1.5 millennia old and that it should be adjusted to fit a 21st century world.
    You don't seem to be listening to what I say. The Qur'an is fundamentally different to most other religious texts. It is defined as being Allah's word in it's most correct and perfect form. For you to say 'well it doesn't apply any more' is to say that the Qur'an is not perfect, which directly contradicts the very basis of the Islamic faith.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...What-is-Takfir

    The important bit being:

    'Takfir is an Arabic word that literally means "pronouncement of unbelief against someone," and can be translated as "excommunication."

    'Takfir is the notion that an unbeliever, even a Muslim, may be excommunicated the moment that individual does not follow Sharia, or Islamic law, in its strictest sense. Merely fulfilling Islam's five pillars isn't enough, and may well be a cover for otherwise un-Islamic behavior if the individual is still susceptible to Western, Christian, Jewish, "Zionist" influences.'

    And these quotes from the Qur'an rather suggest your claim that Muslims aren't expected to follow its messages any more are bull:

    "And whoever contradicts and opposes the Messenger after the right path has been shown clearly to him, and follows other than the believers' way, We shall keep him in the path he has chosen, and burn him in Hell - what an evil destination!" [al-Nisa 4:115]
    "And Allah will never lead a people astray after He has guided them until He makes clear to them as to what they should avoid. Verily, Allah is the All-Knower of everything" [al-Tawbah 9:115]
    Don't suppose you've found any sources yet, to ratify anything that you're claiming? Specifically any source which justifies your assertion that Muslims aren't meant to follow the word of the Qur'an any more?
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    (Original post by Luke Kostanjsek)
    You don't seem to be listening to what I say. The Qur'an is fundamentally different to most other religious texts. It is defined as being Allah's word in it's most correct and perfect form. For you to say 'well it doesn't apply any more' is to say that the Qur'an is not perfect, which directly contradicts the very basis of the Islamic faith.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...What-is-Takfir

    The important bit being:

    'Takfir is an Arabic word that literally means "pronouncement of unbelief against someone," and can be translated as "excommunication."

    'Takfir is the notion that an unbeliever, even a Muslim, may be excommunicated the moment that individual does not follow Sharia, or Islamic law, in its strictest sense. Merely fulfilling Islam's five pillars isn't enough, and may well be a cover for otherwise un-Islamic behavior if the individual is still susceptible to Western, Christian, Jewish, "Zionist" influences.'

    And these quotes from the Qur'an rather suggest your claim that Muslims aren't expected to follow its messages any more are bull:

    "And whoever contradicts and opposes the Messenger after the right path has been shown clearly to him, and follows other than the believers' way, We shall keep him in the path he has chosen, and burn him in Hell - what an evil destination!" [al-Nisa 4:115]
    "And Allah will never lead a people astray after He has guided them until He makes clear to them as to what they should avoid. Verily, Allah is the All-Knower of everything" [al-Tawbah 9:115]
    Don't suppose you've found any sources yet, to ratify anything that you're claiming? Specifically any source which justifies your assertion that Muslims aren't meant to follow the word of the Qur'an any more?
    I don't need a source to tell you that Muslims don't follow the Quran word-by-word anymore. There are thousands of Muslims in the UK who are living peacefully and not killing anyone who opposes Islam.

    And you must have missed / ignored my original point.

    The Quran is 1.5 millennia old, Muslims acknowledge that an ancient scripture cannot dictate fully how to live your life in the 21st century.
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    Not for him that's for sure
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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    I don't need a source to tell you that Muslims don't follow the Quran word-by-word anymore. There are thousands of Muslims in the UK who are living peacefully and not killing anyone who opposes Islam.

    And you must have missed / ignored my original point.

    The Quran is 1.5 millennia old, Muslims acknowledge that an ancient scripture cannot dictate fully how to live your life in the 21st century.


    Change that to YOU acknowledge that an ancient scripture cannot dictate fully how to live your life in the 21st century, not Muslims because Muslims know that according to them, the Qur'an is the word of allah, If it truly is the word of god, then it has to be eternal, uncreated and timeless.


    Stop talking rubbish PLEASE.
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    Now, tell me Mr Trump, how many people were killed by guns in the US this year?
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    (Original post by wdkmwd)
    Change that to YOU acknowledge that an ancient scripture cannot dictate fully how to live your life in the 21st century, not Muslims because Muslims know that according to them, the Qur'an is the word of allah, If it truly is the word of god, then it has to be eternal, uncreated and timeless.


    Stop talking rubbish PLEASE.
    I have no reason to take your arguments seriously, given your track record.
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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    I have no reason to take your arguments seriously, given your track record.


    My track record?


    You're the moron who everyone knows is clueless about almost everything you say.
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    (Original post by Slutty Salafi)
    If I had a permit, I would wear it like wearing a belt or having my wallet in my pocket and think very little of it.
    I had a concealed carry permit but I never actually bothered carrying a weapon. Too much hassle and I always thought a bit unnecessary. Had one in the glove compartment though. My daughter on the other hand is a walking armory. Along with lipgloss her handbag contains mace, a flick knife, and a pistol. When she says "No" you can guarantee she means it. She'll explain it to anybody that doesn't understand.
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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    I don't need a source to tell you that Muslims don't follow the Quran word-by-word anymore. There are thousands of Muslims in the UK who are living peacefully and not killing anyone who opposes Islam.

    And you must have missed / ignored my original point.

    The Quran is 1.5 millennia old, Muslims acknowledge that an ancient scripture cannot dictate fully how to live your life in the 21st century.
    I didn't say that they did. You originally said that anyone who skim-read the Qur'an would know that ISIS are not following Islam (I'm paraphrasing). So if we're agreed that nowhere in the Qur'an or Hadith does it say Muslims should stop taking it literally after x years, and we're agreed that a justification for everything that ISIS do can be found in the Qur'an or Hadith, then your original statement is indeed *******s.

    QED
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    (Original post by wdkmwd)
    My track record?


    You're the moron who everyone knows is clueless about almost everything you say.
    and you're still a troll, doesn't it get boring?
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    (Original post by Luke Kostanjsek)
    I didn't say that they did. You originally said that anyone who skim-read the Qur'an would know that ISIS are not following Islam (I'm paraphrasing). So if we're agreed that nowhere in the Qur'an or Hadith does it say Muslims should stop taking it literally after x years, and we're agreed that a justification for everything that ISIS do can be found in the Qur'an or Hadith, then your original statement is indeed *******s.

    QED
    So your argument is basically that all Muslims follow the Quran word-to-word because it doesn't say anywhere in the Quran that they can stop?

    What?

    And stop avoiding the fact that many of ISIL's actions are in direct violation with the Quran.
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    (Original post by barnetlad)
    Now, tell me Mr Trump, how many people were killed by guns in the US this year?
    About 30,000 seems to be an annual constant. Although about 15,000 of those are suicides and another 1000 are accidental deaths and another 1000 are deaths caused by cops killing bad guys. I should think of the remaining 13,000, 10,000 are bad guys killing bad guys (gang related) leaving about 3000 of actual murders that anybody cares about.

    None of which is relevant because Trump is talking about terrorism.
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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    So your argument is basically that all Muslims follow the Quran word-to-word because it doesn't say anywhere in the Quran that they can stop?

    What?

    And stop avoiding the fact that many of ISIL's actions are in direct violation with the Quran.


    You're not making any sense.

    For every peaceful verse in the Quran, there are about 5 violent ones to go with it, so this nonsense about ISIS going against the teachings of the Qur'an when there are over 100 verses that says muslims should fight, kill, embarrass and subjugate non-believers shows why you're an ignorant troll.
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    (Original post by wdkmwd)
    Right.

    I'm the troll, yet you're the retard with over 550 posts but only 4 followers and 2 badges.
    ouch im so hurt
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    Trump will
    Sort it out! Trust me the guy is a legend he makes such funny comments and you have to admit it would be a rags to riches story if he gets in the White House!!!
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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    So your argument is basically that all Muslims follow the Quran word-to-word because it doesn't say anywhere in the Quran that they can stop?

    What?

    And stop avoiding the fact that many of ISIL's actions are in direct violation with the Quran.
    My argument is that if everything ISIS is doing can find justification in the Qur'an, you can't say that they aren't Muslims as they are by definition doing what Muslims are meant to do, following Allah's word. I didn't say all Muslims follow the Qur'an word by word, I said that some do, and that those that do can't be accused of being 'not Muslims'.

    I suggest you read my post about ISIS and the structure of a caliphate. ISIS cannot do anything that is in violation of the Qur'an. The moment they do, the caliphate collapses. The very structure of a caliphate dictates that if the caliph does something which contravenes the Qur'an, he must change it once told, else he loses all authority and will be replaced. No ifs, no buts. They have no choice but to do what the Qur'an dictates.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Are you Texan by any chance?
    Nah. Floridian. (Imported though - like just about everybody else!)
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    (Original post by Luke Kostanjsek)
    My argument is that if everything ISIS is doing can find justification in the Qur'an, you can't say that they aren't Muslims as they are by definition doing what Muslims are meant to do, following Allah's word. I didn't say all Muslims follow the Qur'an word by word, I said that some do, and that those that do can't be accused of being 'not Muslims'.

    I suggest you read my post about ISIS and the structure of a caliphate. ISIS cannot do anything that is in violation of the Qur'an. The moment they do, the caliphate collapses. The very structure of a caliphate dictates that if the caliph does something which contravenes the Qur'an, he must change it once told, else he loses all authority and will be replaced. No ifs, no buts. They have no choice but to do what the Qur'an dictates.
    Quit overcomplicating this.

    ISIS kills female hostages, which is condemned by the Quran.

    ISIS kill non-combatants, which is condemned by the Quran.

    ISIS uses terror as a political tool, which is condemned by the Quran.

    What more do you need?
 
 
 
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